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#85511 - 05/27/03 03:22 PM Joining Europe
Clapton Fan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Shrewsbury, United Kingdom
Here in the UK there is a debate just about to start up with regard to the European Constitution.

I'm already biased and have no desire to join Europe. I have more leanings towards the USA personally.

One thing however worries me. If we (the UK) go down this road of closer cooperation and ties with Europe does that mean they (European men in grey suits - the politicians) will change the laws on the age of consent or will they drop it to the lowest that is currently on the statues of some countries.

For example Portugal (where there happens to be a paedophile scandal rocking the government at present)and Malta have the lowest ages of consent at 12 (twelve)?

12...... It doesnt even warrent thinking about

A full table of ages of consent is available here:
http://www.outrage.org.uk/consent99.htm

and the Portugal scandal can be followed up here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/0,7368,350542,00.html

And all that was left was hope \:\)

Kirk


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#85512 - 05/27/03 07:29 PM Re: Joining Europe
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
For example Portugal (where there happens to be a paedophile scandal rocking the government at present)and Malta have the lowest ages of consent at 12 (twelve)?

12...... It doesnt even warrent thinking about
Wow what a coincidence! NOT!

There's probably a scandal in Malta too--it just hasn't been uncovered yet!



Quote:
A full table of ages of consent is available here:
http://www.outrage.org.uk/consent99.htm

Twenty European countries have equal ages of consent lower than 16. With certain qualifications, four states allow consent at 12 (Malta, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain), and eight at 14. These ages apply both to straight and gay sex.
Evidently the thinking is that the more & the younger people are exposed to sex, the fewer sexual hangups and the more sexual freedom people will have as they get older.

OK let's see sexual relations started for me when I was one year old or less. My home, wherever it was, was a constant XXX porn show!

So I must be one of the least hung up & most sexually free men in the world.

NOT!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#85513 - 05/27/03 10:06 PM Re: Joining Europe
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Kirk,
I find this very interesting. It really would be a shame if the guys in Brussels have this much power to impose this on member countries. With such a culturally diverse continent, how could they justify imposing the Portugese or Maltese values on you guys? It seems like it could make the system implode if they did. I also find it interesting how European integration began on economic grounds and has now evolved to encompass these types of issues.
Mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#85514 - 05/29/03 08:08 PM Re: Joining Europe
Happy Birthday Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Kirk
I had no idea some European countries had such low ages of consent.
And I find it hard to deal with as well.

I'm generally in favour of the UK becoming closer to Europe, but not on these terms ! Perhaps if we could influence them up to ours ( 16 ) there would be good grounds to try. But it would never happen.
The Eurocrats are too busy trying to make us drink our warm flat beer in litres instead of pints !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#85515 - 05/29/03 08:17 PM Re: Joining Europe
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
I think 16 is a good age of consent... but any lower is no good. \:\( But then I think about how I can't absolve myself for things that went on before I was 16 and then I'm not sure.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#85516 - 05/29/03 08:40 PM Re: Joining Europe
KleinerSpatz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 15
Loc: BRD
There is more to European unification than the age of concent.

Malta, like the Chech republic, Hungary, Poland, Austria, Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Luxembourg, Denmark, Finland, The Netherlands, Sweden, Eire and The United Kingdom all have childmolesters among the population.

Any age of concent is too low if you are raped. I had concentual sex when I was 14, but was still being raped when I was 18.

I think age of concent is a cheap way for people to buy a clear concience from not doing anything to protect children.


If the United Kingdom does not want to join Europe for reasons of money, measurements or the volume or temperature of beer, where they drive or whatever, thats up to them, but please don't act as if the United Kingdom is morally superior to any other country in the world. Its not and has never been.

Or would you suggest a kid thats abused in the United Kingdom (or wherever) has anything at all to gain from any age of concent?

I think not.

Kids that are endangered by molesters are so because they are kids. not because they are at the age of concent.

By the way, I noticed a lot of Englishmen drinking beer today (Half liters) with supprising enjoyment...


Erich

_________________________
Die Gedanken sind Frei!

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#85517 - 05/30/03 03:02 PM Re: Joining Europe
Clapton Fan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Shrewsbury, United Kingdom
"Kids that are endangered by molesters are so because they are kids. not because they are at the age of consent".


I couldnt agree more.


I noticed you didnt mention Russia or do you suggest we just turn a blind eye. I believe one of my abusers is out there at the moment making child porn movies.

The age of consent doesnt bother him at all.

As for morals remember that London was the centre of child prostitution in the 19th century and doesnt appear to have changed much as I was one of those prostitutes in the 20th century and there seemed more than enough punters about.

And all that was left was hope \:\)

Kirk


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#85518 - 05/30/03 06:33 PM Re: Joining Europe
KleinerSpatz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 15
Loc: BRD
No, i do not suggest we turn a blind eye.

I hope that asshole you mentioned gets caught by the odd not corrupt Russian militia man, and then we will see how he likes Russian prison for about the rest of his life (which probably will be very short)

I did not leave out Russia, Bulgaria, whatevers left of Yugoslavia, Slovakia, Albania, Estonia, Latvia, Lituania, Norway, Iceland, Andorra, San marino, Monaco, Liechtenstein, the Isle of Man, Belarussia, Ukraine, plus whatever I left out not the intire rest of the world for that reason.

and for child prostitution? I am very sorry to hear you know what thats like.

London, Munchen, Berlin, Liverpool, Hannover or Bristol, I guess our "kid" brothers are out tonight. And it hurts me more than I can put into words.

Whatever the city, whatever the country, "we" are always there. somewhere very near hell and damn close to the dirt on the pavement.

not even a eurocrat can deny or do anything about it, but it would be a good thing if they tried.

Erich

_________________________
Die Gedanken sind Frei!

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#85519 - 05/30/03 09:21 PM Re: Joining Europe
Happy Birthday Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Erich
No, I don't claim any moral high ground for the UK at all, the abusers and child porn industry is alive and flourishing here as it is everywhere else.

But I do believe that an age of consent of 16 does give some more protection to kids. It makes the abuse of power, and the use of coercion easier to 'police' Although abusers obviously have no respect for it.

Kid's will have sex when they they feel like it, and if there's mutual consent then we wont stop them, even if we do believe it's wrong.
But it's hard to draw the line as to where the age difference makes it abusive ? Is an 18yo having sex with a 15yo abusive ?

The struggle that many countries are having to recover from Communism or years of war have certainly created a climate where child sex has become an industry worth millions of $ and Dm.
But there's no doubt that the more settled and stable countries have the same problem.
And it's so easy for us to appease our comfy middle class values by blaming it all on the other guys.

We do need to look to ourselves before laying it all at the door of other countries.
But I have no doubt about the size of the industry, and the ease in which they operate, in places like Russia.

And I can drink beer in any size glass, as long as it's cold. "Warm beer" - That's one British tradition I'll be glad to see the back of !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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