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#82811 - 12/05/04 09:32 PM Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Bill_1965 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive"

Sicko is right.


----------------------------------



Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive"

London Guardian/Matthew Taylor | December 2 2004

An academic awarded a doctorate by Glasgow University for his thesis which described sex between adults and children as sometimes positive was criticised last night by child abuse experts.

Richard Yuill said his research, based on interviews with paedophiles and their victims, "challenged the assumption" that sexual relations between adults and under-16s were inherently abusive.

"The conclusions are that in such relationships I think you've got the good, the bad and the ugly, and that's where I stand on that," he said in the Times Higher Education Supplement.

But child abuse experts said his thesis would play into the hands of paedophiles who justified their actions by claiming their victims were willing participants.

Chris Harrison, a senior lecturer in social work at Warwick University said: "Whatever his intention, one of the things we know about sexual offenders is that they seize on this kind of thing and use it to support their position."

Mr Yuill, who was awarded his doctorate this week, interviewed paedophiles by describing himself as a "boylover" and said his work could challenge the law which states that children under 16 are incapable of giving informed consent to sex with adults.

"The law may well take that view," he said. "The only thing I'm reporting is that the research findings do not concur with that overall picture. A number of respondents would concur with the law ... but others found positive experiences or at least what I'd call neutral."

Glasgow University said last night the thesis did not represent its views but defended the decision to award the doctorate.

"This student and his research was the subject of a full investigation by senior university staff. His research material was examined by Strathclyde police who were satisfied that nothing of an illegal nature had taken place," it said.

But other academics criticised Mr Yuill's research.

Andrew Durham, author of the book Young Men Surviving Child Sexual Abuse said victims of abuse sometimes reported positive experiences, but this was often a result of manipulation by the abuser, or simply a coping mechanism.

"When I work with people who have been abused it often feels like you're talking to the abuser in the child's head," he said.

Natalie Cronin, head of policy at the NSPCC, said the suggestion that the research could result in a change in the law was unacceptable.

"The age of consent sends a clear message to adults and young people that sexual intercourse and sexual activity under 16 is wrong in law. This is the age at which young people can give sufficiently mature and informed consent to sex. The NSPCC does not agree with the introduction of a lower age of consent," she said.

Mr Yuill said his research included "a lot of interviews with a lot of different groups" including victims of abuse who reported only extremely negative experiences.

Liz Kelly, professor of sexualised violence at London Metropolitan University, said: "Within its own terms the thesis may be fine but that is not the same question as whether its contents are strong enough to carry such big claims as that made with respect to the age of consent.

"A lot of young men and almost all young women in our study who had intercourse with an adult when they were a child regarded it negatively."

---------------------------

E mail your comment on this article to prisonplanetweb@hotmail.com and have it posted here.

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#82812 - 12/05/04 10:42 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Guys,
I think that we have to do something against such things.
Could we get this thesis from Glasgow University for the detailed analysis?

We have to react on this crap on systematical way.
Any suggestion?

Ivo


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#82813 - 12/06/04 06:22 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
After I had read article about this thesis I got allergy and anxiety attack.
It passed 48 hours without sleep and I still cannot close mine eyes.
I sent few mails, did some researches and that was only thing that I could do.

At the moment I am very sad, there are no words on this world that could cure me.

Ivo


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#82814 - 12/06/04 07:08 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Leosha Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill_1965:


"A lot of young men and almost all young women in our study who had intercourse with an adult when they were a child regarded it negatively."
I wonder if this is not 'almost all the young men' simply because those involved in the study are still feeling guilt, shame, or the need to maintain the society standard of 'it's ok' masculinity?

leosha

_________________________
Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

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#82815 - 12/08/04 11:07 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Bill, the Guardian is indeed a good informed newspaper for unbiased stories, a paper really worth reading.

Pedophilia wrecked all of my life and most of us in these forums, but is that another matter? Don't need a doctorate to see what it did to me, but then, maybe I should be the doctor and put this doctor to sleep humanely like they do to animals.

The predators I met even into my late teens shows that lowering the age of consent would surely give them the green light to pursue the innocence of even more kids, but then I am not a doctor.

Research on CSA is muted by the fact that so many kids do not report abuse and keep it quiet. I wonder if this doctor could give an answer to the question of why so many kids choose the exit after abuse, rather than carry on with a life not worth liveing?

Maybe his research is based purely on his own lust!

Thanks for the email, I will post something he may want to avoid in further research, but then again, with a mind set like his, I don't suppose I could ever change his views.

How could I?

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#82816 - 12/08/04 11:26 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
I contacted this doctor.

He wanted to open dialog with me but I am already too much triggered and not able to do it with such explosive issues.

By the way I had read dozens sexual reformatory articles and they made me feel real sick. His thesis is probably based on such views that are popular among some academics that lost connection with the humanity. They have some theoretical values but do not have anything common with reality.

This thesis is forbidden for public access for the next five years.
After things like this I think that it is good ting to avoid any participation in all researches.

Be careful with whom you are speaking,
Ivo


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#82817 - 12/09/04 01:23 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
blacken Offline
Chatroom Moderator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 1196
Loc: Northern Ohio
Lets just make a big pile of wood...& burn that Asshole (Richard Yuill) on the Stake.

_________________________
Everyone is a genius! If you were to judge a fish, by its ability to climb a tree,
it would think it was stupid all of it's life.
~Albert Einstein

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#82818 - 12/12/04 05:42 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
onlyakid Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1536
Loc: New Jersey
Now now, Blacken.. Everyone has a right to their own opinion no matter how WRONG SICK AND TWISTED it might be. Besides, hell will take care of the burning part LOL

_________________________
"Being with people that understand you...Priceless"

"and i don't want the world to see me, cause i don't think that they'd understand"

"You don't know what love is...you just do as your told"

"My life has changed. What you take as a simple thing, is not so simple for me anymore"


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#82819 - 12/13/04 11:53 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
reality2k4 Offline
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MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Don't know whether you read this thread, may just spell out his research,

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/29052.html

ste, just baulking

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#82820 - 12/14/04 09:58 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Please be aware that this could prove triggering
****************TRIGGER WARNING*************


I have had an email exchange with Richard Yuill, I asked for an abstract which he duly sent me much to my surprise, I like to think I'm reasonably intelligent but I could not figuire out what he was on about so I sent a copy to Ken Singer. Ken asked me if it was possible to get the complete thesis, I sent an email back to Yuill but have not recieved a reply as of today.

You maybe interested to know that this thesis entitled:
Title of Thesis:
Male Age-Discrepant Intergenerational Sexualities and Relationships.

And here is the abstract


Abstract
This thesis examines the construction of male age-discrepant intergenerational sexualities and relationships (MADIS) - primarily in the United Kingdom. It analyses the way in which such relationships have been constituted within hegemonic child sexual abuse (CSA) discourses, and how these in turn have been influenced by late modern material, social and cultural conditions. These include: the growing professionalisation of education and welfare institutions; the increasing problematisation of child and youth sexuality; and finally the popularisation of taboos on such relationships through a series of media and political campaigns.

The theoretical approach will apply Foucauldian, Bourdieusian and Queer insights on social theory, evaluating how far they can provide a critical framework for explaining how CSA has achieved dominant status in relation to MADIS. It will also examine key contested paradigms on social power and sexual subjectivity, and open up discussions as to whether late modern transformations in the intimate sphere can be incorporated within this area.

The historical and cross-cultural components will address: the social and discursive origins of the current injunctions on MADIS; the growth of 'expert' knowledges and proliferation of highly specialised and localised centres of power around young people's sexuality and MADIS; and how these have affected the>

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#82821 - 12/14/04 11:15 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
learning2remember Offline
Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 224
Loc: Europe
This vocabulary is over my head, but I think we need to address this.

I would appreciate it if professionals like Ken Singer and others could get access to the thesis and let us know what's up.

What's the deal with having access to the papter restricted? I've never heard of that?

It sounds like some academics are more interested in protecting a thesis than in protecting boys.

_________________________
"This is not my shame, this is their shame." Mona Eltahawy

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#82822 - 12/15/04 02:34 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Sounds like the Devil, doesn't it, making murder sound like a reasonable study in the care and consideration of those who murder?
WOW, or what's his name who did the research on why Northern Europeans are mentally superior to African Americans.

This kinda of crap has to be questioned no matter in what form it is presented.

Boylover...now, there's a term. Does that mean a man who has several sons for whom he has a great deal of love?
I don't think so!!!

It's more like a man who stalks boys under 18 for the purposes of sexual gratification. That's not boy loving or loving boys, that's pedophilia, pure and simple.

God, it's like all of that shit going on with people who think that it's ok for a woman to have sex with an 8 or 12 year old. Give me a break.
"Leave the kids alone, sexually, at least until they're all 18. And then you better ask them, politely, if they want to have sex with you or not. Then see how far you get."

Next, we'll have mail order Ph.d's for Pedophiles who are seeking recognition and credentials in order to appear legitimate. This almost sounds like the beginning of that, doesn't it?

Peace, brothers,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#82823 - 12/15/04 09:34 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
estuardo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 43
Loc: ohio
Hey all,

******Possible Triggers***********

Hadn't posted in a while, but this piqued my interest.

This, as you know, isn't new stuff, and many have tried to "prove" otherwise. Check out this site:
http://www.narth.com/docs/pedophNEW.html
http://www.narth.com/docs/debatecontinues.html

Reality2k4, the article you posted was interesting, especially the last paragraph:

"Mr Yuill was struck off as a teacher by the General Teaching Council five years ago after being found guilty of gross professional misconduct when he worked at Oban High School.
The university said it was unaware of the action."

Gee, I wonder what "gross professional misconduct" they are talking about? You know, it's been proven that Kinsley did some very disgusting things, in order to "prove" his theories.(like having prison inmates force sex on 'under-aged' children, to see what response he would get, and many other sick, demented, burn-in-hell-I-hope stuff.

BTW, the NARTH web site has excellent articles regarding pedophilia, and how the APA has been trying to secretly have this disorder removed from the DSM-IV books for years now!

http://www.narth.com

peace,
estuardo

_________________________
Quote for the Moment: "I'm entitled to my opinion...even if it's wrong."

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#82824 - 12/22/04 11:23 PM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Archnut Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 343
Loc: United Kingdom
Thought this maybe of interest especially afetr reading a "Stonewall" (A gay lobby group here in the UK) campaign banner reading "Sixteen its a start" when the age of consent for homosexual sex was lowered to sixteen a few years back, here the artice:

The report in several papers on Glasgow University post-graduate
student, Richard Yuill was symptomatic of the hysteria over pædophilia
that had crossed the academic boundary. Researching inter-generational
relationships between males, Yuill had been e-mailing former members of
the Pædophile Information Exchange (PIE). His e-mails were intercepted
by an academic on the continent and handed to the Scottish Mail on
Sunday for reporter Marcello Mega to add: "They reveal an organised
campaign to drive down the age of consent across Europe". Although the
department of sociology approved the subject of pædophilia as a
subject, Yuill's computer was seized and the secretary of the
University court, Mr Dugald Mackie launched an investigation while the
press went into overdrive.

I had a feeling this was going to happen whilst we are in the European Community they are going to try to equalize it throughout the community and I have a feeling it will go to the lowest, In spain the age of consent is thirteen.

This is almost pornographic

Best wishes for the season

Archnut


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#82825 - 12/23/04 11:18 AM Re: Sicko Academic Says Pedophilia "Sometimes Positive" (trigger)
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Archnut,
Mr. Yuill did have a lot of contacts with paedophiles, especially with well known paedophile Tom O'Carroll (he was the president of PIE).
University only suggested that Mr. Yuill should change methods of collecting of data when scandal was discovered (that's all info I got from newspapers).

I think that the investigation was questioning did Mr. Yuill have right to present himself falsely in relation to research (I think that he presented himself as a paedophile to other paedophiles) and police said that nothing was done illegal in that respect.

There are many unanswered questions regarding the thesis and its evaluation as well as of real intentions of Mr. Yuill; we would need to be patient to see what is all about.

Regarding EU I must say that actually EU is imposing very sharp laws against paedophiles and sexual exploitation of children. Many member countries have laws that are totally out of date with huge holes for paedophiles. In all that the age of consent is the key point.
At the moment Germany, Spain and some other countries are on the pressure to change their laws on way to push up the age of consent. There are many realistic reasons and needs for that.
In Belgium and The Netherlands they already did this (as well as I think in Nordic countries few years ago). In the Netherlands was just two years ago legal to have sex with 12 years old boys and girls, and adult would be prosecuted only in case of complains of minor side. New cases and studies as well as new EU law against paedophilia (in this law is especially added seduction as major mean of exploitation of children and abuse, in other words law is recognising danger of brainwashing of kids) forced change in the legal system of the Netherlands; now the age of consent is strictly 16, any sex of adults with minors under that age is illegal and is abuse.

It is tragic that in many countries law makers are waiting to discover disaster and only after that they are forced to adjust laws to modern times and needs.
In developed countries now one of the biggest problem is Canada and its very bad law which is leading to situation of cases of legal child abuse (many international predators are quite aware of these facts and already had happened some serious cases). Good news is that new, much improved law is in procedure with higher age of consent (from 14 to 16).
http://www.parl.gc.ca/38/1/parlbus/chambus/house/bills/private/C-267/C-267_1/C-267_cover-E.html

Developing countries are also starting to be aware of problems, for example Brazil is introducing new changes in law with bigger penalties against paedophiles.
But in general there are still many huge holes world wide. I think that explosion in child sex tourism and pornography would soon bring more and more sharp laws and higher age of consent in many countries.

Regardless of this, in Britain is one of the big problems huge rate of teen pregnancies, it is the one of the biggest rates in all Europe. Some of the law makers in the UK are trying to say that they need to "legalize" this phenomenon by lowering the age of consent. In fact, as I know, there were three attempts to lower the age of consent in recent times but neither was successful.
It is up to all elements of society in UK to do something about this, especially on field of sexual education of kids.

UK paedophiles are very "active" domestically and internationally, lawmakers should be extremely aware of this as well.

Best wishes for the season to all,
Ivo


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