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#83567 - 02/14/06 09:18 PM Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Sorry, couldn't help but note parallels between Vice President Cheney's bad handling of his shotgun, the aftermath in the media, and the tendency to blame victims when 'important' people are involved in behavior for which anyone else would be held liable:
Quote:
Whittington "came up from behind the vice president and the other hunter and didn't signal them or indicate to them or announce himself," Armstrong said, according to the Associated Press.
full text available at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/12/AR2006021200524.html

So you see, it was the victim's fault for not speaking up. He could have prevented what happened to him. The fact that he did not indicates that he was to blame, indeed he probably enjoyed it. Certainly, the Vice President bears no shame for failing to handle his big ol' shotgun in a safe and sane manner.

\:\)

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

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#83568 - 02/14/06 09:49 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
I could get political here but I will restrain myself.

Kirk
"Lets grab this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#83569 - 02/15/06 01:31 AM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
But for the fact some guy got shot, that's a showpiece of political spin.

If that was two rednecks out hunting then the guy with the gun would be at fault.

Who goes hunting and walks around shouting "COOOEEE, I'm over here, dont shoot me"

File it under "You couldn't make it up"

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#83570 - 02/15/06 04:36 AM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
TJ jeff Offline
Moderator
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 3389
Loc: Northern Wisconsin
Hi John,

I've been a hunter since I was in my early teens - I've been on a lot of bird hunts and have seen some mighty wreckless people handling a gun (needless to say - I did'nt hunt with them twice) - I was always taught that it is 100% the responsibility of the person pulling the trigger to make sure that it is a clean shot... - I've let a lot of birds go over the years cause I was unsure of where a hunting partner was in relation to the bird - there will always be another bird - but if you shoot your hunting partner - it is mighty rare that they will hunt with you twice...

just my 2 cents...

TJ jeff

_________________________
Who will cry for the little boy? - I will... - Antwone Fisher

Abuse happens in silence/isolation - Recovery happens only when that silence/isolation is broken...

TJ's History

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#83571 - 02/15/06 05:06 AM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Jeff,

The only time I ever handled a rifle was at Boy Scout camp when I was 13 or 14. I managed, with six shots, to actually make a small hole in one corner of the target, well outside the black circles. \:\) Even so, with my rather limited firearms experience, I've always intuitively understood the rule you've just expressed so well. Thanks for confirming it for me.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

Top
#83572 - 02/15/06 03:45 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
Curtis St. John Offline
Past President
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 1796
Loc: Westchester, N.Y.
You can read the accident report here if you like.

report


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#83573 - 02/15/06 05:29 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
The whole thing fails to surprise me, and like Kirk I am soooo tempted to get political.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#83574 - 02/15/06 07:52 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
TX_Space Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Texas
Know what? Not worth it.


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#83575 - 02/15/06 08:05 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
Sorry you don't see the relevance. What were the triggers you warned about? I think I missed them.

My original post is not anti-Bush, nor anti-Cheney. It's not a right-ist or left-ist post. It's about abuse of power, pure and simple, and if you can't see the relevance to CSA, well then you just can't. You're absolutely right that if it had been two rednecks, it wouldn't merit the attention of the press. The vice-president and Mr. Whittington, however, are not two rednecks. Neither is Ms. Armstrong a redneck. If it had been two rednecks, the local sheriff and game people would have heard about it from the hunters themselves, not the landowner.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

Top
#83576 - 02/16/06 07:27 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
In the interests of fairness and accuracy, this from today's Washington Post, under the headline "Cheney Says Shooting Was His Fault":

Quote:
Breaking his silence four days after the shooting, a subdued Cheney recounted the incident in sometimes stark and personal terms, saying he was haunted by the memory of his friend, Harry Whittington, falling to the ground. While Cheney allies have faulted Whittington for not signaling fellow hunters that he was nearby, the vice president took the blame.

"Ultimately, I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and fired the round that hit Harry," Cheney said in a hastily arranged White House interview with Fox News Channel anchor Brit Hume. "And you can talk about all of the other conditions that existed at the time, but that's the bottom line. And there's no -- it was not Harry's fault. You can't blame anybody else. I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend. And I say that is something I'll never forget."
Good for you, Mr. Vice President.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

Top
#83577 - 02/16/06 07:38 PM Re: Vice-President Shoots Man: Victim Gets Blamed
johnsurvived Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 332
Loc: Arlington, Virginia
TX_Space,

Sorry you felt the need to pull your original post and change it to a little one-line squib. If it was worth it to post originally, I'm not sure I understand why it's not worth it now. If you care to explain what's going on with you, I'd love to hear it.

John

_________________________
Take for us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vineyards; for our vines have tender grapes. Song of Solomon 2:15

But let justice roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream. Amos 5:24

Top
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