Newest Members
cricket1007, Nickie98, jahfree, Daryl X., tryintothrive
12496 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
joeybird (54), ladyinwaiting (46), txpearl (46)
Who's Online
4 registered (Obi, highflight, dew, petercorbett), 21 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12496 Members
74 Forums
64167 Topics
447768 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#420928 - 01/04/13 05:07 AM Was this abuse? ** May Trigger **
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
So I've been browsing through the forums and reading some stories, and I've been thinking about something that happened to me when I was around 14 years old.

*** WARNING: This could be hugely triggering, especially if your perp was female ***








I had sneaked out of the house and was hanging out with some older "friends" and doing drugs. A girl/woman approached me. I have no idea how old she was, but in my 14 year old eyes she was "adult". She could have been 16 or 26 or perhaps even older. I really don't know. Anyway, she started touching me, basically feeling me up. When she first touched me, it was hugely triggering, but then the drugs I had taken just before kicked in and I relaxed. To make a long story short, she got me aroused and got me to penetrate her and to eventually ejaculate inside her.

I have always thought about this as my first experience of having sex with a female. I saw her again a while later, and had sex with her again - this time actually initiated by me. At the time, I saw it as a positive thing. Getting aroused by a female proved I was straight. Initiating sex and being in control of it, was a huge change from being raped.

Now, I know that because I was 14, what this girl/woman did was statutory rape in the eyes of the law. I also know that the first time, I didn't actively consent - I merely submitted, and if I wasn't high, I would probably not have done so. But I don't remember the event as being traumatic. I remember it as being quite pleasant, to be honest. I never thought of it as rape until I started reading other stories on here about men/boys who were raped by women, and saw the parallels.

I am also starting to see how it could have screwed me up a little more than I already was. For years after, I viewed women only as tools to assert myself and my own sexuality. I basically treated women like cum-dumpsters, seeking only the affirmation that having sex with a female gave me. I thought nothing of cheating on my girlfriend, because to me, there was a total disconnect between what we had, and what I was doing with the other girls. I definitely tried to recapture the relief of that moment when I first realised my perps may have been wrong, and I might not actually be gay. (Apologies to anyone who reads this who is gay - I was severely homophobic back then. I have since gotten over it).

I don't recall ever forcing a girl against her will, but I can see how this pursuit of sex, coupled with the need to be in control of it, could have escalated into me becoming a rapist if I didn't get help.

Was this just a young boy who had never been able to grow into his sexuality at his own pace, or did this girl and her act of "seducing" me contribute? Do I have a third, female perpetrator, or was it just my first heterosexual encounter? I don't think I know the answer to that any more.

I thought about posting this in "Survivors of female abused", but I'm not even sure this was abuse, and so I don't feel like I belong there...

Any insight?
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#420935 - 01/04/13 07:12 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
Candu Offline


Registered: 06/30/12
Posts: 312
Loc: Canada
Like a lot of things I think that in some ways it was bad but also in some ways I think it helped you. Life is not black and white.

Top
#420938 - 01/04/13 07:36 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3621
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Gecko, certainly that woman used you as her pray. She has seen you as easy to reach and she took her chance. You know some guys posted similar stories that included later pregnancy and stalking by same woman, so you are lucky I guess if all finished like it did. I don't know if that was abuse in full terms of word so to speak, but she definitely used you while you was weak.
Hopefully you didn't see that as traumatic experience...
But to be firm I can't imagine same situation with reversed roles (older man and drugged girl younger of 14 years) not to be considered as rape.

And pleased don't be so hard on yourself, you would never become rapist, hang on man, you are good person, it is not so easy to become so heartless and emotional cold-person like abusers are. You did great amount of work in your recovery, please acknowledge your good, very brave and worthy sides wink

Pero
_________________________
My story

Top
#420946 - 01/04/13 07:53 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: peroperic2009]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
You know some guys posted similar stories that included later pregnancy and stalking by same woman, so you are lucky I guess if all finished like it did.

I guess I am. I've never even considered that. If she did get pregnant, the child would be in his mid-twenties now... what a thought!

Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
I don't know if that was abuse in full terms of word so to speak, but she definitely used you while you was weak.
Hopefully you didn't see that as traumatic experience...
But to be firm I can't imagine same situation with reversed roles (older man and drugged girl younger of 14 years) not to be considered as rape.

That's what has started bothering me now. I was weak and I did not consent. She took advantage of an under-age boy who was intoxicated. But even thinking back now... it really wasn't traumatic. My memories of that event is that of a pubescent boy who had his first sexual experience. I was completely different from the abuse I suffered before.

Originally Posted By: peroperic2009
And pleased don't be so hard on yourself, you would never become rapist, hang on man, you are good person, it is not so easy to become so heartless and emotional cold-person like abusers are.

Well, I didn't, so it's ok. I find it scary to think where I would have ended up if I didn't get help, but I did get it so it really isn't relevant. I guess I'm just thinking about what effect her actions had on me and the way I saw women...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#420949 - 01/04/13 07:55 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: Candu]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
Originally Posted By: Candu
Like a lot of things I think that in some ways it was bad but also in some ways I think it helped you. Life is not black and white.

Yeah... life isn't black and white.

Perhaps I should just stop wondering about this, file it under "not traumatic" and carry on...
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#420953 - 01/04/13 08:09 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
SoccerStar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 918
Loc: New York
CG,

Tough to answer for sure. My understanding is that things really only count as abuse if they are unwanted at the time and/or have unwanted aftereffects. And it's hard to prove causality here.

Lots of guys treat women like cumdumps, lots of guys cheat, and having already been neon-sign-Richter-scale-for-real abused beforehand likely doesn't help. There are women out there who are extremely forward in situations where they feel they are in charge, and that can be influenced by the perceived age / emotional state of their "partner."

She pretty clearly was using you for her own thrill and had no respect for your personal space. But, again, if it didnt conclusively do any damage it's very hard to say. The fact that your first response was physical fear and you're sure you wouldn't have gone along with it if sober is revealing, but, again, there really are such things that take place in the universe without necessarily causing harm. One of the actively bad features of MS is that it can send people into living their lives backwards, piling up more shit they didn't used to mind as now actually being abuse or a symptom of it. Whatever feels wrong to you IS wrong - whether it's an unwanted and regretted encounter, or the sense that you "have to" project unwanted and regretted status onto an encounter that doesn't actually quite fit. If your overall characterization is one of enjoyment / relief upon a straight encounter, then that's probably how you really feel and rewinding to search for more damage can't possibly help.


TRIGGERS - VERY VERY SEXUALLY PUSHY FEMALE BEHAVIOR
When I was about 16 and completely shy and inexperienced with women, I went to a "young writers" skillbuilder retreat. The kids there were very artsy and eccentric. I was already tall and had a deep voice but was obviously shy and nervous around girls. There was one girl there who noticed right away and liked what she saw - I believe she figured I'd be a "safe" boy to gain experience with, or, hell, she liked taking the dominant role with a stammering-nervous guy. She would not leave me alone all weekend, always right next to me and holding my hand. I didn't like her, in fact I was afraid of her - she was a scary goth chick with black eye makeup, wearing a spiked dog-collar-like necklace (and they were sharp, weaponized spikes, not display studs), and kept regaling me with tales of how many drugs she did, of getting arrested, of taking weapons to school. It wasn't exactly what I'd envisioned for my first-kiss material, let alone anything further.

Anyway, she demanded to see my room and I led her into it. She pushed me onto the bed and straddled / crawled all over me and dry-humping me. This REALLY wasn't what I could process as my first time with a girl so I pushed her off and sat up. I tried to make a joke of it but she said "It's okay if you're gay." Then she STILL wouldn't leave me alone the rest of the damn weekend.

I don't consider that peer abuse or abuse of any variety; I consider it one person getting way too forward with a prospective partner who really wasn't into them, which happens about fifty million times a day.

However - if she'd gotten under my clothes and taken advantage of my hardon, THAT in my mind would have been abusive, because I was primarily afraid of her instead of any other emotion.


Matt


Edited by SoccerStar (01/04/13 08:17 AM)
_________________________
My story

"Don't think it hasn't been a little slice of Heaven just because it hasn't!" --Bugs Bunny

Top
#420960 - 01/04/13 09:43 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
CG

You already suffered extensive male in male sexual abuse in your earlier years- and know a lot about how early experiences affected you and your sexual development.

"Was this just a young boy who had never been able to grow into his sexuality at his own pace"

I'd say yes- based in what you have already shared about your past.

"did this girl and her act of "seducing" me contribute? "

I'd say yes- it was a alcohol induced experience with an older person who had more ability power control in the situation. imho, a guy' first sexual experience should ideally integrate intention , affection/love, and mutual exploration/desire.

", Do I have a third, female perpetrator, or was it just my first heterosexual encounter? "

Im not sure this question matters so much as HOW those experience affected you. Your job is working thru those consequneces and damages and feelings to be a healthier you- that is always important whether the label "abuse" fits or not.

Just my two cents.
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

Top
#421109 - 01/05/13 06:51 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
LazyPirate Offline


Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 106
Loc: Ontario
I had a similar experience when I was about 14 or so. It led to sex with that much much older woman. I have never felt that I was her victim, rather she was very forward & lonely. I guess I was just the closest & easiest sexual partner she could find. I found it all very exciting at the time & still think about it from time to time. I felt like the luckiest kid on the planet to get to have sex with a woman, while all my friends were still just drooling over girls at school.

I guess the question of "is it abuse?" is really personal... Whatever her intentions or motives were, you just need to figure out if it was a situation that harmed you or not. It's a really tough call. She saw you as easy pickings, but you returned the favour by later actually initiating sex... So you must have been at least a little ok with it.
_________________________
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson

Top
#421114 - 01/05/13 07:30 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
crazy gecko Offline


Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 309
I've been thinking about this some more...

Yes, my first reaction was fear. It was super-triggering. It was only the drugs that enabled me to relax. Without the drugs, I can imagine it being a completely different experience. I'm pretty sure it would have been traumatic if I was sober, if I couldn't stop her.

She definitely took advantage of me while I was vulnerable. She disrespected my boundaries. I guess me lack of indignation had a lot to do with my lack of self-respect at the time, and perhaps also has something to do with the lack of respect I still feel for the kid I was. And guess I can't accuse her of "stealing my innocence". It's not like I had any left to steal smirk

But the reality is that yes... even though the drugs was largely responsible, I was ok with it. I did enjoy it, drug-induced or not. And she couldn't have known I was abused and would be triggered...

You know what? I guess I should just be grateful that it was not traumatic and let sleeping dogs lie.
_________________________
I guess what I'm trying to say
Is whose life is it anyway because livin'
Living is the best revenge
You can play
-- Def Leppard

My Story, Part 2

My blog

Top
#421223 - 01/06/13 04:01 AM Re: Was this abuse? ** May Trigger ** [Re: crazy gecko]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1626
Loc: Minnesota
The main thing is that you have worked or continue to work through any issues this left you with in regards to how you relate to women sexually, ImHO.

Untangling the crossed wires of our early and formative sexual experiences is a bug part of recovery - and continuing to overload that same wiring with actng out sexually only reinforces the damage and deepens our disconnection from hope. (Also IMHO).
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

Top


Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.