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#435582 - 05/23/13 05:23 PM Repeating csa themes in my life
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Being sexually assaulted as a little boy left a false and distorted imprint on the way I perceive God, myself and all others in relation to sex and sexuality. I decided to list a few of the major ones:

1. I can control sex. This includes fantasy, masterbation, porn and cruising. As a child I was forced, but now I am in control.

2. Sex is an indicator of being loved. Personally, I like to call this the "Judas Kiss" as my father was my primary perpetrator.

3. Intensity means intimacy.

4. My sexual behaviors do not affect anyone but myself. I found myself as a child forced to compartmentalize sex and sexuality giving the impression that who I am during a sexual act is not who I am after the sexual act.

5. I was "different" than other people in that consequences of my sexual behavior was not my fault. I saw myself like a domino lined up on end. I was knocked down and I knock down the domino in front of me.

6. God is up there somewhere taking care of His spiritual business while I wander through life like an orphan, having to swallow all the trials and difficulties that life hands me by myself.

These are just a few of the distorted philosophies which have dominated my life. I hope someday as I heal and mature from csa to be able to leave them behind.

Mac

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#435642 - 05/24/13 05:07 AM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
mattheal Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 142
Loc: Ohio
Mac,

Talk about self realization. As I am starting to learn, you have to identify the issues before you can begin to change. Awesome post.
_________________________
It's okay to find the faith to saunter forward
With no fear of shadows spreading where you stand
And you'll breathe easier just knowing
that the worst is all behind you
And the waves that tossed the raft all night
have set you on dry land
- The Mountain Goats - "Never Quite Free"

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#435667 - 05/24/13 04:27 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Hey, thank you Mattheal. I agree and I am so grateful to be working on these things.

I love your "not to brag..." Only those who have been there really understand.

Mac

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#435964 - 05/27/13 11:30 AM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
great post Mac

yup you're right about distorted philosophies, maybe it goes even further. For me, it was finally realizing I had a distorted sense of reality. You are already healing in the simple act of acknowledging the skewed lens you were given. The process has begun, well done.

The only thing I would caution on in point 1. The acts you describe CAN be controlled, but where your mind goes in "fantasy" is not really up to your conscious brain, the thoughts will go where they will. It's what we do with those thoughts that we can influence and control. Whether to heed them or not IS entirely up to us.

I only say that with the hope that you will not beat yourself up too much for merely thinking things, there is no shame in that.

Heal well Mac you already sound pretty mature to me.

grant
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#435994 - 05/27/13 04:28 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Thank you for the post 1lifenow.

I should change #1 to read: I can control lust.

I came to this conclusion after I joined sexaholics anonymous. I work a 12 step recovery program because I am powerless over lust. In admitting this powerlessness, I have never been happier. Every area of my life has improved tremendously. I couldn't be more grateful for SA.

Of course, as a child I did not lust. It seems to me that lust is my connector between csa and distorted, convoluted thinking of today. I can reenact csa through lust, and then of course, it is never healing. Though lust promises resolution of conflict and connection with other men, it never delivers.

Mac

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#436096 - 05/28/13 04:06 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
You are so right about lust, I am not crazy about that term cuz it denotes negativity and shame. I think a better word is desire, all humans have sexual desire - its in the DNA and our animal brain.

I know what you mean about slaking that thirst though. I did SA as well for a time, I helped me understand that I could chose to not act on those impulses. However, for me it was sorta of an all or none approach. But it allowed me to free myself from the previous empty meetings that in my mind promised so much , but in the end, were and felt like nothing. Emotionally more empty at the end than the beginning.

It wasn't til I decided to just meet for coffee, or a workout, or just chat with no further expectations that I met the man I fell in love with. Now its a committed monogamous relationship that feels right because it is right. The common interests, the shared sense of humor, the desire to be with only one person happened first. It made the intimacy part so much more real because it was real.

Sex with other men does not give a connection to other men, you are so right. A connection comes first, and if you are gay the rest will follow if it feels right. If you are not gay, then like the relationship I have with my best str8 friend it will feel safe without any desire thoughts playing in the background.

sounds like you are doing well, give yourself time, the convoluted thinking doesn't just unravel but it does get less tangled.

cheers

grant
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#436110 - 05/28/13 05:09 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Hey Grant,

Glad to read that you also were in SA. So you know what I am referring to. Glad you found it somewhat helpful. The terms of sobriety are strict, and given my history, it is the program for me.

I prefer to seperate the concepts of desire or passion which are given to us by our creator from the concept of lust. For me lust is self-centered. It always takes. Its expression gets progressively worse and self-destructive. Passion is life giving. The one who receives my affectionate love is made better by my loving sexual expression.

My problem with lust and csa is that I was using lust to reenact the abuse. I felt like a record that had a skip on it. Through lust I replayed that part over and over again. Why? It was like an obsession. I felt compulsed to confirm the lies others had spoken over me.

I must say that since I joined SA, I have once again felt connected to the pack to the herd in a way I have never felt before. It is not always easy being "the gay guy in the room," as I have often complained to my sponsor, but I am doing better with it and so are those with whom I work the program.

You seem to be doing well in your relationship. I could not possibly enter into a monogamous relationship with another man without at least subtly recreating elements of the abusive sexual experiences of the past.

Thanks again Grant for your thoughts.

Mac

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#436229 - 05/29/13 05:00 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 393
Loc: west coast
You are most welcome Mac

I know the feeling of being the only guy in the room not of the same ilk, but I am glad for you that you are feeling more like belonging to a tribe. I found I got a better tribe sense from the survivor group I joined. The mix was about 1/3, gay , str8 and bi or questioning or asexual but not everyone has access to those kind or resources , depending where you live.

I have a great friend who is a minister; passion , lust and all things are given by the creator, its how we experience them of perceive them that is up to us, he opines.

The way I see it is desire and passion are a continuum based on a attraction to someone with the compelling hope of wanting a connection with them on an emotional level. Passion is the extension of that initial compatibility and indeed being lustful is just an expression of the desire to make love to marry the passion and overwhelming desire for closeness and mutual enjoyment. I think it is ok and indeed wonderful if you have lustful feelings toward your partner. That is not the same as a more lecherous tone where there is just sexual gratification and self indulgent without any emotional commitment or sense of two coming together as one and creating something even more. Sex without connection is mechanical, dangerous and indeed spiritually damaging. That is what makes it more like a recreation of abuse.


Originally Posted By: David Mac

I could not possibly enter into a monogamous relationship with another man without at least subtly recreating elements of the abusive sexual experiences of the past.

Mac


It saddens me that you think you could never enter into a relationship, because of course we cant ever know the future. But I think its really important to understand a healthy sexual appetite for your partner in the context of a loving relationship is in NO WAY recreating the abuse. The physical acts may or may not be similar but the INTENT is not and the outcome certainly bears no resemblance. The physiological release was the same but realizing a partner who runs from the bed making you feel used and empty is a world away from caring for the man in your bed and having him rest his head on your chest as you both cherish each other and the afterglow. It is not the orgasm but the context. That's the way we free ourselves of the fear we are merely recreating the abuse.

Apples and Oranges ,even though they are both fruit.

Cheers

grant
_________________________
The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#436342 - 05/30/13 05:26 PM Re: Repeating csa themes in my life [Re: David Mac]
David Mac Offline


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 57
Loc: Pacific North West
Hey Grant,

Thank you for your post. This probably shoud be a seperate post topic - what is lust and passion.

I understand you to say that you see passion, desire and lust as points on a continuum. So I see the difference here between us as I see lust and passion as polar opposites, two opposing forces.

Rape and perverse sexual torture of a child are two examples of an extreme form of lust. The person who commits these acts is a wolf.

A man who sacrifices his life for another is an extreme form of passion. A soldier who jumps on a grenade to save the lives of his buddies is a good example. He is a hero.

So to me lust is like darkness and passion light.

These reflections I have gleened from the Sexaholics Anonymous program. There is a wisdom of 30+ years and the testimony of so many men who working the program have gained a progressive victory over lust. I have been in other S programs including at gay and lesbian centers, but this is the only program which has doubled in size last year. I think the proof of its truth is in the fruits of its labor. I have also read Dr. Carnes "Out of The Shadows" and "Don't Call It Love." I found these two books helpful.

You stated that "sex without connection is mechanical..." I would add that lust is not an indicator that connection was made during sex. In fact many of us have come to realize that the presence of lust is an indicator that we are not present. We are somewhere else, lost inside our minds. This is what I meant in the initial post, the third point, "intensity=imtimacy."

Thank you again Grant for responding to my post. I enjoy talking with you.

Mac

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