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#81439 - 10/22/05 08:59 PM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Well, Ivan, Scot & John,
You said it much more eloquently than I would have, so I'll leave it at that.

Yves, For the record about your statement

"What offended me was the reference to any form of SA towards a holy deity."

It's called a "Metaphor".

I thank God that I have never had the desire to harm anyone, way I was harmed. This includes God.

Yves, I'm sorry you were offended, but it's not like you were not warned in the heading. If you are offended by poetic assaults on God, I would suggest not reading posts title "Rant on God", with offensive and vulgar warnings on them. Just an idea. You obviously have some strong feeling there, which I choose to respect. Therefore I willingly removed my post, even though I completely believe I have ever right to express my rage through poetry here, no matter how vulgar or offensive it is.

That is the whole point of writing a rant, to get it out of you.
Offensive poetry is a pretty good outlet for rage, I prefer it greatly to drugs and other self-destructive behavior. You might want to try it sometime. How about one on why you found it so offensive? I would appreciate that much more than being judged by you, to say the least.

I would ask you to remember that my feelings and expressions are just as valid as yours, John's, Scott's or anyone else. Even if these expressions are offensive rages against God.

To wrap this up, I offer you all peace. None of us are here to offend the others. Lord knows we get enough of that in the real world. This is not a good fight. I will not fight it. I save my energy to Fight the Good Fight.

Peace.

_________________________
Fight the Good Fight!

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#81440 - 10/23/05 02:10 AM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
Yves Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 93
Loc: Canada
I have been following the thread entitled ďViews on GodĒ. I think you might be surprised to find out that I agree with almost everything in it. I applaud you for being so in touch with your emotions. I donít invalidate your feelings or even ask you to change them Ė they are yours, they are real, and I have nothing against anything youíve said except part of the poem.

In a similar light, everything you said in the poem I also can sympathize with and relate to Ė itís only the last line that I believe is just plain wrong. You hate God for what He let happen to you, however, youíd be willing to do it to Him?

Jeff, if you think Iím so off the mark, why donít you re-post your poem? Maybe others would like to see what Iím on about.......... And while youíre at it, why donít you interchange the word ďGodĒ, with ďnewborn sonĒ? Because in my heart, thatís what it said to me.

While you want and need others to sympathize and understand your feelings and emotions, I want and need the same myself, and thatís the only reason Iím dragging this out by adding yet another post.

Iím not asking anyone to agree with me, Iím simply asking you to respect my request to have something which I find extremely offensive removed. Thatís all. Nothing more.

~Yves

_________________________
You know you love someone when you want them to be happy even though their happiness means you're not part of it. ~Author Unknown~

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#81441 - 10/23/05 02:49 AM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Yves,

There have been many things on this site, posted by men in pain, that I've disagreed with. Like you, I've let them know about it, even CHALLENGED them on it. However, I'm sorry to say, I disagree with you on ASKING for someone to remove their post, be it a poem or whatever.

I'd NEVER, EVER, ask anyone to remove something they felt important enough to post. It's sad that folks feel pressure that isn't there, or from their OWN feelings, to delete something themselves. I've done this, and I regret it every time. To ask someone to do it, well, I feel it's wrong.

If you feel something is offensive, bring it to the attention of the Mods and have THEM hash it out with the author, whoever it is. That's THEIR place, and if you feel something is that hostile, let THEM take the heat for it. Bad enough we feel the outside world is judging us for what we survived. We shouldn't feel judged here.

I know, I KNOW, judgment wasn't your intent. You felt something was out-of-line, and you called someone on it. But I hope that in the future, this can be done in private, with an explanation coming from the Mods if something needs to be deleted or edited.

It's only right. NO ONE should feel their views invalidated. Not you, ftgf, me, anyone.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#81442 - 10/23/05 03:02 AM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
Yves Offline
Member

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 93
Loc: Canada
Quote:
I know, I KNOW, judgment wasn't your intent. You felt something was out-of-line, and you called someone on it. But I hope that in the future, this can be done in private, with an explanation coming from the Mods if something needs to be deleted or edited.
Scot, maybe you should first practice before you preach?

_________________________
You know you love someone when you want them to be happy even though their happiness means you're not part of it. ~Author Unknown~

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#81443 - 10/23/05 03:55 AM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Yves, Everyone has already seen the poem, I sent it privately to anyone who asked.

I have to guess now that you are either trying to draw people in to an argument, or you just don't get it. What you mainly "don't get", is that none of this is about you, your feelings or your beliefs.

Either way, I'm not playing anymore.

I will post whatever I want, whenever I want, that is within the boundries of the guidelines for posting, poems about me, my feeling and my beliefs. You are free to do the same, and I encourage it for everyone.

If you have a problem with anything I post, please report it the appropriate authorities on this site and let them handle it. On second thought, might be best if you don't read my posts at all.

Finally, I refuse to enter into a philisophical debate with you about it, as I see trying to go any further with it is pointless.

Got a problem with my post, take it to a moderator.


I suspect you will have the need to reply to this post, and I am happy to give you the last word. Either way, I'm done talking with you about it.

Peace.

_________________________
Fight the Good Fight!

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#81444 - 10/23/05 05:51 PM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Brothers,

A lot of what I would have said has already been covered, so just a note:

Yves argues:

Quote:
There are certain, and sadly few, precious things in this life Ė the cry of a newborn baby, the laughter of children at play, the kiss of a grandmother, the embrace of someone you love. Add in for me, and millions of others, the love and grace and forgiveness of our Lord and God.
The difference, Yves, is that religious individuals (among which I include myself) do not claim that a baby or child or elderly relative has some spiritual and all-encompassing role in their protection and welfare. All montheistic religions and many others argue that the world is a just place and that God's role is to guarantee this. The fact that the world is nevertheless full of injustice and that God seems to just let it happen has troubled religious people for as long as there has been religion I think.

I read Jeff as a religious person who is asking why God did not protect him when he himself was an innocent child. He is in a dark place, and he needs to express his pain. This is his right, especially here. He has done it with anger, yes, but his post was clearly marked.

I am not criticizing you or denying your right to be offended, Yves. I can see your side as well as his. I would just suggest that the best way forward would be to report the post to the moderators. It's their job to look at cases like this and decide what to do. Had the poem stayed up, I think it would have been moved to Unmoderated.

For what it is worth, I thought the poem was an act of courage rather than blasphemy. The medieval Muslim theologian al-Ghazali wrote in his spiritual autobiography that faith is like a beautiful vase. When it is broken it is no good to paste the pieces back together again and say: "Here is my vase." It is no longer a vase, but rather just smashed bits stuck together. The glass has to be returned to the furnace and reblown into a new and different and hopefully stronger vase. Jeff is putting his glass back into the furnace, and yes, that can get rather hot.

Love to all,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#81445 - 10/23/05 05:55 PM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
A-bloody-men.

Ftgf, you're a man after my own heart.

Yves, believe about me what you want. My record here stands. I'll back it up anyday.

I don't judge, and I sure as Hell don't speak for God. If He's ticked about something, He has a way of letting His opinion be known. Your comment was both inappropriate and not backed up by my record here. Yes, I'm opinionated, same as you. I stand my ground, same as you. I'm ticked off that YOU think I'm "judging" anyone. And while this is MY last word on the subject, seems like YOU'RE the one doing the "judging" and speaking for God. Sacredness stands up for itself, and the attempts of Humanity to tear it down only look ridiculous. They don't diminish that which is TRULY of God.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#81446 - 10/23/05 10:49 PM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
I read the poem via PM, per my request. It was well-written and powerful. Vulgar too. Yet not quite as vulgar as the things that happened to us as boys. Just like ftgf, I was brutally, anally raped at the age of nine, my abuser then was a former Marine.

When I was young I was told that there was a god, that he loved and protected us all. As you can guess and I'm sure even Yves agrees, I have trouble with the concept of a god who protects us all, because he didn't and he doesn't. Still I tried to believe. I prayed and begged for Jesus to come into my heart. To relieve me of the pain I was feeling, even as I tried to jam a steak knife through my breast bone, standing in my mother's kitchen, again, at the tender age of nine. Guess what, god never did relieve me from that pain. Like everything else in life, I've had to do that myself.

Oh, I suppose those who believe in god, I don't anymore, by the way, would tell me that god has saved me from worse suffering. Thankfully he didn't give me leprosy, although I was born with two club feet, to a psycho mother and drunken father who put me in a psychiatric hospital at age ten and from there I went to a residential school where I was sexually abused by a teacher for two years, then on to the drinking, the drugs, the self-abuse, the whoring with older men, the inability to handle relationships, the confusion, the turmoil, the torment, the pain of it all. He didn't spare me one fucking iota of a painful life, not one. I could go on and on about how my life was a shambles because someone else's concept of god did not protect me or save me when I begged to be saved...and I begged for years!!

So what it comes down to is this was a poem, granted one that has provoked a great deal of passion and emotion but has done nothing to help anyone heal except for ftgf and some want to take that way from him. It was a poem that helped him get out some of the pain. Possibly the god he was addressing was allowing that pain to be bled through the vulgarity...? Maybe that god is finally seeing ftgf and his troubles and is now coming to his rescue.

But it is still only a poem, one that doesn't come close to the true vulgarity of my life and that of many others.

Peace - John


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#81447 - 10/23/05 11:00 PM Re: Rant on God. *Offensive, Vulgar, & Triggers*
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Amen, Jeff.

There are great obscenities out there, and God, the idea of God, as well as, for me, the reality of same, has survived them all.

As for a cry of pain sounded to God, well, there are numerous examples, for those of the Judeo-Christian bent, in the Bible (Lamentations, Job). God is familiar with pain, as with all things.

We've all survived horrors no one should, and we remain whole, and basically good.

We need to remember that.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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