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#483452 - 06/06/15 04:12 PM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
lapchinj Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1392
Loc: New York
Hey Magellan

I also never thought anything about the scenario if I kill myself then my abusers win. I find it interesting the way you say it that it doesn't compute. I don't think that I wish not to live anymore but rather that I don't care at this point if I did. But my living has to be on my terms - basically nobody knowing what I did and what I was as a kid.

The only person I would feel bad for is only my wife but not my kids or grandkids since it's normal that the previous generation to go away. Kids don't have the same connection to parents as parents do for kids.

Before I started with my T and the healing process in January 2011I had hidden my life before I came out of the USAF in it's entirety, absolutely nobody knew of my life before 24. I always thought that if anyone would find out my past I would kill myself. But if my mother found out that I killed myself she would trash me to save face in her social life. So I was never good or smart and that kind of behavior didn't come from her side of the family. Sweet mad. So now I can't even die in peace, she would have the last laugh.

But I don't fear dying, 99% of the people here on MS don't know me and those that do it wouldn't take too long until I become someone in the past tense and then forgotten. Other than that I have only one real friend here where I live and we only speak every couple of weeks. So all in all there isn't anyone around that would miss me that couldn't get over it in a couple of weeks. I sometimes wonder why I'm still in therapy.

I'm in a vegetative state at the moment. No family that I know of because my parents never took me to see them and their kids. And all I do outside my dungeon is go to work and come home.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#483463 - 06/07/15 01:33 AM Re: Suicide attempts: how young? [Re: onlyakid]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 5531
Loc: O Kanada
“Death avoids a man who desires it,
to snatch at him whose heart holds fast to life.”

~ Mika Waltari


i still think about dying a lot.
several times a day.
i contemplate it constantly, but cannot comprehend it.
when i consider my own mortality, it makes me want to live.

sometimes i feel so much agony, anxiety and angst inside of me, i become paralyzed and panic from the pain. often, during those seemingly endless moments, i wish i could just spontaneously and instantaneously disappear, vanish, perish, cease to exist, die, etc. but those intense irrational ideas come and go in a flash.
as soon as they are articulated, they become dissipated.

over three decades, i have learned to ignore, accept or overcome those negative intrusive thoughts as mere expressions of desperation and despair. they are no longer connected to actions. they are words without weight, empty threats. plus, i have come to realize, after a few near death experiments, that it is only the experience of emotional pain that i want to end, not my life.

when i was little, i had many death fantasies. i tried really hard to imagine what it would be like to be dead, in the darkness, in my bed. what does 'nothing' feel like? can i die from thinking i am dead? once i realized that my days were numbered and i was doomed, i became obsessed with preparation and acceptance, while simultaneously extracting maximum intensity and extreme awareness from every single second. TIME: taste it! don't waste it! i made this discovery/commitment at a very young age. these are some of my earliest memories.

the only time i recall any real attempt to kill myself was when i took an overdose of aspirin while i was still a preteen. don't know what exactly caused that scene, but it was a total fail. i was under the impression that i would fall asleep and never wake up, so it seemed like the perfect painless peaceful solution. plus there was the chance that my mother would find me and save me. instead, i got really sick and puked. no one noticed the missing pills, and there was no ambulance or drama. the next day, i was too embarrassed to tell anyone. even then, i don't think i really wanted to die. i now believe i was trying to send a message. i was in a lot of pain and this was a distorted distress signal. i thought if someone noticed, they might rescue me. my effort to communicate was vain, futile, immature, incompetent and ultimately overlooked and ignored.

i started staging fake suicides by hanging, in the back yard, while i was still about 7 years old. i did it several times. i rigged up various rope tricks and had it looped around my neck to look like i was hanging by the neck. the idea was for my mother to look out the window and see me hanging from the tree and for her to rush out to save me, only to find out that it was a practical joke with special effects. i wanted to see if she would actually cry or even care. i wanted her to suffer just a little. i never was able to properly figure out a method that worked, but i do know several that don't. once, i actually succeeded in accidentally getting a bad rope burn on my neck during a near fatal mistake. when i felt the rope tighten around my neck, i freaked out, and i was barely able to get my feet back on top the 5 gallon paint pail i was using to stand on. i can still remember trying to grab the rope above my head while attempting to swing and get my weight off my throat and back on my feet, using only the tips of my toes. in my frantic frenzy, i almost kicked the bucket over and that would have been game over. i never did that again.

i have actually played russian roullette with a loaded gun, once, just to see what it felt like and to say that i did it. i did it on a dare, and the other guy chickened out. i foolishly counted that as a victory. i was about 12 years old, and pulling that trigger was one of the most difficult and idiotic things i have ever done.
i never did that again.

i also jumped off the roof of a two storey house with an umbrella because i thought it would parachute my fall like batman's penguin, or mary poppins, but that was not suicidal, just stupid. lucky for me, only the umbrella broke. i was about eight when that happened.

i think i started cutting before i was ten, and carried that on until my mid twenties. i don't know if i was truly suicidal ever, or just hooked on chaos, craving attention, addicted to adrenaline and attracted to danger. it was some strange mixture of all of the above. i spent my childhood running to and from serious situations, only to escape and seek them out again.

i did not want to die, specifically, but i did not want to live without that taste, the "all or nothing". i was always willing to go that extra step, to dangle over the edge of the abyss, just to demonstrate, to myself and others, that i was a berserker.

i discovered the only way to beat my fears, was to will myself to disobey the freeze or flee commands, and focus on "FUCK YOU, GOD! I DARE YOU TO KILL ME!" i was afraid of death, but the concept of being a bland boring robot zombie civilian coward was much more frightening to me. in my mangled mind, 'predictability' equaled 'vulnerability' equaled 'victim'. 'normal' meant 'cattle' meant 'stupid' meant 'slaughter'. i was fully immersed in the "come and get me" "blaze of glory" theory.

every time i didn't die, it was a glimpse of immortality, an immaculate high. i spit in death's eye!
not exactly healthy, but i enjoyed it until it became obviously ridiculous. i was extremely lucky to survive my own ignorance.




“Of all living creatures it is yourself that is most difficult to kill.”
~ Arthur Koestler
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#483473 - 06/07/15 05:45 AM Re: Suicide attempts: how young? [Re: onlyakid]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2145
Loc: durham, north england
The odd thing is my first thoughts about death were probably relatively healthy ones.After my religious experience when I was 7 and had lost my sight, I felt fairly convinced I knew what being dead was like, sinse a component of that experience had been a timeless quality. Sinse my parents at that point were still nominally christian, I felt I knew what heaven must be like, not white clouds and hailos and harps, just existing in an eternal second at one with the universe, drifting in the black light, (I actively disbelieved in the existance of hell and was very much against the idea of eternal damnation, indeed I was a follower of Origen when I was nine).

I was quite calm about death at that stage, had little to no fear and was content I'd die when I died.
When I went to the boarding school where intensive emotional abuse happened, that was when I started to just want things to stop, I even once tried to knock myself out by slamming my head on a wooden locker, though of course this just resulted in a bruise.

When the abuse at secondary school really started to get extreme when I was 13-15, I had lost all sense of time, I existed pretty much in an endless present, so I started to coldly, rationally and in all complete seriousness wish to die just to make everything stop, as I had no other choice. I considered various methods from cutting my wrists to hanging to poison, but I was also quite cold about my actual ability to carry out any of these efficiently and the last thing I wanted was to be intensively hurt by slashing the wrong part of my wrists or attempting a hanging which failed.

I nearly threw myself off a 70 foot cliff at one stage but didn't sinse I was not certain the gradient of the cliff or the falling room would insure my death quite satisfyingly enough, had I had access to firearms or any morphien based drugs I quite likely would not be hear now.

I can't say this was despairing or sad or anything else, heck I didn't think of my earlier ideas of heaven it was just a very cold realization that I couldn't go on with things as they were and things had to stop, even though I assumed it was me who was at fault and all this was perfectly normal.

I have not been in quite that literal state of coldly and completely wanting to simply end sinse then, but I have found myself thinking a more conventional (and possibly worse), thing. That I am so sick of the collective continually riding over me, ignoring me, treating me like shit I want to do something big and violent and shocking just to say "hay! I exist, you! can't ignore me"

I've had fantasies of going into a crowded shopping center and shooting into the crowd (then shooting myself), or of strapping on a bomb and walking into a building, or of setting a building on fire and then committing suicide, indeed I think I now know why suicide bombers behave as they do. After all if hay it is just fate that I'm ignored by most of the world and I have no power over anything and had all the shit I had to deal with, what would be so wrong with me giving some of this back? Hell doesn't the Bible say to do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

My empathy is the only thing that stands between me and doing any of this, that I simply am not wired on an individual level to actively desire to hurt another person, although I do sometimes feel glad I don't live in a country like America where guns are readily available, (sinse hay it's easy to be all moral when I actually don't have the choice).

I also still have the desire that I want the hole human race to stop, to simply give up everything, all the bigotry and the disconnection and the uggliness and the egotism and the ignorance. Maybe two people can reach a meaningful connection, for a minute, for an hour, for a few years, but the collective still rolls on and we still obey it just because it is! the collective that we don't question.

Btw, by "Collective" here i mean what you could call the collective unconscious, or the collective assumptions that everyone makes, that it's quite okay for fat coorporations to treat people like nothing for prophet, that it's quite okay for most of the human race to pretend disabled people and anyone else they don't want to see doesn't exist, that a system of so called democracy voting for one of a number of game teams where each person just becomes a number on a statistics sheet and even those who rule can go on playing their little games and traditions irrispective gives anyone any choice or power at all, that all men or women must be the same irrispective of their chromosomes and while it's quite okay to challenge assumptions about women it's not about men because all men are sexual predators and aggressors, that everyone should be equal but we can ignore and dismiss anyone who isn't.
That all art must exist just to fill the pockets of the coorporations and individual merrit or creative freedom mean nothing next to the almighty prophet, that any coorporation can reduce freedom and alternatives just because they say so, that any system of rules for protection such as the law just exists more often for those who have power or want power to force everyone else in line in the name of equality.
That even art and philosophy that pretend to question these assumptions are just games played by one team trying to one up another, and of course anyone who does! question the collective must simply be a misanthrope out for themselves and must be wrong.

I call this "The collective" as though it is a singular thing, or some shadowy group ruling humanity but really it isn't, it is just all the things we assume must be as they are simply because "that's how the world works" or because we don't question them at all.

It's due to the collective that I actually don't feel any hope for our shitty species or see much good at all, sinse whatever good is achieved on an individual level, it's nothing compared to the evils that are done collectively, often not even out of malice or spite just because "well that is the way things are"

I am still not sure about suicide, on the one hand I haven't had the cold, rationally planned desire that everything stop sinse the abuse finished, though on the other I don't see anything much changing in my life for the better any time soon so it's really just a case of continuing because no opportunity to do otherwise presents itself.

I'm not stupid enough to assume that were I trapped on a sinking ship or in a burning building some sort of reflex wouldn't take over,but I do at this moment rather feel that if somebody murdered me tomorrow I wouldn't really be losing much. Just a life of books and music and playing computer games and trying to escape life on this shity planet and it's crappy dominant species as much as I can.


Edited by dark empathy (06/07/15 05:47 AM)

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#483474 - 06/07/15 06:22 AM Re: * [Re: lapchinj]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 5531
Loc: O Kanada
Originally Posted By: lapchinj
all I do outside my dungeon is go to work and come home.


this made me cry.
not just the content, but the form.
the word 'dungeon' replacing 'home' triggers tears.

((lapchinj))

even a palace can be a prison.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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#483485 - 06/07/15 09:36 AM Re: * [Re: lapchinj]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1562
Loc: California
Jeff,

For the first time in a long while, I feel empathy for someone I've never met. I am so disconnected as well, that if I disappeared from the face of the earth today, hardly anyone would notice. And those that did, would be over it in less than a week, because they have busy lives and are engaged and connected to others and their families. I, like you, truly feel completely worthless, because, frankly, no one would care when I die.

You describe my situation very well. And I have to admit that I feel a twinge of jealousy that you have a wife at your side. And kids. And I know you have communicated that your relationship to your kids isn't satisfying. But still. You've had the experience of holding one of your own children in your arms, and seeing their adoring eyes pouring into your soul.

One of my 2 "close friends" came to visit a few weeks ago. We talked a lot about growing up and older. And our neglectful mothers (which is the one thing we have in common with each other). We talked about our desire to be a good child to our mother, but being thwarted in that desire because our mothers were too involved in their own insanity to give a shit about us when we were kids. And trust became a huge part of that. We realized somewhere along the way that we couldn't trust our mothers, and that had a PROFOUND impact on our ability to learn how to trust others, ourselves, and the entire universe.

Then it clicked - part of why having kids is such a wonderfully (and painful) beautiful experience is because our kids can teach us what our parents failed to. I suddenly realized when my friend said "My sons think I'm a god. The way they look at me is sometimes unnerving. I sometimes feel I have too much power, and don't deserve their trust." ... I suddenly replied "Your kids are teaching you the lessons of trust that your mother should have." It hit me doubly hard - coming to see how much I could grow as a result of raising kids.

Sorry folks. I didn't mean to take that tangent in this thread. But this is part of the reason why I feel the way I do. I'm worthless without any relationships. I can't make friends, and thus, can't find romance, and thus, starting and raising a family is now a ridiculous fantasy. I'm so chronically lonely.

Jeff, I appreciate you sharing your inner thoughts. Home being a "dungeon" is how I feel as well. I don't feel like I live. I also feel so powerless to change this that I'm just waiting for the inevitable.

I'm just watching my body and mind slowly degenerate. Yes. This conversation does appear to skirt a little close to dangerous territory. But I personally think it's an incredibly important conversation to be had candidly. People kill themselves for a reason. I think we should look very hard and very long at those reasons. If the planet and societies want to do away with suicide so badly, then I think we should encourage far more open, public, and honest talk about this. Just like many of us strongly desires our culture to have a far more public and honest talk about childhood sexual abuse.

Saw the suicide hotline posters plastered all over our local subway. Wondered to myself "Why is it so important for other strangers to care if I kill myself or not. Why do they really care?" I think there's a fear of death we are all in denial with, and it frightens us to think that another human being would think their life is so miserable as to walk willfully towards death. It's too scary for mentally healthy people to think about.

I'm glad this thread exists. I've been thinking about suicide recently. And I'm glad to know that others feel the same haunting and depressing feeling about being trapped and stuck where they are, no matter what they're trying to do to get help.




Edited by Magellan (06/07/15 09:51 AM)

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#483493 - 06/07/15 10:57 AM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
lapchinj Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1392
Loc: New York
Hey Victor

Quote:
this made me cry.
not just the content, but the form.
the word 'dungeon' replacing 'home' triggers tears.

It wasn't my intention to make anyone cry but I cannot describe the room any other way, not even calling it a prison. A prison is also a place of confinement but there is usually more than one person in prison and there is more humane treatment given to the prisoners. Prisoners can talk to one one another even though they are in a cage.

A dungeon on the other hand is a dark gloomy place where there is no human contact. The only contact is when a person is let out of the dungeon, for instance like having to go to work. On weekends all my time is spent in my dungeon from morning till night and a lot of times all night also. I have no contact at all with family, not my wife, children or grandchildren. It's a place where my torment is plays itself out over and over again and again. I have only one chair in my dungeon so if I let anyone in then there is no place for them to sit down and chat. The would state their business and leave.

But my dungeon is a safe place for me since I know that nobody can hurt me while I'm in there. There is a lock on the door and there are no other keys than the ones I have. The windows are painted black so I get no sun or moon shining in. I am all alone with my demons and past and nobody can interfere with my thoughts.

My dungeon is a place where I try to get through my past. It's the only place that I can see the damage I caused to others and others had done to me without freaking out. It is a depressing place but I don't have to look over my shoulder anymore to see if someone is going to grab me, I am safe.

Thanks for the hugs

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#483644 - 06/10/15 01:40 AM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
lapchinj Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1392
Loc: New York
Hey ((((( Magellan )))))

Quote:
I am so disconnected as well, that if I disappeared from the face of the earth today, hardly anyone would notice. And those that did, would be over it in less than a week, because they have busy lives and are engaged and connected to others and their families. I, like you, truly feel completely worthless, because, frankly, no one would care when I die.
I think that in all religions there is a mourning period and then there is a mourning period that's added for very close family or friends. Then life goes on. This is the way I would describe my thoughts on suicide. The only one I would hurt is my wife. My kids are great and we get along since they are all grown up but they have their own families so eventually they have to get on with life. That's normal, they might remember the anniversary of their dead father but that's it. parents die before kids. It's horrible when a child goes before his time. A parent never forgets a child but a child will expect the father to go before him at some stage in his life. Yes I'm lucky that I have a wife that would be affected longer than my children but she will eventually get over that also. Maybe the anniversary would be a sadder time than it would be for the kids.

My wife is very sensitive and she mourned her mother for about 5 years. She couldn't go through her things for that whole time and she had trouble talking about her but now I think that it's 10 years since my mother in law passed away and we can talk about the good times we had together. For me you couldn't ask for a better mother in law. But people are not affected that much as time heals wounds. It might come as a shock but they will get over it. I have the place and the way I would do it and that nobody but the police would find me. So some kid riding his bike doesn't have to have the trauma of seeing a dead person. I'm not at that place now but if I ever do I have to make sure that it will work and not like when I was a kid.

Quote:
You describe my situation very well. And I have to admit that I feel a twinge of jealousy that you have a wife at your side. And kids. And I know you have communicated that your relationship to your kids isn't satisfying. But still. You've had the experience of holding one of your own children in your arms, and seeing their adoring eyes pouring into your soul
Yes it is true that I held my newborn children but as they reached around 3 years old I could not go near them, I could not kiss them or hug them. I couldn't play ball with them or roll around on the grass with them. I couldn't help them with their homework. I remember that I really didn't eat at the same table with them, I would eat before or after them. I was finally able to talk and act normal with them when they were able to go into service. That's why my wife is so special, she brought up our kids and I had nothing to do with it. I would work 70-80 hours a week just so I wouldn't have to come home and have a kid ask me who was the first president of the USA.

OK they all grew up. Now 4 out of the 6 got married and had a families of their own. I have now 13 grandchildren and I cannot touch any of them. They look like the kids I was forced to have sex with. 4 of those kids live in the apartment in my house on top of me. They are always coming in and out every day. The oldest of the 4 is 9, the second is 7, the third is 4 and the 4th is 2-1/2. The are beautiful children but I cannot go near them. I am stuck in my dungeon now from when I come home until I go to sleep. The kids never see me, none of my grandchildren see me. I have a problem when I see their happy faces which is so much different than the kids that I was forced to be with.

So before I was only triggered by own 6 kids and now I'm fucked that I cannot enjoy my grandchildren. My life has been a jail for me and that's why I am in a dungeon instead of a room downstairs. Sometimes I hurt so bad that I pray that I will not wake up in the morning.

I have never really had any friends since I came out of the USAF only acquaintances. I could not let anyone close to me that could find out what I was and how I turned trick while my kids played ball (without me).

I'm getting carried away with myself now so I must stop here. I am so sorry that you are also in pain. I wish I had the magic to rectify that.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#483660 - 06/10/15 07:59 AM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1571
Loc: kansas
Jeff,

this hurts me. First off, it would bother me if you die. I would never "get over it".

second, to say you don't have any friends also hurts me. I thought we were friends. I thought moose was your friend.
_________________________
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#483662 - 06/10/15 08:59 AM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
lapchinj Online   content
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/07/11
Posts: 1392
Loc: New York
Hey Obi

I meant friends here in NY. I have one close friend here in NY that I talk with usually 2 times a week, and I shared some of what went on to two foremen who I had to explain why I wasn't here on Mondays. I met cant_rememer once and he helped me a lot with the underworld side of my abuse. The last person I know here in NY is Logan who I have met several times since I've been here in 2011.but those guys would get over it very quickly.

Yes, you and Pete are close friends here on MS that I know personally. The other close friends I have here on MS are anonymiss.

As for you and Pete you might never forget (like Liri and Ladd) but the hurt will go away after a while, that is human nature. If a person could not get by the hurt then when people start passing away and they couldn't not get by the hurt they would not be able to cope with it all they would end up in a mental institution.

Sorry you misunderstood what I meant to bring out.

Peace, Rainbows, Love, Healing & Hope
<3 XOXO
Jeff
_________________________
Stick around, It will get better....

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#483667 - 06/10/15 10:43 AM Re: * [Re: onlyakid]
Obi Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 1571
Loc: kansas
There will always be hurt, Jeff. That never goes away. I may come to a point where I can deal with the hurt, but it will always be there. To say that I will eventually not hurt anymore or that it won't bother me anymore or that I will just move on and forget about it is complete bs.

Jeff, I hope you don't think so little of our friendship that you believe that I would eventually just forget you, not care anymore and so on. That really hurts my heart. I care about you and our friendship that I would be devastated and I am pretty sure moose would too.
_________________________
live another day. climb a little higher.

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