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#83513 - 02/01/06 08:26 PM Re: This is British Justice
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Kirk,

Quote:
Something is seriously wrong somewhere.
Especially, assuming I am reading you and Ste correctly, if the "system" is only interested in convictions of criminals and not the rights and welfare of their victims.

If more charges in a case are refused because "that won't add to the punishment" when the guy is convicted, then doesn't that mean that the victims who had come forward are being abandoned to fend for themselves?

In the midst of all the reviews for the Perp of Pop, where are the reviews of what his victims need?

Oops, I guess that would be too expensive.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#83514 - 02/01/06 09:17 PM Re: This is British Justice
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Larry,

victims tend to not have the energy to think their rights have been violated.
Lawyers do!

In a country were our basic rights are being eroded by Government law which can violate rights, then we can be in serious trouble.

We are on the cutting edge of technology which can increasingly encroach our rights as citizens, then the human rights laws are necessary.

You may not know it, but agencies collate information from a vast number of sources and cross match databases, so you may apply for a mortgage and be refused.

An insurance company may refuse cover because they demand you send a sample of DNA so they can evaluate the risk.

Think of the increasing encroachment of basic liberties. It stops authority stomping over us for little reason, and it gives us rights to information held on us.

We cannot refuse to embrace human rights, when ours may be encroached in the future.
Every court in the land has to be clued up on human rights legislation.

I am not defending perps, but they do have human rights, the abused dont seem to, I know that from when I was a kid, whats new,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#83515 - 02/01/06 09:52 PM Re: This is British Justice
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
The authorities have plenty on me I have a criminal record that goes back to 1976 and my medical records are as thick as War and Peace, they can erode my civil liberties as much as they like, they have done that already. The CPS are not interested in Justice for the victim they are instructed by government to convict with the least amount of money spent, thats why my stomach turns whenever I hear these words "It will not be in the public interest" that means they do not want to spend the money, believe me I know that for a fact its happened to me twice.

I dont beliveve that CPS barristers are crap David Jeremy QC who was prosecution counsel in the King trial was up against one if not the most verbally aggressive/destructive/upsetting (when cross examining) barrister in the buisness. Ronald Thwaites QC. As the police said after his conviction "King could afford the best legal defence in the country and he got it".

And as for perps human rights they will not be having any from me if they ever touched any of my grandchildren.....period.

Kirk
"Lets take this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit" - Kirk


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#83516 - 02/02/06 10:40 AM Re: This is British Justice
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kirk,

I echo your sentiment, and yes we are never seen as victims by anybody in society.
We are victimised subtly or directly by everyone we meet whether at work or by authorities.

The difference between having a good barrister is this.

You too could find a good barrister who is better than the cps barrister, but he will not tell lies for you, but you are not there to tell lies.

If you have money, you can employ a barrister who can twist evidence and lie for you.
They can even blindside judges too.

The law is there to serve the interest of the people, when the law is twisted around to suit the interest of time and money, then it is an ass.

It will hurt me loads if he gets away with this, it will hurt every kid who lives in silence, it will hit you most, let us just hope others come forward and seal the lid.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#83517 - 02/02/06 10:41 AM Re: This is British Justice
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Kirk,

Quote:
And as for perps human rights they will not be having any from me if they ever touched any of my grandchildren.....period.
Your comment reminds me of one of the first things my Dad said when I disclosed to him in November. He asked if the perp is still alive, and when I said no his comment was: "Good thing for him."

Ste I agree that human rights have to be defended as a matter of principle. I just have difficulty applying that to someone who has never shown any respect for the human rights of children - and sometimes lots of children.

I really don't know how to sort this one out. I feel I see both sides clearly but can't work through the impasse.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#83518 - 02/02/06 11:09 AM Re: This is British Justice
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Ste

"The law is there to serve the interest of the people, when the law is twisted around to suit the interest of time and money, then it is an ass".

I am afraid you are wrong the law is there to serve the interest of the state that is why you see on legal document Regina V "Whoever" and not McIntyre V King. A crime is not committed against an individual it is committed against the state.

Until that changes we are collectively up sh*t creek without a paddle. And I cant see that changing, not in my lifetime anyway.

Kirk
"Lets take this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit" - Kirk


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#83519 - 02/02/06 02:55 PM Re: This is British Justice
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Kirk,

Quote:
A crime is not committed against an individual it is committed against the state.
Isn't this the case with criminal law in general? The State prosecutes because an offense has been committed against its criminal law code. The victim may testify in some cases, but in legal terms the injured party is the State.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#83520 - 02/02/06 04:55 PM Re: This is British Justice
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Yes exactly laws serve the state.
They can use laws to tell people what to do, and how to live.

Governments talk of 'choice', and 'freedom', then erode it with bad laws.
These two words dont mean anything at all to me, but they do to the sheep.

A guy hailed a black cab in London, he asked the driver, can I see the bail of hay?
The guy says, I demand to see the bale of hay!

He then summoned a constable who duly locked the cab driver up, and he had to appear before magistrates.

The magistrates decided that a full tank of diesel constituted the same as a bale of hay.

The guy had proven that this law existed today, it was eventually out of statute.

Yes we do need human rights laws, they protect all of us, even the inhuman beasts.

If this perp has a retrial and goes down again for a longer sentence, then he will probably say his human rights were breached because of the more lenient sentence he got in the first place.

Getting back to King, I hope it smashes in his face as other guys come forward, as he is a serial pedo, I have no doubt he still is, but the police will be giving him loads of attention.

His arrogance will want the police off his case, to let him keep doing it.

On the case of denning, Kirk, you mention all of those boys being hurt, but how many came forward to nail him!
You can use that as a yardstick to the scale of keeping silent.

The present law gives a maximum of life in prison for the rape of a child, give denning life, nah, he will get 5/7 years max.

There is a new initiative called the judges toolbox which is designed to give judges greater thought on what the victims have been through.

It guides judges to what the sentence should be, why cant it guide politicians???
A politicians toolbox would be great, but it would be full of rusty tools,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#83521 - 02/02/06 06:02 PM Re: This is British Justice
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
"On the case of denning, Kirk, you mention all of those boys being hurt, but how many came forward to nail him!"

I was exactly like them for thirty plus years so I cannot condem them for keeping quiet it is the stigma and the system that keeps you quiet, for me it was anothe breakdown and attempted suicide that caused me to disclose, if that had not have happened I doubt very much if I would have come forward. But even now that I know better with all the faults of the system I would still disclose. I just wish i could tell those guys that life is som much better when the secret is out, well it is in my case. You find out who your real friends are .... as for the others they can go fuck themselves.

We have no option but to go down the political road even if we are given rusty tools.

I would like to call myself an activist but that word can drum up all types of images, usually unlawful ones and we cant fight the law on this only thelaw makers.

Kirk
"Lest take this bull by the horns and swing it about a bit"


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#83522 - 02/02/06 06:17 PM Re: This is British Justice
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Kirk,

I think you're right. It's a waste of our energy to try to fight the law as such - the target has to be the people who make and implement law.

I like that image of rusty tools Ste. But if that's what we have then that's what we have to use.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
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