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#85291 - 05/24/03 01:26 AM Sometimes I Hate Posting
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
From the San Francisco Chronicle
Saturday May 24, 2003

Expert on dealing with clergy abuse accused. Bay Area priest faces molestation charge.

A Catholic priest facing child molesting charges in Marin County is the co-author of new church guidelines on dealing with priests who sexually abuse children.

The Rev. Gregory Ingels, who also is a church lawyer, is scheduled to appear Wednesday in Marin County Superior Court on charges that he had oral sex with a 15-year-old boy from Marin Catholic High School in the summer of 1972, two years before he was ordained.

Ingels was one of only four experts chosen by the Canon Law Society of America to advise U.S. bishops on abusive clerics. And for the past two decades, he worked on the tribunal of the archdiocese, which considers requests for marriage annulments by Catholics in San Francisco, Marin and San Mateo counties.

According to a one-count criminal complaint filed May 12, Ingels engaged in "substantial sexual conduct" with a child under age 16.

The boy, who was student of Ingels' at the time and now lives in Sonoma County, was allegedly molested during a family gathering in Muir Beach.

"Who would have ever suspected that?" said the Rev. Robert Silva, president of the National Federation of Priests' Councils, who knows the accused priest. "I was stunned."

According to the complaint, Ingels made many incriminating statements to the victim during recent conversations that were tape-recorded by police.

Those statements included: "What I did to you was terrible" and "I did this to you, (and) it was an authority issue."

APOLOGIZED ON TAPE

Ingels also apologized to the victim on the tape, said he was ashamed of himself and offered the victim -- now in his late 40s -- the services of a psychologist.

Nearly a year ago, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops met in Dallas, amid an ever-widening scandal over abusive priests and bishops who covered up their crimes.

At that meeting, the bishops adopted a new national policy which directs that priests or deacons be permanently removed from ministry for committing "even a single act of sexual abuse of a minor -- past, present and future."

Five months later, at another meeting in Washington, the bishops revised their "zero tolerance" policy to meet Vatican objections, protect the rights of accused priests and bring the new rules in line with existing church law.

Ingels was one of four canon lawyers who served on a task force formed to translate the bishops' policies into church law.

Their 47-page guide, titled "Guide to the Implementation of the U.S. Bishops' Essential Norms for Diocesan/Eparchial Policies Dealing with Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Priests or Deacons," was published in March.

It outlines procedures to protect the rights of victims and accused priests, while advising local bishops of their responsibilities under the new rules.

ORDAINED IN 1974

Ingels was ordained as a priest in May 1974 but started teaching at Marin Catholic High School as a deacon about two years before that.

Maurice Healy, the spokesman for the Archdiocese of San Francisco, said local church leaders first heard of the 1972 allegation against Ingels in mid-1996.

At the time, the church investigated, but Ingels was allowed to continue his ministry.

Two years ago, Ingels was named director of formation for the permanent diaconate, and continued his work with the tribunal. "Every allegation is unique," Healy said. "It may have been handled differently if there had been more than one allegation."

Ingels' church file was among those turned over to local prosecutors in May 2002, as pressure mounted on local bishops to reveal all past allegations of child molestation by priests.

ORDERED ON LEAVE

Healy said the canon lawyer was removed from that post last October and ordered by Archbishop William Levada to go on leave.

Until this month, however, Ingels continued to work on cases for the tribunal at St. Bartholomew Church in San Mateo. He last said Mass there on the Fourth of July weekend.

Healy said Ingels' tribunal work only involved contact with the judicial vicar of the archdiocese, and was done off-site at his residence near St. Patrick's Seminary in Menlo Park.

Healy said internal review was still under way when the criminal charges were filed last week.

Only then, Healy said, was Ingels told to stop celebrating Mass and to stop working on new cases before the tribunal.

Ingels was criminally charged under a controversial state law that allows some sex crimes to be filed beyond the normal statute of limitations.

Under the law, which is now being challenged before the U.S. Supreme Court, local prosecutors have one year to filed charges after an allegation is first made.

"We do not believe that the legal system will be able to address what allegedly occurred over 30 years ago," said Ingels' attorney, Arthur Wachtel.

Last week, another Catholic priest was arraigned in Marin County Superior Court on 42-year-old charges that he molested a 10-year-old girl at Our Lady of Loretto Parish in Novato in 1961.

The retired 72-year-old priest, the Rev. Arthur Harrison, told the Marin Independent Journal, "Most of it is false."

Chronicle staff writer Pamela Podger contributed to this report. / E-mail Don Lattin at dlattin@sfchronicle.com and Elizabeth Fernandez at efernandez@sfchronicle.com.


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#85292 - 05/24/03 09:27 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
From the San Francisco Chronicle
Saturday May 24, 2003

Expert on dealing with clergy abuse accused. Bay Area priest faces molestation charge.

A Catholic priest facing child molesting charges in Marin County is the co-author of new church guidelines on dealing with priests who sexually abuse children.
Well, after all, he is an expert on it!

Quote:
"Who would have ever suspected that?" said the Rev. Robert Silva, president of the National Federation of Priests' Councils, who knows the accused priest. "I was stunned."..
That's the problem!

Quote:
According to the complaint, Ingels made many incriminating statements to the victim during recent conversations that were tape-recorded by police.

Those statements included: "What I did to you was terrible" and "I did this to you, (and) it was an authority issue."

APOLOGIZED ON TAPE

Ingels also apologized to the victim on the tape, said he was ashamed of himself and offered the victim -- now in his late 40s -- the services of a psychologist..
All this is ok as far as it goes...

...if he did it sincerely...

...if he would done it publicly...

...if he would have done it a long time ago!

Of course it should go w/o saying it would have been infinitely better had he never abused the boy at all!

Quote:
Nearly a year ago, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops met in Dallas, amid an ever-widening scandal over abusive priests and bishops who covered up their crimes.

At that meeting, the bishops adopted a new national policy which directs that priests or deacons be permanently removed from ministry for committing "even a single act of sexual abuse of a minor -- past, present and future."

Five months later, at another meeting in Washington, the bishops revised their "zero tolerance" policy to meet Vatican objections, protect the rights of accused priests and bring the new rules in line with existing church law.

Ingels was one of four canon lawyers who served on a task force formed to translate the bishops' policies into church law.

Their 47-page guide, titled "Guide to the Implementation of the U.S. Bishops' Essential Norms for Diocesan/Eparchial Policies Dealing with Allegations of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Priests or Deacons," was published in March.

It outlines procedures to protect the rights of victims and accused priests, while advising local bishops of their responsibilities under the new rules.
Well that explains a lot--that he helped write the guidelines that revised the original zero tolerance policy, under which he himself would have been guilty & out! Not that I have anything against protecting the rights of those who are truly falsely accused and found not guilty of course...

Quote:
ORDAINED IN 1974

Ingels was ordained as a priest in May 1974 but started teaching at Marin Catholic High School as a deacon about two years before that.

Maurice Healy, the spokesman for the Archdiocese of San Francisco, said local church leaders first heard of the 1972 allegation against Ingels in mid-1996.

At the time, the church investigated, but Ingels was allowed to continue his ministry.
He had an allegation against him for over 20 years
and he was allowed to continue his ministry? And then help write church sexual misconduct guidelines?

This must have something to do with what Jesus meant when He talked about the blind leading the blind and both falling into a pit!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#85293 - 05/24/03 12:38 PM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Thats what I mean about my religion. Dammit I get so pissed at all this stuff. And the few perp priests and their MASTERS are making it bad for all the good ones. IS ROME TOTALLY BLIND???

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#85294 - 05/27/03 12:32 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I have to admire the courage of the guys who come out with the truth about these predators---especially someone like this guy in SF who was in a position of authority regarding SA in the church.

I have tried for the last 7 years to find a way to feel OK in my faith community. I am a member of the Baha'i Faith--lots of my abuse occurred in the context of the Baha'i community--yet I have not yet been able to disclose nor confront in any meaningful way.

It pisses me off that I have to even worry about this crap---and the risk of exposure scares me.
It's hard for me to admit that--I'm a 48 year old man. You'd think I could just let the chips fall where they may.

There is not professional clergy in my religion--but there are people with authority. They abused it and he abused me (and lots of other boys too).
All the while, the other members chose to turn a blind eye--now I'm too chickenshit to say it out loud and expose this man who had sex with me from the age of 15.

It's part of the curse of sexual abuse--somehow I end up feeling like my inadequacy, weakness was a part of the abuse.

And I continue to participate in this crap with my silence.

It really pisses me--it makes me sad to be so estranged from my religion.

Thanks for posting the article about the priest--and especially about those he abused.

It takes a great deal of courage to come forward--I still feel some shame that I didn't and still haven't found that courage for myself.

Thanks for reading.

Danny

------------

"La nuit est aussi un soleil." Nietzsche

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#85295 - 05/27/03 03:45 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Danny,
Is there anyway that you would feel comfortable in PM'ing Ken Singer. He's our resident expert and may have a good idea or two about getting that perp person out of his position of authority. I've often wondered how we can prevent abuse and I suppose exposing perps could be a start. I would have concern for the boys that he may be abusing now. You could perform a real service to that community by getting that guy outta there. I'm sure that there are discreet ways in which to handle this situation. I would encourage you to write to Ken. His name here is KSinger. Please seek his advise.
David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#85296 - 05/27/03 09:00 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Danny:

In any faith community, especially its spiritual leaders, we should expect to find all the things that abuse is not--love, nurture, being taught the right things, etc.

It is more than tragic & a travesty when such is not the case, when the evils of SA take the guise of true spirituality and lay waste to human lives.

Danny I'm so sorry that's what you're going thru.
All the more so becuz I myself am a spiritual leader in a faith community (Christian, not Bahai)myself, tho I grew up far outside of any faith community or faith.

However, fellow survivor, your life is not ruined yet, even tho you are 48 and have not yet to your satisfaction disclosed your abuse or confronted your abusers.

I haven't either; I'm 46, my SA (not by people in a faith community) started when I was 1, by my parents, in the family, another place you should be able to depend on for love, nurture, etc.

But Danny we are here, disclosing about our SA, sharing our stories, working toward confrontation of our perps in whatever times & ways will be healthy for us.

Danny, a step you might consider that could be therapeutic for you (with the guidance of a good therapist), is a "symbolic" (yet believe me very real & powerful) confrontation with your perp. My story of doing so last year is found here:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?

Also Ken Singer whom David mentions has an excellent article for us on Disclosure & Confrontation found here:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/Survivors/Adult%20Survivors/Articles/singer3.htm

Danny I wouldn't dare to propose that you go back to any faith community much less the one you were in. But as MikeChurch says its a few that spoil things for all of them. And unfortunately can spoil a spiritual journey with a faith community for any of us.

Hope some of this helps you Danny. That you can find help here at MS, of that I am sure.

Take care.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#85297 - 05/29/03 12:55 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Victor;

Quote:
Danny I'm so sorry that's what you're going thru.
All the more so becuz I myself am a spiritual leader in a faith community (Christian, not Bahai)myself, tho I grew up far outside of any faith community or faith.
Your words of encouragement are most welcome. Sometimes I feel like the experience of sexual abuse is like a horrid, rusted coil of barbed wire wrapped all throughout my life. As I begin to gain the courage to try to unravel one end, it begins to hurt in another place.

Instead of trying to undo all that tangled web all right now, I try to focus more on being kind and loving to myself. I have absented myself from my faith community for a year now--the people there miss me and ask about me---I honestly don't know what to tell them. So for now, I say nothing.

Quote:
Also Ken Singer whom David mentions has an excellent article for us on Disclosure & Confrontation found here:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/Survivors/Adult%20Survivors/Articles/singer3.htm

You are so right on this....this article is one of the things that really attracted me to this web site.

I feel that I am preparing for some sort of disclosure/confrontation and having that kind of guidance is great. I'm a big ole redneck from Texas almost 50 years old and it scares the shit out of me to imagine telling what happened to me in my religious community so long ago.

I get really pissed off though when I do around because it seems that a lot of the "pretending everything is Ok mentality" is a standard fixture when people gather together for moral education.
I know that feelings aren't facts and so that's not necessarily true, but I don't want to risk re injuring the sad, lost teenage boy from Texas (me) who was so scared, lonely, hungry and ashamed of what I was doing. I'm in a protective stage right now--protecting myself and so your suggestion of a symbolic act is really good for me.

I am happy to know that there are people like you in positions of leadership in religion who are willing to confront and accept the fact of male sexual abuse.

My spiritual life is and always has been very important to me---that's why the man who abused me chose that route to get to me. Part of my recovery leads me to reclaim my spiritual heritage from that bastard. I want to stop participating in the abuse by refusing to maintain my silence. I'm willing, so that's a big step. I feel now that I am getting the tools I need for the job so that I can be able. Then I can decide when I'm ready. Ready, willing and able. And I don't have to do it alone. That feels beautiful to me now.

With help, guidance and support (a maybe gentle boot in the rear now and then, Mike) I know I can do this. It helps me to relax now and be patient with myself that I have this outlet for my emotions. A safe place where I know I am understood.

Quote:
Danny, a step you might consider that could be therapeutic for you (with the guidance of a good therapist), is a "symbolic" (yet believe me very real & powerful) confrontation with your perp. My story of doing so last year is found here:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?
I'm new here (still getting the hang of the quotes) and have not been able to access your story. Any suggestions?

Thanks again, Victor and all.

Regards,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

Top
#85298 - 05/29/03 09:51 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
As I begin to gain the courage to try to unravel one end, it begins to hurt in another place.
We know the feeling Danny.

Quote:
Instead of trying to undo all that tangled web all right now, I try to focus more on being kind and loving to myself.
Danny for me that is the key to untangling the barbed wire web of SA. If we can love ourselves & be good to ourselves, we can untangle a lot of wire & ease the pain of a lot of barbs.

Quote:
I have absented myself from my faith community for a year now--the people there miss me and ask about me---I honestly don't know what to tell them. So for now, I say nothing.
Be careful Danny. I know how people in faith communities sometimes say they miss you but just miss what you give them or are just saying it to be or look nice. After all, you said in your earlier post that "the other members chose to turn a blind eye." So it may be wise for you to be guarded and say nothing, certainly until you're
good & ready to say something on your terms.

Just a thot, maybe not worth two cents: if & when
you're ready, you could ask them: "If you missed me, why did you turn your backs on me when I needed you?"

Quote:
I get really pissed off though when I do around because it seems that a lot of the
"pretending everything is Ok mentality" is a standard fixture when people gather together for moral education.
Danny this is one of the things about faith communities I find most exasperating. Of all the places where we should be able to be real, to let it out when everything is not ok, that's where it should be. If everythings ok what do we need moral education for anyway? No wonder so many people decide they don't...

Quote:
I am happy to know that there are people like you in positions of leadership in religion who are willing to confront and accept the fact of male sexual abuse.
Danny it took me 35 years from the last time I was SA 45 from the first time (I'm 46) before I finally really did so, but I had to.

This makes SA by spiritual leaders all the more infuriating to me!

Quote:
My spiritual life is and always has been very important to me---that's why the man who abused me chose that route to get to me. Part of my recovery leads me to reclaim my spiritual heritage from that bastard. I want to stop participating in the abuse by refusing to maintain my silence. I'm willing, so that's a big step. I feel now that I am getting the tools I need for the job so that I can be able. Then I can decide when I'm ready. Ready, willing and able. And I don't have to do it alone. That feels beautiful to me now.
Danny what a powerful paragraph; it says so much about you, and says so much for so many of us here! Why let that bastard take your spiritual heritage from you? He probably doesn't know it from a hole in the ground & sure doesn't know what to do with it! Whatever you do, whenever, and
however, is your call. But you're not alone in it!


Quote:
I'm new here (still getting the hang of the quotes) and have not been able to access your story. Any suggestions?
My apologies Danny, the link I gave you for that story didn't come up right. Now I can't get a link
to it or even find it. Fortunately I saved it in my files. So here it is, slightly edited. Hope it helps:

My Male Survivor Friends:

I've had two 2-chair therapy sessions in which I meet with my mother & my T in the safety of his office. Tho not physically present, she has been there & we have communicated in a very real way.

Between each session I had taken a week or 2 to process what happened & talk with my T about it. We've worked together, usually weekly, for well over a year now.

Well, this past Monday, a couple weeks after my last 2-chair time, I had a major breakthrough.

I told my T I had been thinking about whether or not we needed to meet with my mother again, and that I just wasn't sure; what did he think?

Basically, he said he thinks I've probably dug up the past & the worst of the stuff there all I need to, at least until something else different comes up, some really bad memory that's a new event not just another detail or more of the same garbage--which he thinks is unlikely.

He doesn't want me to forget or deny the past, or even stop dealing with it. He just thinks I'm at the point where I can really live in the present, using what I know out of the past, but not dwelling on it anymore. He thinks that's the best way to deal with the past now--just live.

Yeah I know; it sounds so simple, so obvious. It's certainly nothing I haven't heard of or thot about plenty of times before. But it was the first time he ever said it to me in that way, in the present-now-you can do it tense.

It's also the first time I really believe it! (And I know how vital that is). I don't need to meet with my mother or have any contact or connection with her anymore.

I'd already broken contact with and put aside my mother of the present, who would not be much of a threat even if she were closer by than she is. The mother I've been needing to put away much more is the one who abused me so much all those years ago--a woman I doubt my present mother even remembers & certainly doesn't want to remember.

Now, I've done that. Not that I haven't wanted to; I have. But to release the hurts & hatred was hard. What was probably once necessary for survival had become like a security blanket for me, sometimes even an excuse, a very unnecessary hindrance that kept tripping me up.

Now I've released it. Oh there still are & will be hurt feelings to heal, bad habits to break, etc. But there also are & will be new good feelings, new habits & hobbies to get into, new & renewed relationships, new & wonderful experiences.

The key is that I believe now the new, the positive, the present, is where I can truly focus & live, even when bad feelings or new problems come, as they will.

In short, I think I'm finally beginning the move away from just surviving to thriving.

And I emphasize "beginning." I don't think I'd really even started or felt capable of doing that until now. I didn't become a victim, or a survivor, overnite; I won't become a "thriver" that way either.

What I now can & will do is begin to be a thriver moment by moment, day by day. Not without setbacks or obstacles, from the past or the present.

I can start really practicing & living life w/o always automatically going into victim mode when someone is abusive or disruptive. I believe the time will come when that will rarely to never be my 1st inclination anymore. Which means my 1st reaction won't always be acting out in some hurtful, harmful way.

Oh man I know its not over! Damn, those nasty old habits do die hard don't they? Even now I'm dealing with temptations to act out sexually. I'm still hurting physically & wanting to medicate somehow. But its not dominant in my heart & mind. Not now. Hopefully never again. But if so, I still have taken a big step, made a major breakthru, that will help me thru.

No, its not over. Its a beginning. Another big step taken on the road to health & wholeness, with many more little & some big steps yet to come. But I look forward to them now more than I ever thot possible.

Yeah its still scary. Getting abused & shot down so many times when I thot I was going to be happy or get ahead or be able to trust does that to you. I know it won't just magically disappear. No magic here.

But I'm finally at the point where I'm starting to really believe that trying to live life to the fullest & enjoy it the most I can, even when I have problems even traumas, is going to be less painful than just settling for misery so I don't get disappointed, becuz then I was just disappointed all the time anyway.

Wow am I rambling this is hard to put into words! So simple, so basic, yet so exciting & powerful!

I guess I'm learning not to underestimate every little step I take no matter how much it hurts or how many hazards I face, becuz the little steps lead to big steps, and all steps lead home as long as I keep stepping.

And I've got to add that this is happening as it is in great part becuz of you men, my fellow survivors. It was just a couple of months ago I started on this forum & now here I am. You've helped me take a big step, fellas, know it or not; and that means you've taken a great step yourselves, at least in my eyes. THANK YOU!

I had to take the step. I did take the step largely becuz you, fellow survivors, gave me a lot of the hope, courage & inspiration to do so.

Fellow survivors, this is why its so great when we help each other walk the path together as we do. And I'm glad we do becuz I know I'm still gonna stumble & need plenty of support. And as with the downs, its nice to have people who understand to share the "ups" with too.

Take care & thank you men!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

Top
#85299 - 05/29/03 11:54 AM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Wow, Victor! Way to go! Thanks for letting me be a part of the story of the recovery of your life. Powerful, very moving experience for me and an inspiration.

And congratulations to ME--I just joined MS and that feels like a big, healthy step in the right direction.

I'm glad to belong. Thank you Victor and the rest of you guys for the honest, sincere welcome.

It means a lot more than I can say.

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#85300 - 05/29/03 06:36 PM Re: Sometimes I Hate Posting
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Danny:

Thank you. Your story is really resonating with me and sharing with you is affirming & helpful.

Congrats on joining MS!

Quote:
"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
F. Nietzsche
I remember reading that in Philosophy class I think, a looonngg time ago.

A good message for male survivors and their friends & advocates as we fight the war against SA

Thanks,

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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