Newest Members
JohnWC, KKumar, J44, Anura, reynel5
12420 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
beginning (34), Gary H. (41), jewelmom (63), kdg2310 (55), Li Yuki (2014), monarchnaps (36), Neverquit (30), Nord (58), SoSad (45)
Who's Online
0 registered (), 36 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12420 Members
74 Forums
63783 Topics
445415 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#419893 - 12/23/12 03:48 AM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
peroperic2009 Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/09/11
Posts: 3610
Loc: South-East Europe
Hey Cee I agree with you completely about blind ignorance, we have our sanity and we have to use it otherwise I don't see purpose in living wink .
_________________________
My story

Top
#422287 - 01/16/13 06:43 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
Ninja_Turtle Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/12
Posts: 25
Loc: USA
I understand that you guys are upset, but this article has taken the Pope's words out of context in a way that twists them to the opposite of their meaning.

If you read the address in its entirety, or if you've just followed Benedict on these issues over the years, this is what he is saying:

"Part of the reason that predators got away with crimes inthe past is that there were a lot of people at the time, including Catholics and supposed theologians, who said that nothing is absolutely good or evil, good and evil are relative, etc." He's saying that this is a BAD thing.

His entire papacy and everything he has ever written is in opposition to the idea that good and evil are relative.

People may not believe me, but while there are many corrupt Church officials, Benedict is a shining light among them. Within the limitations of what he can control, he has done more to clean up what he has called the "filth" in the Church than anyone. He was the one that shut down the corrupt Legion of Christ and more or less banished its predator founder Marcel Maciel, he was the one that centralized and made more effective the terribly ineffective system for dealing with accusations that existed under John Paul, and many of the Church figures who have done the best job of responding to the crisis are people who were appointed by him.

A lot of people have reasons to hate the Church's representatives, but don't believe everything that you read. The best way to get to know Benedictis to read his own books and speeches and the various interviews done with him.

If you want alternative takes on the Pope from abuse survivors who have met him, here are two:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/a...ing-to-victims/

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/abuse_victim_in_malta_pope_benedict_xvi_is_a_saint/

A quote from the second from an abuse survivor who met him in Malta:

ďI did not have any faith in priests. Now, after this moving experience, I have hope again. You people in Italy have a saint. Do you realize that? You have a saint,Ē he said, referring to Pope Benedict XVI.

All the best,

Ninja_Turtle

Top
#422308 - 01/16/13 09:38 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1045
Ninja,

A few things:

1) Your screen name and avatar are awesome.

2) My story and your story are very *very* similar: no memory of the abuse, but lots of the classic signs of sex-trauma PTSD.

3) I am a cradle Catholic, as I suspect you are, too.

That said, you are wrong to swallow hook-line-and-sinker whatever it is that the Holy Father's PR office is spitting out these days.

It was March 2010, when B16 dismissed allegations of child sex abuse by clergy, saying he would not be "intimidated by the petty gossip of dominant opinion."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/28/pope-benedict-sexual-abuse-scandal

Needless to say, referring to "dominant opinion" implies a "minority opinion" that B16 refuses to publicly denounce.

I don't mean to shut down conversation on this matter, so please feel free to respond -- but I don't think you understand what you're saying. The papacy is rotten.

Cant (but you can call me Splinter)
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

Top
#422420 - 01/17/13 06:16 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
Ninja_Turtle Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/12
Posts: 25
Loc: USA
Splinter,

Thanks for the kind words and for reading my story. I 'm happy that you responded.

Most mainstream media sources will twist anything regarding the Church, as the original article did. This article from the Guardian and the quote from it that you have just posted do the same thing.

The speech that Benedict is giving is from a homily on the gospel for Palm Sunday. He's not referring to the abuse scandal at all. Here's the paragraph that the quote they take is from, which talks about Jesus going up to Jerusalem in the gospel, and which shows the context that he is speaking in. I write it not to promote the religion but just to try to give a fair picture of what he is saying.

"Jesus goes ahead of us, and he goes up to what is above. He leads us to what is great and pure, he leads us to the healthy air of the heights: to life according to truth; to the courage that does not let itself be intimidated by the gossip of dominant opinions; to the patience that stands up for and supports the other. He leads us to availability to the suffering, to the abandoned; to the loyalty that stands with the other even when the situation makes it difficult."
From http://www.zenit.org/article-28783?l=english

What he says is to not let majority opinion intimidate us such that we don't stand up for people who need it, and that we should be available to the suffering and the abandoned. It's a very pro-Male Survivor type of teaching.

If one reads news regarding the Church from the mainstream news sources they will twist it; the reporters have their biases and sensational headlines with brief quotes get a lot more web traffic than long homilies and letters. If you check the original speech or whatever they're talking about it's almost always misrepresented. There're plenty of terrible people in the Church without making it seem worse than it is; it's hard enough to avoid discouragement without overlooking the real rays of hope. The only way to get to know the man is to read his own words without a go-between interpreting it.

I know it's hard to get past the sense of betrayal that comes with being an abuse victim, and I've had my own run-ins with predatory or dishonest clergy, and am generally very distrustful and cynical myself, but the more that I have gotten to know Benedict over the years the more I have found him inspiring. There are many who are not frauds, but they don't get the press.

I'm going to close here with a long quote from a letter that the Pope wrote to the Church in Ireland specifically to address the abuse scandal there. It's the two sections that he addresses #1) to abuse victims and #2) to predator priests and religious. I write this not to promote Catholicism or proselytize but just to try to fairly represent Benedict.

Thanks again. All the best,

Ninja_Turtle

"6. To the victims of abuse and their families

You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one would listen. Those of you who were abused in residential institutions must have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings. It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we feel. At the same time, I ask you not to lose hope. It is in the communion of the Church that we encounter the person of Jesus Christ, who was himself a victim of injustice and sin. Like you, he still bears the wounds of his own unjust suffering. He understands the depths of your pain and its enduring effect upon your lives and your relationships, including your relationship with the Church. I know some of you find it difficult even to enter the doors of a church after all that has occurred. Yet Christís own wounds, transformed by his redemptive sufferings, are the very means by which the power of evil is broken and we are reborn to life and hope. I believe deeply in the healing power of his self-sacrificing love Ė even in the darkest and most hopeless situations Ė to bring liberation and the promise of a new beginning.

Speaking to you as a pastor concerned for the good of all Godís children, I humbly ask you to consider what I have said. I pray that, by drawing nearer to Christ and by participating in the life of his Church Ė a Church purified by penance and renewed in pastoral charity Ė you will come to rediscover Christís infinite love for each one of you. I am confident that in this way you will be able to find reconciliation, deep inner healing and peace.

7. To priests and religious who have abused children

You betrayed the trust that was placed in you by innocent young people and their parents, and you must answer for it before Almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals. You have forfeited the esteem of the people and brought shame and dishonour upon your brothers. Those of you who are priests violated the sanctity of the sacrament of Holy Orders in which Christ makes himself present in us and in our actions. Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life.

I urge you to examine your conscience, take responsibility for the sins you have committed, and humbly express your sorrow. Sincere repentance opens the door to Godís forgiveness and the grace of true amendment. By offering prayers and penances for those you have wronged, you should seek to atone personally for your actions. Christís redeeming sacrifice has the power to forgive even the gravest of sins, and to bring forth good from even the most terrible evil. At the same time, Godís justice summons us to give an account of our actions and to conceal nothing. Openly acknowledge your guilt, submit yourselves to the demands of justice, but do not despair of Godís mercy. "

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedi...ireland_en.html

Top
#422446 - 01/17/13 08:12 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
traveler Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 3450
Loc: somewhere in Africa
Thank you, NT for this.
i found it very moving and could agree with nearly all of it.
and i'm not catholic.
but of course, the proof of the pudding...
just hoping that it actually trickles down to practical action - on behalf of the victims - and to hold the perpetrators accountable - not just to forgive and absolve them.
Lee
_________________________
As my life goes on I believe somehow something's changed
Something deep inside...
I've been searchin so long to find an answer
Now I know my life has meaning
Now I see myself as I am, feeling very free...
When my tears have come to an end I will understand
What I left behind: a part of me. Chicago


Top
#422454 - 01/17/13 09:11 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cosmos]
pufferfish Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA
I saw on public TV that the Vatican art museum is incredibly huge. I wondered how many statues of naked boy angels do they have there. I'll bet it's more than a few.

Puffer

Top
#422646 - 01/19/13 03:17 PM Re: Pope calls CP "normal" [Re: cant_remember]
cant_remember Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1045
From today's NY Times:

BERLIN ó A report about child sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church in Germany, based on victim accounts and released by the church this week, showed that priests carefully planned their assaults and frequently abused the same children repeatedly for years. ...

The reported assaults were clustered largely in the countryís heavily Roman Catholic regions along the Rhine River to the west and throughout the south, including Pope Benedict XVIís home state, Bavaria.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/19/world/...an-priests.html
_________________________
Recovery is possible. Hang in there, brothers.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2


Moderator:  Chase Eric, ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.