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#466399 - 06/09/14 01:05 PM confused trying to understand interactions with
Judith Offline


Registered: 05/08/14
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
Hi

Seeking feedback...

For women who are healing from sexual abuse will reach out and talk about things to heal and need to. Any person needs to talk about things to heal. Even on stuff that has nothing to do with the abuse.
See Sexual healing By Wendy Maltz.

My experience with both male and female before join this forum is that they wanted to heal and talk in order to heal. I have seen it benefit both male and female who are survivors of sexual abuse and or spouses of. besides other factors involved in needing to heal like nonsexual touch-and ones who have mother son issues.

The ones I have talk to that have not experience sexual abuse and ones who have have even in the midst of healing will work on misunderstandings between the person to stay in contact in order to heal.
One male I talk to who not on this forum who has mother son issues was helped by not only talk to me about stuff and his healing etc but also would work with me on misunderstandings we had with each other. Even if It appeared I did something -he still work on it to work it out. Even while working on his stuff.

I hate to make this about male vs female but My observation about my experience on this site is very confusing with a few who have contact me and who have help me with my friend have shared about being afraid to talk as well as how long it took etc.

I know the mother is the one who helps the person to think and work on relationship stuff etc. I have seen that with two other males not from this site who benefit in my talking to them but stayed in the interaction to talk it through even in the mist of what they were working on.

Why are you afraid to talk and what keeps you from talking and why do you want to stay in discomfort and not talk to someone to work it out-with everyone...

I know it cant only be about the abuse but yet it is but what causes you the ones who are male survivors on this forum -any spouses of who have seen this -or is it?

why is it that you struggle to work through something that needs to be talk about when even while your healing etc. ...

I know some survivors not on this forum that have had to press through the misunderstandings to talk about the things to make a relationship work in order to be helped

Did any of you experience this and how did you resolve it etc? or did you?

is it a guy thing or a male survivor guy thing-I have seen this more than once .

Judith




Edited by Judith (06/10/14 07:01 PM)

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#466480 - 06/11/14 10:48 AM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: Judith]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 344
Loc: NY
Judith:

You have some good insight here.

Yes, there are a lot of entanglements that continue on as confusion. People try to talk through it as misunderstandings. Sometimes that helps.

The problem can be, however, that the underlying dynamics may never be directly addressed. To do that requires a lot of hard work and courage.

In my case, my mother and I do try to communicate. Lately we have been working on "misunderstandings". It is helpful. It engages both of us.

Being able to talk to her about this helps reduce the fear. But having her see the overall dynamic directly is to look in the face of some kind of chronic traumatic response to each other.

My guess is that this has to do be done very slowly and consciously. It' easy to race through unpleasant thoughts and feelings. Shame, in particular, tends to create responses that can be briefly debilitating. I think a lot of men struggle with allowing the feeling of shame to be present enough that it does not become too frightening.

I find that to do that requires a lot of patience and self-awareness.

Hope this sheds a little light somewhere on the subject.

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#466506 - 06/11/14 08:54 PM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: Judith]
On The Fringe Offline


Registered: 09/21/13
Posts: 326
Loc: Southeast USA
Sometimes recovery is like breathing, you inhale and exhale. It may take a pause between breaths.

Recovery is not always a linear thing of non stop work. I personally need a break in the battle!

Thanks and best wishes.
_________________________
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.

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#466510 - 06/11/14 09:23 PM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: On The Fringe]
Judith Offline


Registered: 05/08/14
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
Focus:

see responses below yours


Judith:

You have some good insight here.

Yes, there are a lot of entanglements that continue on as confusion. People try to talk through it as misunderstandings. Sometimes that helps.

Judith: Can you give example? How does it help and you?

The problem can be, however, that the underlying dynamics may never be directly addressed. To do that requires a lot of hard work and courage.
In my case, my mother and I do try to communicate. Lately we have been working on "misunderstandings". It is helpful. It engages both of us.

Judith: I agree by the fact of the not talking is what contributes to the lack of not working on the relationship stuff etc. even if the conversation is about stuff that has nothing to do with healing. The question is why would someone mention about use a misunderstanding as not to talk vs healing? Can you give example of misunderstanding and how it is helpful etc? even if it is not about healing and how talk to her has helped you and so on? What you have learned by talking to her etc?

Being able to talk to her about this helps reduce the fear. But having her see the overall dynamic directly is to look in the face of some kind of chronic traumatic response to each other.

Judith: what fear? What would be the traumatic response? The key is I know of one person male who even though in result of his mother keeping him from relationships by talking to me he was learning how to talk to women and helped him with his wife. Not from this forum. We talk about anything include and exclude healing.

My guess is that this has to do be done very slowly and consciously. It' easy to race through unpleasant thoughts and feelings. Shame, in particular, tends to create responses that can be briefly debilitating. I think a lot of men struggle with allowing the feeling of shame to be present enough that it does not become too frightening.

Judith: This I hope doesnt sound odd by my asking but-Can you why you or what kind of unpleasant thoughts and feelings that you would struggle with and to avoid? Why the shame? Its been said talk to a woman is easier than a man so then even when the struggle is with talk to a woman due to mother being a factor in not being able to work through relationships-What would shame be in keeping you from talk through misunderstandings etc ?
What is frightening? Why the fear of what you are referring to here?

I find that to do that requires a lot of patience and self-awareness.

Judith: Can you elaborate on this?

Hope this sheds a little light somewhere on the subject.

Judith: Yes can you add to it?

FB

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#466511 - 06/11/14 09:27 PM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: Judith]
Judith Offline


Registered: 05/08/14
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
Hi

responses below yours

Sometimes recovery is like breathing, you inhale and exhale. It may take a pause between breaths.

Judith: I understand this. But comments are made about the father on this form was just chatting about things that didnt always have anything to do with healing so... But I thought recovery also invovled chatting that didnt involve healing

Recovery is not always a linear thing of non stop work. I personally need a break in the battle!

Judith: I understand this but also being in relationship even if it is not always about work on healing -just being in the relationship and chatting about thigns helps the person to work through relationship stuff even when it is not about anything specific. Due to mothers not given what is need. The key is it doesnt always have to be about topics that need healing in. Like this one father not on this forum just by being in relationship and chat about anything not always related to recovery saw the importance of being in relationship with a woman to see what his mother failed to give him which helped him big time. We talk about anything and was not always about healing stuff.

Thanks and best wishes.

Judith: Understand

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#466517 - 06/11/14 11:17 PM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: Judith]
focusedbody Offline


Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 344
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Judith
Judith: Can you give example? How does it help and you?


I think any kind of talking about problems communicating is good. It builds trust and good faith.

Originally Posted By: Judith
The question is why would someone mention about use a misunderstanding as not to talk vs healing?


If we call what is occurring only a "misunderstanding", it may be avoiding something.

Originally Posted By: Judith
Can you give example of misunderstanding and how it is helpful etc?


I've recently gotten to the point where I can address the fact that my mother and I each think that we are offending one another somehow. We're calling it a "misunderstanding", but it is probably also involves other feelings such as shame.

Originally Posted By: Judith
What you have learned by talking to her etc?


I have learned that she is probably afraid of looking at these things, otherwise she would bring it up. I can also see that she has a different way of dealing with her feelings. That's good in some ways, because I am reminded that we are two different people.

Originally Posted By: Judith
what fear? What would be the traumatic response?


Sexual feelings between a mother and son or within a family are normal. They are not "misunderstandings".

When a parent does not take responsibility for having these feelings, abuse can happen. In both words and actions, verbal and non-verbal, feelings can be communicated in ways that are not only inappropriate but which can cause a child to experience great confusion as they are trying to develop.

This kind of abuse is traumatic. It makes it difficult for a child to regulate his own emotions and creates problems developing in a healthy way, especially sexually.


Originally Posted By: Judith
Judith: This I hope doesnt sound odd by my asking but-Can you why you or what kind of unpleasant thoughts and feelings that you would struggle with and to avoid? Why the shame?


In this situation, shame which is normally felt in a way that is understood and recognized becomes instead an emotion that is not fully felt or processed. It cannot simply be talked through with a friend as one would talk through any other unpleasant experience.

Hence, there is no misunderstanding to simply clear up later in life. Recovery from this kind of abuse requires going through the pain in order to understand and feel what was never experienced. Support from people who care and who are willing to witness it for what it is makes all the difference.

In my case, I have made some progress in letting my mother know that something occurred between us. At times, I hear her natural response to it as calling it a "misunderstanding". Other times, she takes it more seriously.

Yes, I agree that talking is a very good solution, as you have stated elsewhere. In my family, there was not enough of it. It's also important to experience real trust. This comes from sharing true feelings, if possible. Otherwise avoidance, denial and unprocessed shame remain.

Originally Posted By: Judith
Its been said talk to a woman is easier than a man so then even when the struggle is with talk to a woman due to mother being a factor in not being able to work through relationships-What would shame be in keeping you from talk through misunderstandings etc ? What is frightening? Why the fear of what you are referring to here?


In the end, you have to stop dancing around the pain, if you really want to get better. A good friend is someone who listens without getting in the way of that, without questioning what you are feeling.

It sounds like you are trying to be that kind of person, which is great. Be careful not to make too many assumptions about how things should go. Just like women, men can feel strong emotions to the point of being overwhelmed by them. Both men and women can support a survivor in this.

I think when we allow this kind of work to go where it needs to go while someone stands by for comfort and support, progress can be made.

Peace to you,

FB
_________________________
Lose the drama; life is a poem.

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#466531 - 06/12/14 03:47 PM Re: confused trying to understand interactions with [Re: focusedbody]
Judith Offline


Registered: 05/08/14
Posts: 22
Loc: USA
focus B

Responses below yours.

I think any kind of talking about problems communicating is good. It builds trust and good faith.

Judith: Agree. I was thinking of misunderstandings being two different things and can be not always the thing like for example-With the father from another site-mention about how the phone wasnt working and I finally called to find out if that was what was going on -that was to me an initial misunderstanding that I and he needed to work out. Or like for example how I respond about something immaterial in regards to what happen to me and how I come across-not realize it is being received differently-to me that is also a misunderstanding. I understand what you were saying to be a misunderstanding to. So even in the above examples of them being misunderstandings to me and partly to someone else as well -would that be something that would affect your view of being scared to talk even if it had nothing to do wtih healing -When I was saying misunderstandings I was include not only healing from abuse but the above as well.


I've recently gotten to the point where I can address the fact that my mother and I each think that we are offending one another somehow. We're calling it a "misunderstanding", but it is probably also involves other feelings such as shame.

Judith: What keeps you pushing through to talk and even if you stop talking-for whatever reason -is it about something like this or is it about what you are feeling and if so how long. Usually it is good to talk it through even if it is not about healing -I am understanding you to say that it benefits you to talk it through-if you dont why and how long do you go without not talking and why would you?

Sexual feelings between a mother and son or within a family are normal. They are not "misunderstandings".

JUdith; Agreee. It is part of the development of a child to work through those feelings that a child has towards a parent and that is when the parent shows the child how to have healthy sexual boundaries. So would this play into the nonsexual interaction that you are have with your mother in being afraid to have a nonsexual interaction with her and work through stuff etc. Is it more than that etc?

When a parent does not take responsibility for having these feelings, abuse can happen. In both words and actions, verbal and non-verbal, feelings can be communicated in ways that are not only inappropriate but which can cause a child to experience great confusion as they are trying to develop.

Judith; Agreed. So that also does affect how you interact with her when it doesnt involve this and how to talk through subjects that may not have anything to do with healing. ???

This kind of abuse is traumatic. It makes it difficult for a child to regulate his own emotions and creates problems developing in a healthy way, especially sexually.

Judith: Agree so how do you have you seen by talking through the emotions etc by interacting iwth her that has helped you to keep talking vs not even regardless of the subject or not?

In this situation, shame which is normally felt in a way that is understood and recognized becomes instead an emotion that is not fully felt or processed. It cannot simply be talked through with a friend as one would talk through any other unpleasant experience.

Judith: Why? Or what do you mean here etc? if not why? etc

Hence, there is no misunderstanding to simply clear up later in life. Recovery from this kind of abuse requires going through the pain in order to understand and feel what was never experienced. Support from people who care and who are willing to witness it for what it is makes all the difference.

Judith; Going through the pain fo talking even if the subject is not about healing but just chatting-is just the chatting a challenge to when the subject is not about healing from thigns but in the talking is a challenge to because it involves healing-...?

In my case, I have made some progress in letting my mother know that something occurred between us. At times, I hear her natural response to it as calling it a "misunderstanding". Other times, she takes it more seriously.

Judith; WHat is the progress you have made in talking it through and when you didnt why did you delay in talking it through?

Yes, I agree that talking is a very good solution, as you have stated elsewhere. In my family, there was not enough of it. It's also important to experience real trust. This comes from sharing true feelings, if possible. Otherwise avoidance, denial and unprocessed shame remain.

Judith: Why woudl someone not talk it through and share feelings even if the subject is not about healing from the past but about stuff that is about not understanding the other person for what they said and keep talking -but stop talking because of what someone said when they said they would chat about anything that doesnt have to do with healing stuff too? Did that make sense?

It sounds like you are trying to be that kind of person, which is great. Be careful not to make too many assumptions about how things should go. Just like women, men can feel strong emotions to the point of being overwhelmed by them. Both men and women can support a survivor in this.

Judith: How does one support someone when they stop talking about something and not hear the other person when that person is confused about why the stop compared to what they said before-even if it is not always about healing from things.?
Victims with abuse will stop talking because of something someone said and not realize what they said is not about them but ....

I think when we allow this kind of work to go where it needs to go while someone stands by for comfort and support, progress can be made.

Judith: Are you saying this involves when they imply they dont talk because of soemthing you said and did when it was not really about that at all?

Peace to you,

FB

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