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#429417 - 03/28/13 09:13 PM Re: When People Don't Respect Your Issues. [Re: cant_remember]
BraveFalcon Offline
Greeter
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/13
Posts: 1049
Loc: The ATL
Originally Posted By: Candu

I only read the first part of this post. (will read more in a bit) But why would I ask any more if I was told someone didn't want a relationship? None of my business


Because they think it is their business when they want to "help".

Originally Posted By: KMCINVA
I think there are many people who put blinders on to survivors of CSA. They do not understand what we have endured, the impact on our lives or destruction it did to or well being and ability to live in the world. I have heard get over it, it does not cause issues and I heard people say doctors, nurses, students studying psychology never heard of these issues from CSA- distrust,dissociation, emotional disconnection, self loathing but I have learned ignore these people because they have far greater issues than you and I--they do not have human compassion or decency, they are frightened by CSA and their ignorance rules them. You need to find kind and compassion people--surround yourself with them and not those that look at you with disdain. This will help you feel better about yourself--because the CSA leaves you confused as to your true value-and yes you have value.


Hi KMCINVA. All of these are valid points and all of them are true. The only reason I can't really apply them to the types of conversations/situations I'm talking about is that the people on the other end of them don't necessarily know I'm a CSA survivor. It's not like it's stamped on my forehead and I can't expect them to be psychic and know without me telling them. However, as far as I'm concerned, it would just seem to stand to reason that any guy my age who doesn't date and claims he "doesn't do relationships", obviously has issues with sex/intimacy/relationships of some kind. I'd think that much should be obvious, be those issues with CSA or something else. Because the presence of sex/intimacy issues of some kind should be obvious, it should also be obvious that it's not cool to pressure that person and poke at their issues, whatever those issues may be rooted in.

Originally Posted By: DavoSwim
Ken,
I am 51, single, never married, no kids, straight, CSA survivor and have experienced the same things you have described. I have even been told that I'm not complete because I don't have a spouse, and other times I've been told that it's okay that I'm not married. Even my doctor told me that there's nothing wrong with being single. Umm, that's not why I had an appointment, I had a concern about my health. I mean really, it was never a topic of conversation and I never wanted anyone else's opinion on whether I'm okay. People in general overlook the fact that some of us are single by choice and don't want to change.


True. I don't want to change either and I won't. Thing is, it's not just being a single guy that freaks people out and get's them trying to give you unwanted relationship help. It's being a single guy who isn't even interested in causal dating, isn't interested in getting laid and claims to prefer solitude. Some people just can't handle hearing that and don't think it's really possible because it's so opposite from their wants and needs and desires in life. It's like a totally alien concept to them. They hear you say those things and they think you must be lying and that you are actually really reaching out for help when you'e not.

Originally Posted By: ThisMan
Ken- most people think that a male needs to be with someone in order to be fulfilled. They cross those boundaries without a clue as to what they are really saying or implying. Which is that if a man chooses to be single, something must be inherently wrong with him. It isn't true.


No, it isn't, no matter how many people may think so. Sure, my childhood sexual trauma left me a psycho-sexual shipwreck of a person, and that may be the root cause of the reason I feel the way I do about these things, but that doesn't matter. Sure, if my sexuality had been allowed to develop normally I may be happily married with three great kids right now. So what? That's not how my life panned out and now, well, it just is what it is. There is nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted By: ThisMan
I hear it all the time also. The last incident came from two ladies I vaguely knew from the past, and I couldn't even remember their names. In the middle of the store isle, in front of God and a dozen strangers, they pointedly asked if I had found someone.


"Yeah bitch. I found my left hand in the seventh grade and I've never needed anyone since. It's also much less annoying and needy than the average female!" Ok, I wouldn't really have said that had I been in your shoes but I would have been thinking it. Ha ha ha ha! grin

Originally Posted By: ThisMan
And it becomes really awkward when someone begins to pursue you... but thats a whole other ball game.


Aint that the truth? Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt and ran like hell.

Originally Posted By: Lancer
It's similar to the way I handle telemarketers. I only answer when they ask me a question and then I only say, "Yes." Really pisses them off.

"Could I have your credit card number please?"
"Yes."
"What's the number?"
"Yes."
"What are you? Some kind of idiot?"
"Yes."

You get my drift. ;-)


Great idea! I think that's how I'm going to handle a cop the next time I get pulled over. "Do you know why I pulled you over?"....... "Yes". Etc. Which will be hilarious up until the point where I get arrested.

Originally Posted By: traveler
at time it takes absolute rudeness on my part to get them to give up and leave me alone. but i don't feel apologetic about it - it is only matching the level of rudeness that they demonstrate in their behavior. i don't feel obligated to submit to that kind of bullying. if necessary, i will just walk away.


Not a bad strategy, it's just not one you can necessarily resort to when the person involved is your sister in law, or a family member at a family reunion, or a coworker you're going to have to make nicey-nicey with every day from then on afterwards. Still, sound advice.

Originally Posted By: Publius

TL;DR A buddy set me up on a double date with a jerk who loudly pronounced to the whole party "you've been fucked in the ass!" in a successful attempt to make me feel bad in front of an entire party.


Dude, that's fucked up! When she said that you should have said, "Yeah, by your mom." You're probably to polite for that though. So am I really but there's always those things you'd like to say vs. the things you'll actually say. Sometimes it's so tempting to let one of those "like to says" out.

In my original post to this thread I stated that woman are mostly the ones who poke around at these issues but I forgot about what it was like when I was younger. Your post reminded me.

Yeah, back in the day it was more guys who got my ire up over these things. "What, you don't want to go to the strip club? You don't want to talk to those chicks? You don't want to go out and try to get laid? Dude, that chick was totally into you! Why didn't you go for it? What the hell is wrong with you, dude?"

Yeah, I don't miss that. When you get to be my age, most of those guys are now married with a kid, or two, or three, or God why the hell would somebody want to have that many fucking kids? So, those things aren't really an issue anymore. Now, it's always women who want to "help" you.

Originally Posted By: SoccerStar

I've gotten the "meangirl" treatment at parties - the worst part is thinking up what to say, hours later....


Think of things before you go into the situation. Go in "armed and ready".

Originally Posted By: cant_remember

TL;DR version: My friend's sister is a crazy bitch.


Hi Can't. That's pretty fucked. What a bitch. I applaud you for having the strength to tell her to stop touching you though. I've never been able to do that! I always just put up with it and pray that it doesn't escalate into a sexual situation that I don't want or know how to say "no" to.

I do have a way out though, and that is to get so stinking drunk that I can hardly walk or talk, let alone get in bed and fuck somebody. It usually works. It was even a pretty good way of avoiding sex with the one and only girlfriend I've ever had. Who, by the way, I was only in a relationship with because she pursued a relationship with me relentlessly and I didn't know how to tell her fucking "NO". Ha ha ha ha!!! How fucked is that? Seriously though, that's why.

Oh, and when someone is rude enough as to out-right inquire about your sexual preference, I've handled it two ways. One, say "I don't like any-fucking-body". Two, be a smart ass, then change the subject. "I'm only attracted to circus midgets dressed as clowns. Their gender is irrelevant." I actually have used that one.

Thanks for the replies so far guys! Great food for thought. Good to hear so many of us feel and experience the same thing. It's nice to have found a place where I don't feel like I'm a fucking alien from another planet. You guys are awesome! Peace!

Ken

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#449978 - 10/12/13 08:15 PM Re: When People Don't Respect Your Issues. [Re: BraveFalcon]
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
No one ever asks me about my lifestyle or status, except lately and only of the most cursory nature.

I never really thought about it but I suspect I convey myself in such a way in my day-to-day dealings that, people assume that it's a reasonable likelihood that I have issues which prevent any kind of relationships. They seem to just take it as given, which, I must confess, makes me question my self-conduct.

2 people, a respected uncle and a sister-in-law asked me about my status and if it would ever change. "Probably not" was most of my reply.

What's the point if you're not actually attracted to anyone?

It's sad though, because I intuitively know that I wasn't wired this way, I wasn't supposed to be like this, but shit happened and there's no going back in time. I consider my situation tragic and a waste, a waste of a great measure of happiness and fulfillment which I'll never know. I get no satisfaction whatsoever as I reply to this thread.

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#450027 - 10/13/13 06:52 AM Re: When People Don't Respect Your Issues. [Re: BraveFalcon]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
Well I do completely agree, there are far too many over baring, pig headed people who believe that their view, their idea and life style is best for everyone regardless and will carry on whatever. I've certainly had my share of this, had people trying to "help with your shyness" by being s/xually explicit, I've been asked "is there braille porn for blind people?" I've even had girls ask me what body parts I liked Yuck!

I completely agree that the experiences people mention here are absolutely typical and frankly all those idiots should know better and be more perceptive.

I will however say two things:

Firstly, frankly no, people do not! understand that men have issues with s/x or relationships. Even assuming that a person is perceptive enough to see that you don't make all the usual s/xual jokes or "want to get layed" then they'll assume it's a form of victorian morality or overbaring religious prejudice. The bad ones will even try to "help" with this by being explicit, (yuck!). Most people do not believe men can have issues related to sa, and even among those that might believe it is! possible, they will not assume any individual person they meet has such. Heck, I had the same experience myself when I first met someone who was gay. I had no overbaring prejudice or judgement about people who were gay, but it never really occurred to me to assume anyone was, and thus when my friend John actively admited to going out with someone with the same name I was honestly confused, and when he said he was gay I was surprised at the least, just because it was not something I'd naturally assumed about anyone I met.

Of course, there is Ken's question about "wouldn't they see there is! some issue" well, apart from the above mentioned thing of people assuming it is "shyness" frankly, a lot of people just plane aren't perceptive.I have mentioned before the girl at music school with the nervous laugh. It was absolutely clear to me! she had some sort of problem, ---- but not to other people, other people just thought "oh that's an annoying laugh" and left it at that, nor did they see when talking to her the obvious signs of a person in some sort of trouble.

It's something I'm only just realizing myself. However obvious I believe my! feelings to be, they aren't to other people, not unless other people really look carefully. It's like the time I tore the knee of my trousers but had to run out to a social function. I was convinced I looked like a complete rat bag, but when I met a very close male friend and asked how obvious the tare was he replied "well only to Sherlock holmes"

Second I will say something that is probably a little difficult.

yes! there are plenty of over baring idiots and just plane scumbags who do the match making thing. But just as not all Christians are loony god botherers who believe anyone who doesn't subscribe to their particular brand is doomed to damnation, there are! people who actually engage in match making for the best of reasons. Also, to be brutally honest, often, ---- it works!

I have a friend I'll call R. R is extremely intelligent, having five degrees and a masters, and a mind like an encyclopedia. He is also amazingly well read and experienced, and a genuinely creative person who it is extremely fun to talk to. The problem however is that once R goes outside the circle of things he! is comfortable with talking about and outside the environment of the university and that small group of friends he's used to, he clams up, he becomes utterly inaccessible, and all that creativity in interaction just fades out.

This is why he apparently had only two short relattionships in his 20's, none lasting more than a week, indeed when I told my russian friend I told about my abuse and my genophobia she replied "Well you don't have the social issues that R does so you'll find a relationship if you want one"

Yet, a mutual friend introduced R to a girl called B. B was one of the same circle of friends, R knew B, but said mutual friend made small, subtle ways of having the two be together, eg, asking R to pick B up in his car (since B couldn't drive), and give her a lift to a roleplay game both were involved in.

This was done very delicately, and in fact in full knolidge of personality, because B was! in many ways a good person for R, being similarly intelligent, but much more motivated and social, however in need of someone who would give her her own space as in fact R would.
Earlier this year, R n B got married (wow, that sounds sort of like a country music song).

So, at least in some cases it is A, meant with the best of intentions, and when dealing with people who don't! have a sa issue, can actually work.
It all depends upon A, a person's intentions and whether they are really trying to help or just trying to ram their views down someone else's throat, and B, how delicately and subtly it's done.

I've mentioned the comment I got at music school that "your so nice, you'll find a relationship"

Well there was a girl called J. I won't say I fell in love with J, I didn't have nearly enough time (singing for six hours a day), heck, i don't even know what I wanted to happen if anything, but there was certainly a rapport there. It's only really reading this topic that I now notice various people among J's friends made small, subtle gestures to have J and I spend time together. At one point for instance, I was told "it's J's birthday and she'd love to see you" on another, someone said "don't leave without seeing J"

Of course, a very crowded schedule at music school is not really a place to get to know someone, and heck, I'm not even sure that J was interested either or how I'd communicate an itnerest even if she was (the old problem), so we barely got started, but I do now notice these very gentle efforts to get us to spend time together.

Of course with sa survivers, simply putting a boy and girl together isn't enough, but I appreciate the fact that J's friends (who I also got on well with), were! actually trying, despite having very little time, and that they had noticed the fact that J and I had at least some sort of vague connection at the least.

To me, this was just a kindness, another complement. Uncomfortable, but a far cry from the extremely triggering "don't you want to get layed" or "don't you need a relationship to be complete"

So, while I absolutely and completely agree match making can be a very horrible thing, at the same time, I don't believe this is always the case. As with anything else it depends upon the person's original intentions, their perceptions, and their social skills and subtlety, which can all vary quite a bit, (interestingly enough, the girl who set up R with B has never! tried anything similar with me, perhaps because I have been open about my genophobia).

Luke.

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#450036 - 10/13/13 09:04 AM Re: When People Don't Respect Your Issues. [Re: BraveFalcon]
AndyS87 Offline


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 300
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
This drives me crazy as well. I have had many people who assumed I was gay because I don't make overtures towards women or go out of my way to chase tail Of course they never actually spoke to me, just assumed that since I wasn't chasing after women I must have been into men. No, just not that interested in the other party, thank you!

Recently, I found out a girl in my graduate class had a crush on me, and rather than go for it I stammered and just shut down. Things like "should I go for it? Should I wait and see? How do I approach this? Should I be direct?" I didn't know what to do or how to handle it, and then she ended up finding a boyfriend else where.

Later on, I was at a party with a bunch of people from our school group, and I was outside with her and another woman who is a bit older and happens to be a mom. Both of them asked me me what happened, because a lot of my male friends who are also in that group knew that I was just really really shy about the ordeal, and they didn't push the issue. Evidently somebody told this girl what was up though.

Basically the two of them told me "Why are you so shy? Do you not realize how awesome you are? I can't believe you don't have any confidence". I got away by saying a lot of that was just that I had a crappy childhood and my life really did some nasty things to me before I got to college. I did tell them that growing up, I was used to being at the bottom of the social totem pole and used to think for the longest time that any women "interested" in me were really just making fun of me, so I took that habit with me into college and my life now. They understood, and didn't give me the whole "well what happened!?" bit, they just told me there was no need for me to be so shy. I was a little upset that I always feel like I have to explain myself, but I also realized that's a me thing. Also, the two of them were very gentle and mom-like about the whole thing, which I appreciated. this is part of realizing though that I've been living in this mold I constructed for myself years ago to just "know my place" so I could avoid getting harassed by my peers.

I think I'm reasonably attractive and I think I'm generally a pretty nice guy, but I don't get what women see in me. I'm not particularly tall, my hair's receding, I'm not very "built", I'm not THAT funny...I don't know.

People mean well, I just don't think they know what to do with people who don't seek relationships or sex these days. Society seems to be really over-sexed in many ways now, and I feel like a lot of people get in to relationships to help define themselves. I've never been comfortable with that - I want to be happy and confident with myself before I get out there looking.

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#450049 - 10/13/13 11:33 AM Re: When People Don't Respect Your Issues. [Re: BraveFalcon]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 1871
Loc: durham, north england
Not to derail the thread andy, but that thing about "why are you so Shy" and complements I completely understand, it's something people (usually female though not always), have been saying to me ever since I got to be 18. I got the same again at music school.

the problem however for me, and the trap I confess I fell into was believing that people said this because they were just being kind or decent or nice, they were being encouraging and generous, but not actually making a diffference. This lead me to start, if not actually misstrusting, at least getting to a point of "oh yeah, you say that but it doesn't change anything!" (although I'd put it far more politely).

Now I tend to realize that it's just a complement, meant kindly, and it's my sense of worthlessness that sees it as untrue. I haven't got to the point of actually believing it yet, of accepting that I am tallented or handsom or whatever, (particularly difficult since such complements often come at a distance before people leave to never see me again), but I can at least simply exist in the center of everything. Accept that I have flawed perceptions of myself as much as other people do, and that really it's what I create and build of my life that counts, not what anyone says or thinks, whether that is me or someone else.

Sorry to slightly missdirect the thread, it just struck me that situation Andy mentioned is so very familiar.

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