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#85365 - 07/05/02 10:27 AM Freud's Seduction Thing
integrator Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 107
Loc: New York
Yeah, Oedipus complex. Right. Infantile sexuality and incestuous desires. Adults are the victims. Right.
Freud made his pioneering discoveries in Europe at the turn of the 19th and 20th Centuries. Looking at the biography by Ernest Jones, he points out that in 1896, Freud figured out that one story after another by his patients indicated that parents were sexually violating, his so-called "seducing", their kids. It was their recollections of these events that were curing their neurotic pain. Mr. Jones explains Freud's change in view as resulting from his incredulity at the high number of cases, the hostility of kids at their same sex parents, and his own incest dreams. These are all in the face of the evidence of his therapy. The patients' symptoms were alleviated because of the recollection of the adults' action. Seems obvious. Jones a little later mentions the little detail that Freud was ostracized by his fellow therapists for his views of seduction sexuality. Small detail.
He was looking at his own dreams and their implications at the time. He started to doubt any guilt by his father, disavowed "seduction", and found the culprit, the evil little child and its demonic infantile desires. Ah yes. Well, well. That's the news for today here on the NOMSV network.
Best wishes to you for a healthy recovery.


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#85366 - 07/05/02 10:33 AM Re: Freud's Seduction Thing
integrator Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 107
Loc: New York
Of course, that's ridiculous. It is interesting to read how vulnerable Freud became as he pursued his pioneering conclusions, and his self-analysis concurrently. The guy changed his ideas because he was under duress. His colleagues seem to have alienated and rejected him and his "seduction" ideas. At least one of those colleagues was later accused of abusing his child, a male child if I recall. This all seems to fit the pattern of social pressures to conform, even at that level of professionalism. Of course, we still see this today, as in the Catholic Church's previous shuffling of personnel without addressing the issue of abuse and violation.


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#85367 - 07/06/02 04:31 AM Re: Freud's Seduction Thing
Broken Offline
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Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 273
Loc: Huntingtun Beach, CA, US
the greatest irony about fraud is his inablilty to recognize sexual abuse. Despite what a lot of people think, that pressure from his colleagues and the social environment are what caused it, i think there is more to it. I think fraud himself was abused. Its a bit a hunch, but it has some circumstantial evidence to back it. While analyzing himself and his relationship with his father i think he tripped himself up, because his views on sexual abuse changed right about the time he said he had a breakthrough with his father. The man also was on cocaine and was pretty depressed. He said once that "i am convinced, with a few rare exceptions, that my fellow man is worthless" The split with Jung also kind of rings a pattern of denial about Freuds own life. This is all speculation, but i just get a feeling like its true, it just seems like the same feelings you get when you see dysfunctional relationships and rationalization.


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#85368 - 07/06/02 11:57 AM Re: Freud's Seduction Thing
integrator Offline
Member

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 107
Loc: New York
I heartily agree on the father thing. Freud seems to have totally folded when it came to thinking of his father as having been capable of bad deeds. Jones' book itself mentions the whole timing thing about Freud's dreams and analysis about his father. It totally stands to reason that Freud the "fraud", as Broken referred to him, copped out as things were heating up in his psyche. It definitely takes a certain amount of work and awareness to open up to the fear of a father, abandonment and what have you. He hated religion, too, and was deeply suspicious of the sexual impulse. And look how he conceived religion, as a father figure. Hmm. (The recent revelations in the Catholic Church notwithstanding). Of course, those fears are kind of key to what Jung came to call "individuation." I guess Jung made some progress on that front. Yet, Freud wasn't that much in a subjugated, docile haze of his father's shadow. He did get the hell out when the Nazi's started getting too big for their britches. He was in his 80's, too. Not like who? Wagner and Krupp and other apparent father drones.


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