Man that IS a lot of guilt Eric. You probably feel guilty cuz ur name is not even Jewish! More Norse god, how lucky are you?

Mark , I guess what I am trying to convay oi vay is trying to parse out the difference between likely more gay and more likely a man having sex with men as a pattern of repeating the CSA.

The guilt I had was at first both having sex with men ( it didn't matter who) which made me feel dirty and ashamed cuz the down low is not a happy neighborhood AND the guilt from betraying the person I love - my wife.

Once that guy kissed me and I felt that feeling. Once I realized I was no longer checking the babes out but strictly looking at the guys, I felt less guilt for being gay but still guilty for not having the guts at the point of epiphany to be honest with my wife. I tried to push it even farther down, drink more, take risks. I didnt want to be gay. It was the lowest point in my life, I barely survived. I didn't want to hurt her or my kids but acting the way I did was doing exactly that. I pushed everyone away.

When I finally had the courage to tell the truth ( thank you Theo Fluery- ) it made all the difference in the world.

I attended SA , AA , group for survivors and the Wor. Now there is no longer guilt or shame or anguish. Just a loving guy who dotes on his kids, is truly friends with his ex ( cuz I love her still on some level ) and now Has a Fabulous bf. lol. My kids and ex think he is awesome too. I will always carry that pang of deep regret over betraying my ex, but as my psychiatrist said " my behavior couldnt be justified but it certinainly can be explained. ". Living in secrets all those years made not living in secrets for the rest of my life next to impossible.

We all come to it in our owe time.

I was trying to help Optimus see that you can change your paradigm.

Men who are not gay are deeply disturbed by the SSA. When they fantasize or dream or about another man, it is generally not pleasant. They feel guilty for even thinking it. Not to minimize it , but more analogous to a stupid jingle or pop song that won't leave your head.

But if the fantasy is pleasant and the guilt comes from outside, then it more likely goes to your orientation and true self.

I hope that makes more sense, and again as Eric said its not that simplistic, there is no formula. I just hate to see suffering where there has already been so much.

The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011