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#84436 - 10/04/06 02:11 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
One thought I've had here is that things seem to have changed for the better in the last 20 years.

Back about then one of our national lawmakers (his name escapes me at the moment) wasn't even removed from congress for HAVING SEX with an underage page, let alone having criminal charges filed. The bastard was even re-elected to his seat the next term!

It is getting better guys.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#84437 - 10/04/06 03:45 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

It is indeed better - you are right to point that out. Back in the 60s, when I was abused, the "proper" way to deal with things was to hush them up as fast as possible. This case would never have seen the light back then.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84438 - 10/04/06 05:25 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
At Last! Some emphasis on the kids at the center of this issue. It's about time.

_________________________________________________________

Congressional pages can be vulnerable


Before the Internet came along, vodka with cranberry juice and a bet over a six-pack of beer were tools of seduction in the hands of House members with designs on congressional pages.

The bright high school juniors who come to Washington to be pages are wards of Congress, much like orphans were when the House first hired them to run errands in centuries past.

In their gray and navy uniforms, they get a taste of power while doing humdrum jobs, serving at the whim of an institution that shelters, educates and pays them while they are far from home.

The potential for abuse is apparent, as it always is when power and powerlessness are in the same room.

In 1983, an investigation into dozens of reports of sexual misconduct between House members and pages noted the more permissive nature of society at the time, with the age of consent dropping, sexual mores relaxing and people appreciating "an increasing recognition of the frailty of human nature."

Even so, the inquiry stated in so many words: Hands off.

That bottom line is being echoed today after the exposure of Rep. Mark Foley (news, bio, voting record)'s flirtatious e-mails and reports he sent raunchy instant messages to page boys prompted him to quit and check into a center for alcoholism and what he said were behavior problems.

Members of Congress are expected to take special responsibility for the welfare of pages and act in place of their parents. Protections introduced since the early 1980s include an increase in the starting age of pages to 16 from 14, dorms for them to live in, heightened supervision and a board to protect their well-being.

But "the pages are not on a leash 24 hours a day" and the risk always exists of someone in a position of authority preying on them, Joseph A. Califano Jr., who led the 1983 investigation as special counsel to the House Ethics Committee, said Monday.

"There's plenty of opportunity," he said in an interview. "Parties every night ... enough free booze to sink the Capitol.

"Whether it's the House of Representatives, professional sports or the Catholic Church, you're going to have people who are sick."

The 1983 inquiry uncovered repeated trysts with pages on the part of Reps. Daniel B. Crane and Gerry Studds, as well as one senior House employee.

These liaisons were consensual in ways that Foley's come-ons apparently were not — one page described Foley repeatedly as "sick, sick, sick."

The consensual nature of Crane's encounters with a page girl and Studds' encounters with a page boy were considered no defense at the time. Not when powerful men in their 30s and 40s and teenagers of 17 or younger were involved.

The page girl told investigators that in the winter of 1980, when she was 17, she made a friendly bet over a basketball game with the 44-year-old congressman for a six pack and, when she lost, took the Heineken to his office.

They ended up in his apartment for the first of at least several sexual episodes over the course of a succession of Thursdays. "It was my decision just as much as it was his," she stated.

The Republican congressman from Illinois was censured by the House and lost his seat in the 1984 election.

The page boy seduced by Studds, D-Mass., said the congressman invited him to his Georgetown home for dinner, and they talked until 4 a.m., drinking vodka and cranberry juice. "I was told by the congressman that he was too drunk to give me a ride home and so he said, 'Why don't you sleep here?' and I did."

Thus began a sexual relationship that continued over more dinners and a trip together to Europe.

"I was flattered and excited," the page testified. "If I could have had my druthers, I would have had the friendship that I had with the man without the sex."

He said "I was somewhat uncomfortable" with the sex but "I did not think it was that big a deal."

Studds was 36; the page was either 16 or 17 when they first had sex. Studds also was censured but his political career survived until his retirement in the mid-1990s.

Califano, now chairman of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University, credited Congress with adopting the full menu of protections he recommended. Five years later, his daughter became a page.

The investigation looked into rumors that sexual misbehavior and drug use were rampant on Capitol Hill and found most of the reports were "the product of teenage exaggeration, gossip or even out-and-out fabrication." But not all.

At the time, the age of consent for sexual acts had been lowered in most jurisdictions to 16, where it largely remains. But protected ages are higher depending on circumstances, such as when someone of influence entices or coerces the younger person to have sex.

_________________________________________________________

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84439 - 10/04/06 06:47 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Larry,

this stuff starts at the top in Government circles, that is why they look for power, to use it anyway they feel.

It turns out to be yet another coverup.
Funny how these things come up on the eve of elections, but thats as shady as it gets.

Never believe in authority, they cover their own asses like Hell.
Worldwide that is!

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#84440 - 10/05/06 02:55 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Yet another chapter in the saga. It looks like there might be an investigation of Foley, and there's a lot of consternation at the way the House leadership seems to have put politics ahead of the safety of the kids they bring to Washington for what should be a great experience of a lifetime.

____________________________________________________________

Ethics committee ready to probe Foley case



Speaker Dennis Hastert's job is on the line as members of the House ethics committee decide how to launch a credible investigation of former Rep. Mark Foley (news, bio, voting record)'s salacious computer messages to teenage pages.

An extraordinary political spectacle surrounded the committee's first scheduled meeting Thursday. Republicans publicly blamed Hastert for failing to take action after he was warned about the messages, and a former Foley aide said he told Republican leaders about the Florida congressman's conduct years earlier than they have acknowledged.

With Republicans concerned about maintaining their congressional majority in the Nov. 7 elections, political support for Hastert was ebbing. Republican officials said at least a few disgruntled members of the GOP rank and file had discussed whether to call on the speaker to step aside. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the issue.

Hastert told the Chicago Tribune on Wednesday night that he has no thoughts of resigning. He blamed ABC News, which broke the Foley e-mail story, and Democratic operatives for the mushrooming scandal.

The Justice Department, meanwhile, ordered House officials to preserve all records related to Foley's electronic correspondence with teenagers. The request for record preservation is often followed by search warrants and subpoenas, and signal that investigators are moving closer to a criminal investigation.

Kirk Fordham, the former Foley aide, said in an interview with The Associated Press that more than three years ago he had "more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest level of the House of Representatives asking them to intervene." He declined to identify them, but officials said Scott Palmer, Hastert's chief of staff, was one of them. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.

Palmer said through a spokesman, "What Kirk Fordham said did not happen."

Fordham resigned Wednesday as chief of staff to Rep. Thomas Reynolds (news, bio, voting record), R-N.Y., the House GOP campaign chief who says he alerted Hastert to concerns about Foley last spring.

Fordham disputed allegations that he covered up any misdeeds by Foley. "At no point ever did I ask anyone to block any inquiries," said Fordham, who was Foley's longtime chief of staff until leaving in January 2004.

Rep. Roy Blunt (news, bio, voting record) of Missouri, third-ranking GOP leader, pointedly told reporters he would have handled the Foley matter differently than Hastert, had he known of it.

"I think I could have given some good advice here, which is, you have to be curious, you have to ask all the questions you can think of," Blunt said. "You absolutely can't decide not to look into activities because one individual's parents don't want you to."

House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, said in a radio interview Tuesday: "I believe I talked to the speaker and he told me it had been taken care of. My position is it's in his corner, it's his responsibility."

Ron Bonjean, Hastert's spokesman, said the issue now rests with the ethics committee.

"We fully expect that the bipartisan panel will do what it needs to do to investigate this matter and protect the integrity of the House," Bonjean said.

House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California said the committee needs to question Hastert and the rest of the Republican leadership under oath.

"The children, their parents, the public, and our colleagues deserve answers and those who covered up Mark Foley's behavior must be held accountable," Pelosi said.

Foley, 52, resigned last Friday after he was confronted with sexually explicit electronic messages he had sent teenage male pages. He has since entered an alcohol rehabilitation facility at an undisclosed location. Through his lawyer, he has said he is gay but denied any sexual contact with minors.

His abrupt departure and the ensuing sex scandal has shaken Republican confidence — and poll numbers — and plunged Hastert and others into an intensive effort to grapple with conflicting claims about what senior lawmakers knew, when they learned it and what they did about it.

The ethics committee had endured a partisan stalemate for 16 months that prevented its members from launching any new investigations. The committee broke the deadlock in May by announcing four separate investigations, including the first congressional probe of a lawmaker linked to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

Now, the committee, which is equally divided between Republicans and Democrats, has the sensitive job of investigating the House speaker, the top official in the chamber. When the committee investigated Democratic Speaker Jim Wright and Republican Speaker Newt Gingrich, it hired outside counsels.

The ethics panel also hired an outside lawyer to conduct a broad sex-and-drugs investigation in the early 1980s that ended with the censure of two House members for consensual relationships with House pages, who are high school students who work on Capitol Hill delivering messages and running other errands.

The outside counsel in the Wright investigation said the committee must hire an independent investigator to convince the public it can conduct a nonpartisan investigation of congressional leaders.

Richard Phelan, hired to investigate Wright, said an outside counsel was key to a credible investigation.

"The perception outside (Washington) is that Congress and the speaker and those running Congress have screwed this thing up," Phelan said. "I think you probably have to start with Hastert."

___________________________________________________________

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84441 - 10/05/06 07:18 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
The latest from the Chicago Tribune. Approaches to pages seem to come after they leave the program. There are calls to eliminate the program entirely now, as if the answer lies in punishing the kids who might benefit from this opportunity, rather than making sure that predators can't abuse the system. Typical.

____________________________________________________________

Ex-pages say they're vulnerable when program ends


WASHINGTON -- Revelations in the past week of sexually explicit e-mails and instant messages from then-Rep. Mark Foley to teenage House pages have sparked calls for reform and even abolition of the page program.

Security at the program already is tight, several ex-pages say. The vulnerable period, they add, follows their semester-long stint in Washington, when lawmakers can still contact the students, who are not afforded the protections they receive while on Capitol Hill.

The electronic messages from Foley that are at the center of the scandal appear to have been sent after the pages completed their time in Washington. Interviews with numerous former pages displayed a consistent pattern in de>
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84442 - 10/05/06 10:43 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
ForeverFighting Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: New Mexico, USA
This whole thing is so wrong. I shouldn't have, but I read the tran>
_________________________
ForeverFighting

"This search for the truth--it's not for the faint of heart."--Goren on 'Law & Order: CI'
"The former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart."--Isaiah 65:17

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#84443 - 10/05/06 11:01 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
FF,

And the kicker is that it's so plainly obvious that at least some of these kids WERE abused. I just can't imagine that any teenager would give up detailed information about his private parts and sexual life to his congressman boss on the Internet unless his boundaries had already been broken down in some devastating way.

Let's hope that the orange suit in Foley's size is all cleaned, pressed and ready for a new occupant.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84444 - 10/06/06 12:59 PM Re: "You in your boxers?"
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Here's another one from today, possums. It turns out that Foley has been up to these tricks for a decade, so from the early years of his service as a Congressman. Surprise, surprise! But the good news is that the dam is cracking and former pages are beginning to speak out.

______________________________________________________________

Ex-page says he got messages from Foley


A former congressional page said Thursday he received sexually suggestive messages from then-Rep. Mark Foley (news, bio, voting record) in 1997.

Tyson Vivyan's account appears to show the earliest exchange of suggestive messages reported so far between Foley and teens who had served in the Capitol page program. Previous accounts placed the earliest contacts in 2003.

Vivyan, 26, told The Associated Press that Foley began sending him instant messages about a month or two after his nine-month stint as a page ended in June 1997.

Vivyan, who gave interviews this week to other media, said he never met Foley personally during his stint as a page, other than brief greetings while working in the cloakroom beside the House chamber where members take breaks.

A few months later, he said, he started getting instant messages via computer from a person with the screen name MAF54, which has been linked in news reports to Foley. He said he wasn't sure who it was, but the person knew his name and physical de>
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#84445 - 10/07/06 12:27 AM Re: "You in your boxers?"
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Larry,

Quote:
And the kicker is that it's so plainly obvious that at least some of these kids WERE abused. I just can't imagine that any teenager would give up detailed information about his private parts and sexual life to his congressman boss on the Internet unless his boundaries had already been broken down in some devastating way.
I agree totally with that assessment, but would like to add another log to the fire here if I may.

In my opinion, and in the opinion of most mental health professionals who deal with sexual abuse issues, the sexually explicit content of these emails and IM's constitutes sexual abuse in and of itself, and is a gross violation of sexual boundaries that can come back to trouble the victim at some point in the future.

It's just plain sick and abusive, and I hope these young men have help available if and when they need it.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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