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#9184 - 08/14/06 01:43 PM Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Day 3 w/out alcohol.

God help the person who cuts me off on the way home tonight.

J


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#9185 - 08/14/06 04:56 PM Re: Drinking
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Just make sure that you don't get bored, keep yourself occupied. You can spend many hours in the chat room here at MS, or work on your bike, whatever. Stay busy.


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#9186 - 08/14/06 05:02 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
If I knew this 'not drinking' thing came with all these new feelings I wouldn't have stopped. Or I would have replaced with something... like heroin.

Of course I'm kidding about that... kind of...

I'm feeling very negative, very cynical, completely alone. I don't usually feel those things. Then again I don't usually feel much of anything.


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#9187 - 08/14/06 05:13 PM Re: Drinking
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
I know that flat-line feeling, where you never feel good about anything at all. Jaysen, I take it that you're not suffering from any withdrawl symptoms? If not, THAT IS GREAT NEWS for you!

Now, where are you in life right now? Are you working? Do you LIKE what you do? Are there perhaps other goals you might like to achieve besides just being sober?


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#9188 - 08/14/06 05:26 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
No, I was fine until Saturday. At least I had convinced myself that I was. Now, yeah, that's a good way to describe it, flat-line, I like that.

I don't know, some maybe but not so bad. I kind of feel like ripping my skin off and crawling out of it, or maybe more like my skin is crawling and I can't get away from it? Anxious, very anxious, on edge, DYING for a beer but will have a smoke instead. Could cry like a 3 year old girl at any moment... or not. If it gets worse than how I feel now I'll have to... I don't know what, something. I'm having bad thoughts, like not suicidal thoughts but close.

I don't know, I feel all messed up today but I'm handling it.

Yeah I work at a bike shop, Boston Harley, ever hear of it? I love what I do. Other goals besides being sober? hmmm... not really. Never gave it much thought. Just figured I'd work, make money, drink/party, get laid, die. Maybe not in that order.


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#9189 - 08/14/06 05:35 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

It doesn't sound like withdrawal, just anxiety because instead of numbing out with alcohol you are just taking things as they come, and dealing with them as yourself. Maybe what you feel is insecurity, like, "Can I really do this?"

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9190 - 08/14/06 05:40 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Well whatever it is, it's ridiculous!


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#9191 - 08/14/06 05:42 PM Re: Drinking
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Find a purpose for yourself. If people get to know you and love you, you can get out of that flat-line mode. When you only think of yourself and what makes you happy, you automatically forfeit the opportunity to MATTER to other people, and to make a difference in their lives. Shaodwkid will tell you himself that his life is so much richer now that he's become involved in the lives of a family that he's neighbors with. The kids look to him as a Father figure and look to him for support. He's made a HUGE difference in their lives by simply not only drinking and partying etc., he's feeling good about just being around a new family that loves him.

Another example, I am considering being a big/brother even a foster parent. I won't do it until I have a career going, I have to provide a good example to do it right. But that's what I'm thinking of doing. How about you?


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#9192 - 08/14/06 05:49 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Matter to people? Nah, I'm way too selfish to care about anyone but myself. And if you're close enough to me to care about me, then you're close enough to hurt me too.
So I don't think so.
Nice thought though.

I think it's great that Shadow got involved like that, looked at like a father figure? That's awesome. The big brother thing / foster parent, that's great too... really... I envy you guys. It's just never going to be me.


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#9193 - 08/14/06 06:12 PM Re: Drinking
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Well, you have many hard-coded patterns of thinking to change, and remember, you're only JUST starting to deal with your abuse. It's going to take some time ok?

Only care about yourself? I could swear I saw this guy named Jaysen on the MS DB reply to other people's posts and try to help them. It must have been another Jaysen.


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#9194 - 08/14/06 06:21 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Quote:
And if you're close enough to me to care about me, then you're close enough to hurt me too.
That's a classic statement of the trust issue that so many survivors have. A young boy more or less assumes that the world is his oyster and will never hurt him. But then abuse hits him and he sees how wrong he was. Being a kid, he jumps from one extreme to the other; now he figures that the world is entirely unsafe and that terrible harm can reach out to him anywhere and any time. The only solution seems to be to trust no one, to close down emotionally and to keep all comers at a "safe" distance.

That's the lesson the kid grows up with and carries with him into adulthood. It's a hard one to unlearn, because obviously the world CAN be dangerous. We have to relearn how to trust, but also how to develop and maintain safe boundaries for ourselves.

A very wise man and cool friend once said to me in a phone conversation: "It's all about boundaries." The more I think about it the more I realize he's right.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9195 - 08/14/06 06:25 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Post>
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9196 - 08/14/06 06:42 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I know, I know,
When I'm trashed all the boundaries and trust issues go out the window. I'll hook up with anyone, go anywhere, do anything... it's bad. You'd think I would have learned the first time! damn it


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#9197 - 08/14/06 07:07 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

Unfortunately the past is water under the bridge and we can't change it. Nor is there any point in beating ourselves up over our past mistakes. What we have to do is learn from them and move on. It's the here and now, not yesterday or a week or year ago, where we have the power to make changes and take charge of our own lives.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9198 - 08/14/06 07:16 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Yeah, but I like beating myself up over past mistakes... it feels good.


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#9199 - 08/14/06 08:28 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Yep. It sure does. It's so easy to do that, and it allows us to continue the illusion that some solution lies in endlessly blaming and trashing ourselves. The idea of stopping sucks in a way. It means we have to take risks we don't know we can endure and feel things we aren't sure we can handle.

The reward for doing all that, however, is that we get our lives back. ;\)

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#9200 - 08/14/06 08:33 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Do you have to be right ALL the time?


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#9201 - 08/14/06 08:38 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
If you MUST know ... yes. ;\)

L.

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9202 - 08/14/06 09:12 PM Re: Drinking
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Can someone guide me in the ancient art of living without Al K Hol in his veins.
Take away my dummy! No way! But seriously, it is good if you can, and see the real World.

I have cut down a load over the years, as I saw the toll it was taking, but my body warned me off.
When you get a sign like that, take heed.

Try and be moderate in all things as confusious says, dang,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#9203 - 08/16/06 10:16 PM Re: Drinking
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Jaysen:
I know, I know,
When I'm trashed all the boundaries and trust issues go out the window. I'll hook up with anyone, go anywhere, do anything... it's bad. You'd think I would have learned the first time! damn it
Someone is talking my language.

Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Took me narly 30 years to beat the bottle but I am well aware of falling into complacency. Booze and my alcoholism is cunning, baffling and all powerful. I used to say "I will never drink again", but .... today I say "I will not have a drink for the next 24 hours", been saying that now for 12 years with a couple of very quick relapses on the way, I say quick in as much as they stopped as soon as they started.

Feeling shit and confused with emotions etc is par for the course with giving up booze, but stay with it .... it does pass and sure as hell it does get better.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#9204 - 08/17/06 04:27 AM Re: Drinking
OKIE MIKE Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 982
Loc: HULBERT OK
Just rember (HALT) do not let your self get Hungry Angry Lonely or Tired

_________________________
MICHAEL

"I HAD NO SHOES THEN I SAW A MAN THAT HAD NO FEET"

"All I can do is be me, whoever that is"

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#9205 - 08/17/06 01:10 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
You're a lucky bastard, I didn't even get the T-shirt! \:\)

I made it almost 5 days then fell off the wagon big-time last night! This morning it feels like it was about a 100 story fall. Did anyone get the license plate of that truck that just ran my ass over? damn...

Jay


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#9206 - 08/18/06 03:40 AM Re: Drinking
caointeoir Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 37
jaysen,

i'm hurting for you here. i've been in the same place a lot over the past years. and i'm still there.

Quote:
posted by Jaysen:
If I knew this 'not drinking' thing came with all these new feelings I wouldn't have stopped. Or I would have replaced with something... like heroin.

Of course I'm kidding about that... kind of...
i know that kind of feeling, too, although i had it the other way around. i don't know much about being addicted to alcohol, but i know my share about heroin. you do not want to do that.
if you feel tempted, please pm me and we'll talk about it.
you are too valuable a person to go down that road. i don't want that for you. i don't want it for anyone, but i especially don't want it for you.

Quote:

I'm feeling very negative, very cynical, completely alone. I don't usually feel those things. Then again I don't usually feel much of anything.
i'm with you there.
there are a lot of feelings that are not good. that are scary.
however there are just as many feelings that are very good. that you will feel again when you let them find you, by staying off the booze. real life, so i'm learning every passing day, is just as powerful a drug.

yes alcohol will make you not feel for a while. as will heroin. but... the horror always comes back.

you want to feel because the good feelings are what makes life worthwile. at least it has been like that for me. because good just feels so good when you're not drunk or stoned. it feels pure. it feels real. it feels better than any artificial rush. way better.

i'm hurting with you about the relapse. i'm thinking good thoughts of you. if you need someone to talk to, i'm here and i would feel privileged to talk to you. be good to yourself.


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#9207 - 08/18/06 12:58 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
Thanks, really that means a lot!

Jay


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#9208 - 08/18/06 03:34 PM Re: Drinking
Hauser Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2962
Loc: United States
Cao made a great point when he said that real life feelings are much better than artificial rushes. I have yet to fully realize what he means but I believe him. I've seen it happen.


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#9209 - 08/18/06 03:59 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
It's hard to believe, but I'll try anything once.


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#9210 - 08/18/06 04:37 PM Re: Drinking
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Dont replace drink with heroin.
You dont want to find yourself as a junkie, or worse.

I once drunk day and night seven days a week, one day I was just so tired, I turned back, and never drank in the day since then, still dont.

My body and mind warned me that I was overdoing it, and believe me it did, that was 20 years ago, but I still drink, but not much.

Think of the money you are wasting to toxify your body, I know its not easy dealing with hurt, but drink can aggrevate depression.

There are huge benefits in cutting down or stopping all together,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#9211 - 08/18/06 04:51 PM Re: Drinking
Jaysen Offline
Member

Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 680
I was joking about the heroin thing, sorry it was a bad joke. It was given to me, I mean it was forced so I didn't have a choice, I never want to take it again.

I believe you Ste that there are huge benefits to stopping.

Jay


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#9212 - 08/18/06 11:29 PM Re: Drinking
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Jay,

It's good to have positive goals and give them your best, but remember: all the crap you are trying to deal with didn't happen in a day. I don't just mean the abuse; I also have in mind the years of wondering, agonizing, doubting and self-judgment.

If you fall off the wagon, okay, not good, but at the end of the day what can you do? Wipe the wheel marks off your shirt and climb back on.

Real recovery means getting real about things. Not just about the things that can hurt us and the things we need to change, but also about our expectations of ourselves. I wouldn't want to know the number of times I crapped out when I was trying to deal with my drinking and drug problem - at exactly your age, by the way. What got me through was a safe teacher who let me know that I always had a place to crash and that he was never going to give up on me. I think I was doing it for him and his wife for a long time before I figured out I had to be doing it for myself.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#9213 - 08/27/06 06:17 AM Re: Drinking
Jonathon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 74
Loc: New York
Jaysen --

I haven't had a drink, a day at a time, for 4 1/2 years. In the beginning it was really hard, a full on chemical withdrawal. I felt a bit like a zombie and couldn't remember things. I even walked into a door frame and cut my forehead! I don't want to ram something down your throat, but I couldn't have done it without the support I've found in AA. The meetings are weird, but as you know from being here, there is something to be said for shared experience. Most importantly, in the beginning there were other kids who had 15 days off the booze and we would qwetch on the phone when we felt like drinking and get together and eat ice cream. Its not so dramatic now, and we've all gone on with our lives, but it was a good to experience that support and comraderie. Good luck with this.
Best, J


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