Newest Members
Green_Lantern, Safe11ride, WillWins, neophiliac, Jerone
12118 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
betterdays (29), ChevyMan76 (46), cuda (48), swartzhund (42), wdf9 (70)
Who's Online
0 registered (), 67 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12118 Members
73 Forums
62517 Topics
438110 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#85483 - 02/23/03 06:43 PM What's going on here ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
The Sunday Times - World

February 23, 2003

Abortion for raped girl, 9, splits nation
Jeremy Lennard
DESTITUTE and unable to find jobs in their native Nicaragua, Francisco Fletes, a farm labourer, and his wife Rosa Reyes slipped across the border to Costa Rica last year in search of work.

The couple’s gamble appeared to have paid off when they were hired to pick coffee and settled in the small village of La Suiza. But four months ago their dream of a new life turned into a nightmare.

Their nine-year-old daughter went to borrow matches from a neighbour and was raped, allegedly by a local farm hand. After she was admitted to hospital last month, suffering from lethargy and suspected anaemia, doctors discovered that she was pregnant.

The family’s subsequent return to Nicaragua and quest for an abortion resulted in a controversy that has divided the country, pitting its powerful Roman Catholic Church, which was said to have threatened any doctor who performed the operation with excommunication, against women’s organisations which argued that the parents should have the right to choose.

Fearing that their daughter was simply too small to give birth and that her life was at risk, the parents said they might be forced to take up an offer from President Fidel Castro of Cuba to have the abortion carried out there.

Last Friday evening the family let it be known that a private clinic in Managua, the Nicaraguan capital, had finally terminated the pregnancy the previous day.

However, the acrimonious debate surrounding the girl’s case continued with calls for Nicaragua’s family ministry to proceed with a threatened prosecution of those who had helped the family secure the abortion.

It was in Costa Rica, where their daughter was first examined, that Fletes and his wife suffered their first setback at the hands of the medical establishment. They claim doctors deliberately withheld news of her pregnancy for two weeks.

By the time they were told, the pregnancy had passed a 12-week limit beyond which abortions are effectively prohibited in Costa Rica. They also learnt that she had contracted two sexually transmitted diseases.

Despite medical evidence that a nine-year-old’s womb is only a quarter of the size of an adolescent’s, and indications that both the girl and her baby could die if the pregnancy ran its natural course, the Costa Rican authorities refused permission for an abortion.

Fletes and Reyes hoped for a more sympathetic reception in their home country, but were dismayed to hear that an abortion would only be permitted in Nicaragua if it could be demonstrated that the foetus had severe abnormalities.

The couple were informed that three independent specialists would have to confirm this as well as agreeing on the fact that the child had been a victim of sexual abuse and was in peril.

Catholic leaders then led calls for the pregnancy to go to term, warning that any doctors who assisted in an abortion would be excluded from the sacraments.

“If we don’t oppose abortion, we are breaking the fifth commandment, which says we should not kill,” declared Cardinal Miguel Obando y Bravo, the Archbishop of Managua.

Bishop Bernardo Hombak, another senior churchman, said: “Although it’s a nine-year-old girl that is pregnant, there is no motive for an abortion. Here it is the parents who are responsible because they didn’t know how to look after her properly.”

The fate of “Rosa” — as she has become known in the press — dominated public debate in Nicaragua last week. The columns of La Prensa, the country’s leading newspaper, were filled with letters from those arguing for and against her right to have the pregnancy terminated.

Pro-abortion demonstrators took to the streets of Managua to demand the sacking of Lucia Salvo, the minister of health, who was widely said to have put pressure on doctors not to carry out the abortion on the nine-year-old.

Alexander Barquero, 20, the farm hand accused by “Rosa” of raping her, was arrested by Costa Rican police but denied the charges. “I didn’t have anything to do with her, I swear,” he told local reporters. “I barely even spoke to her. I’m innocent.” He said he feared reprisals after Fletes threatened “to take vengeance for his daughter’s plight with his own hands”.

For the time being, at least, Fletes has more pressing matters on his mind. His daughter was resting this weekend after the operation.

“The girl is fine,” said Violeta Delgado, a spokesman for Women’s Network Against Violence, which championed her cause. “She is happy and in an excellent state of health. The parents are very happy also to have this situation resolved.”

Additional reporting: Clara Wooller

***************************************

I know this is so upsetting on so many different levels, the whole abortion subject is a minefield on it's own.
But the attitude of the Cardinal, the Bishop and all the authorities is beyond every scrap of understanding I can find, I have no comprehension of what this man is thinking at all.
Who'd have thought Fidel would be the only one to come out of this with any scrap of human decency ?

It makes me so sad.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#85484 - 02/23/03 07:54 PM Re: What's going on here ?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Dave: The church just does not get it and probably never will. The only way to force the issue is that everyone start voting with their feet. No attendance NO MONEY. It is truly amazing the influence money has on Christianity. Look at CHEY-WY being stonewalled by his church. One way might be to organize amongst ourselves and start a protest that will shake the very foundations of any church. All they are interested in how mich will it cost us to get out of it. To see this up close and personal look at how my Church (Catholic stonewalls right to the couthouse doors) Then they settle for CASH and think that they are absolved from any issue. What about the destroyed lives, like this family in your post. Think of all the teenage suicides of both sexes and ass youself. WAS IT?? Never once have I heard the leader of the Catholic Church say " As god is our witness we are so very sorry for the pain you have been through. How can we HELP. The truth is they cannot; being mired in mediavel thinking. But just the offer. None to be seen. They believe anything can be bought for cash.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#85485 - 02/24/03 08:02 PM Re: What's going on here ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Mike
I believe that all religions have completly lost the plot. And I don't mean what I write here as a personal attack on believers, what I'm on about are the institutions that religions have become.

They are huge, unwieldy, socio-political organizations. Land owners, bankers and business' all rolled into one. They are staffed by the same kind of ambitious ladder climbers that most big commercial corporations are staffed with.
Whatever faith many of them had has long gone.

I don't doubt that there are many true believers in the ranks of the congregations, and that their faith carries them through life. Good luck to them as well, I don't believe but I'm not going to stop anyone from doing it.

But the blind ambition to climb any organizations greasy pole is too close to corruption, turning a blind eye, ( instead of the other cheek ) and a sense of misplaced loyalty to the organization to lie easily with the preachings of any religion.

If these Bishops, Cardinals and other high ranking religious leaders want credibility then they have to return to their roots.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#85486 - 02/24/03 08:40 PM Re: What's going on here ?
brian-z Offline
Member

Registered: 07/11/02
Posts: 770
Loc: Western USA
I think the bigger problem is that is being reported at all.


Top
#85487 - 02/24/03 10:35 PM Re: What's going on here ?
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Lloyd: Yes you are right and I have met many ministers of all faith who are very interested in their flock and being topical and providing support when warranted. I just wish the GD hierarchy could get it right once before I die. If they dont and if there is a hereafter I am gonna have a long talk with someone in authority up there.
Brian my brother thank god you are still with us. I worried so much about you!!

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

Top
#85488 - 02/24/03 10:38 PM Re: What's going on here ?
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
It is solid Catholic Moral doctrine that in a case liike this with a 9 yo girl, the fetus is able to be considered an unjust agressor and can be aborted if it is safe for the mother.

The Cardinal needs to return to the seminary and take Morals 100, he is not even ready for 101.

His Emminences obedient servant.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

Top
#85489 - 02/25/03 07:50 PM Re: What's going on here ?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Thank you Bob, you restore my faith in common deceny.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

Top
#85490 - 02/25/03 10:16 PM Re: What's going on here ?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
I am skilled at remedial morals...

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

Top
#85491 - 03/07/03 05:22 AM Re: What's going on here ?
woz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 23
Loc: Australia
unkow as a parent, i am out rage that a church thinks it knows best for my child above me, then there is that how would any man know of let alone think to have the power to know of what is right for a woman, let alone a nine yo girl who was rapeed by a man..., and then that a commanment given at a time when noah wasnt even born and use that as the sole basis of compassion tend s to suggest tha devolution not evolving to a higher cause to me... and fianly i am glad that the girl was not forced to die at the behest of a man somewhere with unlimmited wealth begotten by others in the name of the creator, who i am sure would be disgusted. at the mere tought of that action. i pray for her healing and i pray for all those who helped her, and fiannaly finally i say its there god let tem burn in hell cause my god does not damn anyone... he just loves them all

warren

_________________________
as in all things we are all connected.
Ho, Mitakaye Oyasin

Top


Moderator:  Chase Eric, ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.