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#9916 - 08/15/06 06:20 PM Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Can't stop thinking about the moment I realized I was in trouble. In that one second when I knew my life was about to change, I looked at him and he looked at me, and those eyes that looked anxious and eager and hungry. If I only had another minute to react I would have been out of that car. I had my hand on the door handle and the very last thought in my mind before the lights went out was opening the door and jumping out.
Actually never occured to me until now that jumping out of a moving car going at least 60 on the highway probably would have killed me.
But if it did kill me it would have saved me having to live with what they did.

Jay


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#9917 - 08/15/06 07:42 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
mphsrvivor Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Tennessee
Jaysen, you're asking a 'why' that can't be answered. I've asked the same thing in the past. Why did I not run out of the hotel room when he first crossed that line? Why did I keep being his friend? Looking back now, its easy to see what we could have done differently to avoid what happened and it is this train of thought that feeds the guilt we have for what was done to us. But the truth is nothing can change that past. Of course we would have reacted differently if we had known what was going to happen but we didn't know. We were caught by surprise.

_________________________
---Patrick

"Do not go where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#9918 - 08/15/06 07:45 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Trevor Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 778
Loc: Rhode Island
ya caught by surpise

_________________________
My lamb and martyr, this will be over soon. You look so precious.

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#9919 - 08/15/06 08:05 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
why did i follow Mat into the bushes? we can tear ourselves up debating these things, and it doesnt change what happened. all it does is trap us in an endless circle of self doubt and second guessing. at the time, if we could go back, we had our reasons. right or wrong, we did what we did. you know, some part of you may have been sounding an alarm, but obviously enough of you wanted to go that you overpowered those concerns and got in the car.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#9920 - 08/15/06 08:09 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I know it don't change things, I just can't stop thinking about it.

"some part of you may have been sounding an alarm, but obviously enough of you wanted to go that you overpowered those concerns and got in the car." <---yes, that's called budweiser, rum and X!


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#9921 - 08/15/06 08:17 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Was it my fault?
Why wasnt I stronger?
Was I a wuss for crying?
Why did I not fight him?

There are thousands more questions in a kids life who is so f*cked up by it all, but then again, he only has himself to blame!

Nobody else will even shoulder an ounce of it, family or otherwise, and the only thing you need to know, is that we all followed a similar pattern, so we are all guilty.

Guilty of pure innocence and trust, doesnt make sense now, does it!

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#9922 - 08/15/06 08:44 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

That and a million other questions come up over and over again when we think back to what happened to us.

One thing we need to bear in mind is that there's nothing we can do to change the past. It's important to understand what happened, but after a point it's just agonizing for it's own sake and devours emotional energy we need for other things.

We also need to look at what we are doing. All of our "what if" questions are somehow judgments against ourselves: what if I had got out of the car?, what if I had run?, what if I had said no?, what if I had told? But we didn't do those things, and in this way we find a new path to follow in our efforts to blame ourselves. We need to keep telling ourselves that one change in the sequence of events could have led to a lot of other changes that we have no way of knowing or predicting. And no matter what the scenario would have been or could have been, we need to hang on to a very basic truth: ABUSE IS NEVER THE BOY'S FAULT.

Jay, I don't think there's a formula we can use to stop thinking about these "what if" questions. My own experience was that as I made progress in general, my need to blame myself faded. I was more willing to trust myself and believe that it wasn't my fault. As that happened I guess I just didn't need the "what if" questions anymore. As they became pointless, I gradually stopped asking them.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9923 - 08/15/06 09:14 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jay,

take yourself back to the time it happened.
It happened to the little boy remember, think of how he was manipulated, think of the control adults had in his little life.

I used to think as an adult that I could have stopped it as a boy, but I took myself back, and found just how scared and vulnerable I was back then, its scary to go back, but that is how it is.

It is cyclic, like old tapes running in your mind, and it is time to run the new tapes, of the person who needs to come out of it, and yes, we all thot we were boy whores, but NO! We werent.

You were hurt by adults who should be aware of the consequence of their actions, but lust can take over any form of rationalization in a perps mind, and hey, its them who wear the greatest mask.

The one which puts them into trusting positions to do evil, but that is another story,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#9924 - 08/15/06 09:27 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
theboywithnoname Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 10
Loc: United States
I used to beat myself up like this, thinking back on bad times identifying things I could have done differently. The problem with that kind of thinking is that you're applying adult judgement and wisdom to things that happened to you as a child. At that point in your life, the burden of adult responsibility should have been on the perp, not on you. Sure you *could* have acted differently, but had they acted like an adult in the first place you would have never been forced to think like one as a child.


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#9925 - 08/16/06 05:22 AM Re: Why did I get into that car
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
why didnt i just beat the hell out of him? cause i was an 11 year old boy and he was a fully grown man .we didnt stand a chance and we never had a choice.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#9926 - 08/16/06 10:07 AM Re: Why did I get into that car
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I apply child logic to a lot that I do.
Yes, I have been back there, and thought how it was, and why things happened that way.
The only thing I know is, it was never how it should have been.

I remember not wanting to be a favourite of teachers or neighbours, but somehow wanting to "fit in".
It was like I wanted it all, but was scared of the consequences of it.

I remember in it all, that I was a really popular kid with a secret, that secret turned friendships away, and turned girls running.

All the time I was wearing a mask, but inside I just wanted to scream out to everyone what happened.

If I look back though, I had no way of doing anything other than the path I chose.
I do thank the little guy, because he took me back to it, and its time to thank him for being so strong.

So thats it, you all did much the same thing to survive, so you all had a courage that is unmatched in society,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#9927 - 08/16/06 10:33 AM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam sums it up:

Quote:
We didnt stand a chance and we never had a choice.
The abuse came at us either so fast we didn't have an opportunity to react, or else it crept up so slowly we didn't recognize it for what it was.

There's also the fact that when a kid is being abused he doesn't see that he has "choices": to run, to say no, to tell. Think back - what was running through your head when it all started? I remember it all. I was thinking "Why's he doing this?", "I don't like this", "I'm scared", but in the face of what was happening I was like a deer in the headlights. I just froze. I was scared and confused. I was crying and trembling. And I just did what I was told. The furthest thing from my mind what pondering what choices I might have, assuming there were any. It's back to a basic point I think it worth repeating: A boy who doesn't KNOW he has any choice in fact DOESN'T have any choice.

We have to remember how powerless and defenseless children (and that's what we were) are in the presence of evil. For a pedophile it's not a matter of being clever enough to trap a kid; it's just a question of being evil enough.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9928 - 08/16/06 11:59 AM Re: Why did I get into that car
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i have revisited my abuse so much i can't even count. one thing that became clear is that even though some part of me know it was wrong, i was so hungry for something that i was willing to trade my body away to get it.

Jaysen, if you were so out of it and drunk then you likely couldnt make a choice. i dont think getting in that car was as much a choice as you want to believe. if you are really drunk, your mind doesnt work, and these guys used that to take advantage. in my mind it is more likely they were in control and making choices for this utterly drunk boy that they could use. no one deserves to be raped, no matter how foolish they are, no matter what they did. it takes a real set of monsters to do what they did to you. i think you are giving yourself far too much control in your mind. i suspect things were beyond your ability to control in the state you were in.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#9929 - 08/17/06 04:01 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
True, easy to look back now and think I had any control over the situation. Also true no one deserves to be raped not even once let alone.. I don't know how many times. But... it doesn't matter how drunk I was at the time, it was MY choice to get into the car. Nobody forced me in, nobody talked me into it, I made the decision. It was a bad decision but it was mine. At least let me blame myself for that part of it?

Jay


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#9930 - 08/17/06 04:05 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Adam / Larry - I completely agree with that... that we didn't stand a chance and we didn't have a choice and it applies to the situation when I was a kid, with Kenny. But I just don't see where it applies to the assault. Drunk or sober, I just don't see it.
Maybe I don't want to see it.. who knows.

Thanks,
Jay


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#9931 - 08/17/06 04:57 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
thetraveller Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 69
Loc: England
Jay just because you made a bad decision, off your face on x and booze, thousands of people will have done similar things.

I have wondered off with strangers, got in cars and gone to partys with people I just met when I've been drinking and taken X. You shouldn't beat up on yourself. you have just been extremly unlucky meeting some evil c**ts while you were wasted and they took advantage.

Direct ALL your anger at them. They deserve it not you.

Take care

Craig


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#9932 - 08/17/06 05:10 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I know they deserve it, it would be a lot easier to direct my anger at them if I knew who the hell they were and why they chose me!

I'm angry at what they did but for all I know one of them could be the guy I buy my coffee from in the morning. It's just hard not knowing you know? I suppose I could go around being angry at everyone I meet "assuming" they had something to do with it, but I'm not going to make any friends that way.


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#9933 - 08/17/06 05:35 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
thetraveller Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 69
Loc: England
I meant more metaphorically. Directing your anger outwards rather than turning it in on yourself.

Does that make sense?

It just seemed to me reading your posts that you were being unfair to yourself. Like the fact you got into the car in the first place meant you deserved to take some of the blame for what happened. Which you certainly don't.

I agree. You wouldn't be a popular guy walking around being angry with everyone as they could have been involved!!

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be not knowing. you must have a lot of completly justified anger towards "them" but who the f**k are they. I can see how that would do your head in.

Try not to turn it against yourself. you certainly don't deserve any blame in this what so ever.

Take care

Craig


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#9934 - 08/17/06 05:54 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Yes it makes sense, thanks Craig.
It is damn frustrating. The not knowing isn't as bad as the "when will they strike next" feeling or the "are they watching me" or "are they waiting to grab me again" feeling. But I try to ignore all that.


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#9935 - 08/17/06 06:23 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Why?

Because I was well groomed.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#9936 - 08/17/06 06:37 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Exactly \:\(
and it all fits together so nice doesn't it?

Paranoia... the day my mother got pregnant with me the old man, Kenny and these guys must have had a meeting and planned this whole thing out... set me up before I was even born. That's how it feels.


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#9937 - 08/17/06 06:46 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

I lived through a variation of that. I felt I was doomed to abuse and it would never end. What made me think that was I thought I didn't deserve for it to end, etc. The old vicious circle.

This is a kid's way of thinking, but that's the idea we lived with and that's what we brought into adulthood.

Your version isn't all that different. The common thread is a feeling of powerlessness and doom. But again, that's how things looked to Little Jay.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9938 - 08/17/06 06:48 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Hey Larry...
fuck little Jay, he's an asshole ok?


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#9939 - 08/18/06 03:20 AM Re: Why did I get into that car
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
jaysen maybe little jay feels the same way,for me the little kid trapped in me is not impressed with how i turned out. and he fucks with me all the time ,having a pissed off 11 year old trapped inside is hard ,its like walking around with a tazmaninan devil locked up in me. shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#9940 - 08/18/06 12:57 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Exactly! I couldn't have said it better!

And the little fucker always comes out at the most inopportune moments! I'm sure he's feeling
the same way about how I turned out.. I don't give a damn \:\)

Jay


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#9941 - 08/18/06 11:44 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Quote:
And the little fucker always comes out at the most inopportune moments!
Interesting. What is it he tells you when he shows up? My guess: things you already know.

Quote:
I'm sure he's feeling the same way about how I turned out.. I don't give a damn
Hmmmm. Sounds to me like you DO give a damn. Maybe you just wish you didn't, in which case you wouldn't feel the need or desire to face any of this crap.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9942 - 08/21/06 12:18 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
What does he tell me? well... to be honest here he usually tells me something like "What the hell are you doing here? are you out of your mind? Tell these guys NO and get the hell out of here you dumbass!"

And you're right, I wish I didn't.

Jay


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#9943 - 08/21/06 03:31 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

So in fact he's telling you things that are true, if perhaps at an inconvenient time - such as when it's too late.

He's only doing that to raise the alarm, of course, not to harm you or shame you. He's just trying to tell you he's afraid, which is exactly what a kid does. He can express how he feels, but he's too young to have ideas for a constructive solution. That may be part of why it's so frustrating to deal with him.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9944 - 08/21/06 04:01 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Always when it's too late.

I don't like the direction this conversation is going in, but I'll continue anyway... so if he can express how he feels now where was he years ago when I needed him?


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#9945 - 08/21/06 04:38 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

To answer that I can only tell you how I felt when I was being abused. See if any of this sounds familiar.

I felt afraid and confused, terribly ashamed and terrified of discovery. I thought (with the abuser's help) that if I got found out the first thing that would happen would be that I would be thrown out of the house. There was a seedy home for orphans and abandoned kids on my school bus route, and I imagined myself ending there.

I also felt incredibly guilty and worthless. I would come home and think "It happened ... again!"; I hated looking in a mirror and I hated being me. I felt like my body was betraying me and that it wasn't even mine - maybe it never was and never would be. I decided I didn't deserve any better than what was happening to me, so I stopped caring.

Like I said, sound familiar in any ways?

And if it does sound familiar, can you imagine any way a boy devastated like this could speak up to raise the alarm? This would take some small bit of confidence and trust. Would a boy like this have either of those at such a time?

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9946 - 08/21/06 04:42 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Quote:
I don't like the direction this conversation is going in, but I'll continue anyway...
That in itself shows how the progress you are making. Your comfort zone is being violated, but you press ahead anyway.

What direction is this conversation going, by the way? I think you already know since you've been through this station already. The name of the next stop is "Not Your Fault", with a direct onward connection to "You Can Do This".

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9947 - 08/21/06 05:38 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
The direction is talking about things that I know are true and just don't want to admit.

By the way is there a bar at that stop?


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#9948 - 08/21/06 06:36 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
No, but there's a KFC and a Krispy-Kreme with the "hot donuts" sign lit 24/7. Also a Wal-Mart with everything 90% off and no junk. And a steak house with 75% discount if you bring your German Shepherd. The clubs there play nothing but blues and classic rock at high volume.

God, don't get me started! I'm off to the States in two days! \:D

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9949 - 08/21/06 07:33 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Okay, the KFC, Krispy Kreme and steak house do nothing for me, but the clubs... that's a different story!


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#9950 - 08/21/06 07:36 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
You forgot the Wal-Mart.

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9951 - 08/21/06 07:41 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Walmart - the evil empire!
That answer your question?


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#9952 - 08/21/06 08:27 PM Re: Why did I get into that car
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680



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