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#428747 - 03/22/13 09:02 PM The tragedy of incest - triggers
Daniel_forgotten Offline


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
I know "incest" is almost an offensive word. I know many of you don't want to say it at loud or even read it. It happens to me too.
I often think I was victim of three types of sexual abuse. 1.Organized abuse in my early childhood by family friends and strangers. 2.Random abuse, during my teens, as a street "orphan" after I rejected social services shitty system. 3. My dad.

First two are easy to hate. It was scary. It was awful. They were different in many ways but i can hate it all. Third one is dragging me to the bottom.

I came to this site when I re-connected with him after almost 5 years. It was my breaking point. My amnesia was cured, I remembered my childhood. In and out hospitals, not able to keep jobs, dropping out school completely. There was no way out. I almost did it, I almost died but... I woke up in my old room, in our old house, the house that haunted me in nightmares was then alive. A second chance for dad and I. I was 18, not a child anymore.
The easiest thing to notice was that nobody knew me like him. In fact, I think he knew all about my dissociation. Heck, he knew every inch of me, for sure. He said he could touch my soul. He said he was the only one who could do it, that I should let him do it. I should let him help me. He guided me through detox treatment, he held me on those nights when I just wanted to die. He kept me from hurting myself, me and him tried to rationalize what was going on between us all these years. I realized I loved him, I had always loved him. We engaged in sexual activity again, just as an expression of our love. It's not my fault he happens to be my father.

He helped me understanding I was different. He started teaching me all I had forgotten during my "rebel" years, as he named the period where Social Services rescued me taking me from our discrete hospital to NYC, without ever linking me to him.
I believed, I believed every bit of his words, because I'm like him in many ways. Me and him wanted to stop the "incest" part of our relationship but we couldn't. Ok, sometimes, I knew it was terribly wrong. I was already a member here, I talked to you guys, I was being the biggest hypocrite on Earth. I was like a shaken can of soda- I said to a friend once. I was absolutely unstable and could go from happiness to extreme anger in one blink, I was creating new alters like crazy, I started feeling... and thinking... like him.. which now, in retrospective, I believe, is the closest I've been to the darkest side of Human Kind.

He proposed going on a trip to Europe, then to South America, where we had some business. In Europe he introduced me to his new fiancÚ. My world fell apart. I won't even..

We had the most horrible fights. I hit him in front of important friends, I almost accuse him of... I felt betrayed.. I really wanted to say "How you dare.. how you dare making love to me since I can remember.. making me fall in this sick love for you all these years, to trade me for this bitch?! I didn't say it but I did hit him. I even have a post here somewhere. It was the first time anyone realized me and him didn't have the perfect relationship they ha always thought. I was the bad kid, the spoiled brat who doesn't know how to thank such dedicated and intelligent father. A rumor started: His kid suffers from schizophrenia... poor thing.

His schizophrenic kid did a lot of crazy stuff during our trip to Europe, including sleeping with the future bitch-bride. (For what she hates me until this day, as if she hadn't made her own choice, think about sluts marrying a middle age man for his money and sleeping with his son for more fun stuff)

It was all too sick and too destructive for us all. It took so much.. It took hours here and many of you out there helping me with the decision and I finally made it. I ran away for good. I dissapeared in the hot, humid forests of south America. I cut the liasson for good. Or so I thought.

A year later, I betray myself and reply one of his desperate emails. He made me cry with his words. He was crying himself, I'm sure. He misses me. He loved me more than anything, he knows I love him more than anything. He misses my body, my soul, my "complicated mind" as he said... I couldn't fight back the pull and I replied. I feel like dissociating. I'm not sure what I replied. If there's a god, I didn't tell him where I am.

I am so confused about this thing I feel for him. Is stronger than life itself. It's bigger than me, than him, than society, than moral. I don't know what to do. I'm sorry for being a hypocrite. I'm sorry for being among you feeling like this.

This is the most I've said about myself ever in this site. I'm afraid of the consequences. I want to trust in somebody. And I don't want it to be him.

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#428757 - 03/22/13 09:47 PM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6847
Loc: USA
Daniel (not forgotten)

This is a good update on your story.

For me it was abuse by my grandfather. Not a lot of times.... but it didn't take much... I was still 4.

Photo has been moved to:
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=428818#Post428818

Puffer



Edited by pufferfish (03/23/13 11:34 AM)

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#428759 - 03/22/13 10:03 PM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3363
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Daniel -

i know what you mean about the taboo of incest - and not wanting to admit it. for me it was a step-dad - and it was not until more than 40 years later that i was able to make that connection and break the denial and say that is what it was.

unlike you, there was never any love or pleasure or positive aspects in it for me. he was cruel and angry and punishing and destructive. i don't think he even enjoyed it. it was all about power and control and dehumanizing and using me and establishing his alpha position in the family. maybe that makes it "easier" for me than for you to identify reject it as being totally harmful.

my heart aches for you. if it makes you feel any better, i don't judge or condemn you. if it helps, i forgive you and accept you and at least partially understand. i know the desperate need and hunger to be special and to be loved and to be wanted and to belong to someone.

BUT - i would suggest that the "love" and feeling of specialness has confused your mind and emotions. yes, they feel good - but look at all the negative effects that came to you along with them. i can't say if he really does love you or not. but i KNOW that if he loved you more, he wouldn't do to you what he has done. i would venture to suggest that your dad's treatment of you was very much like my step-dad's - with the possible substitution of a warped version of "love" for the anger.

i hope you will figure this out and do what is best for your own recovery. keep coming back. let it out. you have been very brave to post this. i hope it helps you along your way.

Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


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#428808 - 03/23/13 09:44 AM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3603
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Daniel,
wow, man you were so brave to share your story with us. I can imagine how difficult is for you to fight love kind urges toward own father mixed with attractions that shouldn't be part of it.

And you know what?

It is incredible no matter on confusion and love toward your father (every one of us loved our fathers no matter if they were abusive or not) you put it clearly that relationship has had tragic side (you put it in subject) you wrote it eloquently that you don't want it anymore. It is great achievement in healing just to be able to see it like that, just proceed like that:
Originally Posted By: Daniel_forgotten
I am so confused about this thing I feel for him. Is stronger than life itself. It's bigger than me, than him, than society, than moral. I don't know what to do. I'm sorry for being a hypocrite. I'm sorry for being among you feeling like this.

This is the most I've said about myself ever in this site. I'm afraid of the consequences. I want to trust in somebody. And I don't want it to be him.


You are not alone buddy. You have friends here.

Originally Posted By: Daniel_forgotten

A year later, I betray myself and reply one of his desperate emails. He made me cry with his words. He was crying himself, I'm sure. He misses me. He loved me more than anything, he knows I love him more than anything. He misses my body, my soul, my "complicated mind" as he said... I couldn't fight back the pull and I replied. I feel like dissociating. I'm not sure what I replied. If there's a god, I didn't tell him where I am.

I am so confused about this thing I feel for him. Is stronger than life itself. It's bigger than me, than him, than society, than moral. I don't know what to do. I'm sorry for being a hypocrite. I'm sorry for being among you feeling like this.

This is the most I've said about myself ever in this site. I'm afraid of the consequences. I want to trust in somebody. And I don't want it to be him.

Because it is so confusing, between parent and child, because it is very damaging and hurtful to child it is very important to put as many restrictions toward such parent as possible not allowing any uncontrolled communication.
If you have opportunity and have T please let him/her know about mail exchange that you've had with your father.

It is always very difficult to build strong enough defense when we are exposed toward our parents and it is even more difficult when parents want to impact destructively. It is no wonder that it was so difficult and challenging for you when you've seen his mail.
Please take care of yourself and do whatever is needed to not allow him to come back. Is it possible to check what you wrote in your reply?

In any case please don't be afraid. We are here for you, you are not alone.
You can find additional support here!

(((Daniel)))
_________________________
My story

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#428811 - 03/23/13 10:18 AM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Daniel,

Great to see you back. If I understand the situation correctly, your father was like, "Hey, let's me and you go to Europe," and you thought it was a Dad-son trip where you could reconnect after your long absence. And then, when you get there, you discover he has taken a new fiancÚ, which causes you to become jealous because in addition to being your father, he is also the only lover you've ever truly known.

If this is accurate, then you had every right to be jealous and angry at him for manipulating you into a trip that you thought was about you and him, but it turns out, all along, it was about introducing you to, essentially, your replacement for his affection.

This just proves how he has manipulated you and your feelings into getting what he wants from you without giving you any of your basic needs.

We are here for you, and have never forgotten you.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#428838 - 03/23/13 03:33 PM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
genedebs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/09/12
Posts: 285
Loc: MO
DANIEL FORGOTTEN

and all who have responded.

Incest is hard to deal with. Is my brother at fault when he had me suck his dick and then berated me for being a homosexual or was that just childhood sexual experimentation.

When I was 12 and my mother had me in various stages of undress including naked so her friend could take pictures, I know this was manipulation but my Therapists have ll told me it was incest. My mother and father both loved me, as much as they could love anyone. My father yelled and screamed on a daily bais and kicked and hit on a weekly basis from my age of 4 until I wqas 15 or 16, when I finally punched him.

He yelled at me that I was just performing to show off for my mother's friends. Ignoring the fact that he was going to hit my mother to begin with

I understand meeting important people as friends of parents, congressmen, senators, governors, etc. My father was on good behavior in front of them. My mother would hug me to her, flash me with her pussy, bleed with menses on the kitchen floor. She taught me a lot and helped me demonstrate what a good mother she was because I did wonderful things (tutorial programs, voter registration, elections of state reps and mayors, even a congressman, all before I was of voting age.

But the truth is despite their abuse I cared for them, and demonstrated my love for them until they died. As my rabbi said " To care for your parents the way they never cared for you is the highest form of revenge."

Yes, to be in the overwhelming need to be validated as a lovable human being is so debilitating. We know, we have failed. No matter what we have done it is not enough to overcome the sense of worthlessness that has been built into us as we are objectified and overpowered, emotional and physically.

Of course we want to believe we have choices so we can believe we have power. If we had no power we would be dead meat. But the truth is when your options are so limited (run to the streets, be suppressed by social services, or become a lover with your father) these are not choices. These are trying to survive with no lgood choice only which self denying debasement will you accept.

It has taken me more than 10 years in psychotherapy and more than 10 years after they are dead to accept I did not have the power to make choices only which betrayal I would engage with.

We all have different stories, but we all are just the same. It is not hypocrisy to face your limitations and be used by older, stronger, and more controlling people. It is that we are vulnerable, and those who should be most caring are lieing and betraying us. And we want to think it is our choice to participate,

When I was 13 and my mother had a friend of hers (who was 26) "take care of me." I thought I was prostituting myself to let him suck me and lick me, and ejaculated, to get him to mail something for me. This was not a meaningful choice. No for me or you when the options are so limited.

That you fucked your father's "bride" no that may have been a choice. And I cheer for you to have had at least a little ability to get some revenge, I also cjeer for your physically expressing your rage against your father. However, you have no choice to experience the rage itself given his abuse, betrayal, and violation of you.

We are here for each other and none of us has an easy path to healing. Believe that we are less judgemental of each other than of ourselve.

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#428885 - 03/24/13 01:54 AM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
Daniel_forgotten Offline


Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 479
yeah maybe i should take advantage of the fact i have some profesional help available.. the thing is ... I haven't told. I haven't and I doubt I will. How can I explain the email shit without saying something about.. it? I have profesional help because I'm currently crazy, they don't know about my past and I am not going there.

It really worries me.. that he has a new child. The story repeats and it would be my fault. I feel i need to go back home . I don't know what to do

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#428906 - 03/24/13 11:55 AM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1039
Nothing about this story is your fault. His new child is not your fault.

There must be other options available besides surrendering.

Cant
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

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#428926 - 03/24/13 01:42 PM Re: The tragedy of incest - triggers [Re: Daniel_forgotten]
Zug Offline


Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 56
Loc: Progress
I have no contact with family and am better for it. Eveyone else said all the good stuff. I will say that it took me a long time to understand that if I want something other than what I saw, I have to cut ALL ties, otherwise they drag me right back to that awfull place. I understand the feeling of responsibility. Tell on that sicko, dont carry that guilt as well, it's his, not yours. I can empathize w feelings, no one should have to carry this. At least we have each other, here.
_________________________
"what matters most is how well you walk through the fire"
-Charles Bukowski


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