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#78500 - 07/07/06 05:23 AM A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
My faith in God has been shaken to its very core. I have been angry with him, I have been in love with him and now my faith is weak if it is there at all. The things I once believed in have been proven not to be factual and I’m not sure just exactly where this leaves me.

My father used to call me names and would beat me and throw things at me. Then I was taught that God is a “father.” As a child, I knew that he couldn’t be like my dad. So I figured that he was everything my dad was not. God would love me; he would protect me. That is what my teacher at church taught me. All I had to do was pray and ask him to keep me safe. I prayed; God did not protect me. I was raped by a pathetic piece of humanity that out weighed me by about 100 pounds and then made me clean myself up with crusty old rags that had obviously been used for this purpose on previous occasions. And while I huddled there in the corner of that little shack trying to find the cleanest corners of those smelly old rags, and with tears streaming down my face I prayed to God to forgive me for being such a bad boy.

I have no idea how it happened, but I grew to love and worship that God. Now I no longer believe in that God, or if I do, I now see that what I saw of him was but a very small part of the picture and even that was blurry and out of focus. I have said to others on this discussion board that the God they learned about as a child was a lie and never existed but somehow never saw that as applying to me. Now I have come face to face with the reality that my God was also a lie.

So here I am, wondering what to do next. For me, atheism is not an option, neither is agnosticism. I believe there is a God. I also believe that he somehow cares about me. And I believe in Jesus and all the rest. But my picture of God, his character and what he is like, has been so messed up that there is absolutely no way to even tell who it is supposed to be a picture of in the first place. So here I am starting all over again. Not sure what parts of my picture of God are accurate and what parts are not. Yes, there are some things that are obvious such as God does not do physical and emotional abuse like my dad did or sexual abuse like taxi guy.

So the thing I find myself having to do is to throw out the canvas and start all over. I must not paint the picture myself; fact is, I must not paint it at all. Somehow, I must let him do the painting. I must learn to know him, who he is. I need to recognize him in the people around me and in the world in which I live. I must learn to know him in his word. I must look for him with all my heart because it is only then that I will find him.

Wanting to know God,

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78501 - 07/07/06 12:46 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Derdlecar:
So the thing I find myself having to do is to throw out the canvas and start all over. I must not paint the picture myself; fact is, I must not paint it at all. Somehow, I must let him do the painting. I must learn to know him, who he is. I need to recognize him in the people around me and in the world in which I live. I must learn to know him in his word. I must look for him with all my heart because it is only then that I will find him.
Derdle,

You have already taken the first step. The rest will come. I wish I could tell you how, but I think it is different for everyone. I always tell people to listen to the Beatles, because that is what worked for me.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#78502 - 07/07/06 03:15 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Darrel,

you have already found God.
He cannot protect us from Evil, but he can help you in different ways.

You have your own spirituality, and you make all the kids smile by acting young and stuff.
People often forget the good things that happen, to which we never thank our Creator for.

Dont forget, he was the one you cried out to when nobody could hear.
I cursed him a few times, but I know he has paid me back in many ways.

So just carry on being you,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78503 - 07/08/06 02:25 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Darrel,

Read your post this morning and didn't know how to respond Went to work. Came home and read it agian and I still don't know what to say. I hear what you are saying and I think I feel much the same. It gives me plenty to think about. Thanks.

Dale


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#78504 - 07/08/06 05:11 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Derdlecar,

To have faith shaken is a good thing for it can then show what is as opposed to what we think should be. This is a problem I've always had too. I get caught up in the methods and the systems of spiritual practice and I don't want to find out for myself. I read the sacred books including the Bible, the Gita, the philosophers, and all the rest of them and I find out that I'm playing the same game as before. Accepting authority is not the same as finding truth. Someone basically hands me a list of dos and don'ts and I feel by following them I will find truth.

Then I find only conflict and frustration because there is again the should be versus the what is. Whenever there is duality, there exists conflict for either the one will be superior to the other or else inferior to it. To compare myself to anything--whether its examples or spiritual laws invites judgement. When judgement enters the picture I start labeling myself a sinner or a spiritual, I feel my spiritual life is substandard or superior, or I become lukewarm, etc... These sorts of judgements only add more to the problem.

Then there is the idea of progress. Trying to see whether I'm making progress in spirituality is basically saying I'm better than these others or they are better than me. Again, more judgment and problems.

So you see when I'm off to search for something greater, something higher, it is because I feel my life is very painful at the moment and it's not worth living--I've already judged myself as bad. So what happens? I read or hear about something spiritual and I think I've found the answer but the truth is that I want to take another spiritual pill to forget about my problems. I want God, truth, or whatever, to take my problems from me. Not very different, though less damaging, than the alcoholic who drinks away his problems. I can meditate till I'm buzzed or numbed out by chanting, prayer, mantras, and so on, then I feel better but the problems remain after I "sober" up.

The problem really is that of seeing clearly--seeing the what is not the what I want. Belief or non-belief in God, heaven, and so on, is really irrelevant. Belief can't make something real no matter how real it seems. i.e. the world feels flat yet it is round. I can meditate, and I have done so, on a picture of Christ, Buddha, or Krishna until they become very real to me but that's just extreme conditioning. The mind will give you what you want if you tell it long enough.

What really happens when I take up a new spiritual practice is that I throw off one type of conditioning for another. As long as I keep asking "How to find truth? How to find God?" there will be hundreds of teachers, preachers, gurus, philosophers, books, etc... with the answers, methods, systems. The very idea of searching is wrong for it implies that I will recognize it when I find it. But if truth is indeed unknown to me, then I can't search for it--I can only let it come to me. But if my mind is playing with ideas and concepts of what truth is then I won't see it when it comes. This is because I've already determined what it is and I merely compare it to what I think it should be.

So ignorance is a good place to be at. Someone like me has to undo all the learning that I have accumulated over the years to get to ignorance again. A mind that is full of ideas sees reality filtered through those ideas. This is why the mind must be quiet and purged of all ideas, concepts, judgments, and beliefs, if it is to know truth. Don't take my word for it nor believe what I say--find out for yourself.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78505 - 07/08/06 11:54 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
True spirituality is not learned, you were born with it.
Often in life, we are taught bad things, by just living for today.

The media, and Government, tell us what they think we should know.
Terrorists, rapists, child molesters on every corner, no wonder our spirituality takes a nose dive.

Maybe its just because I am older and wiser now, but I dont watch TV, I only watch factual stuff, not the judgemental crap thrown down your throat till it chokes you.

Innocence in childhood is what we were born with, it may be corrupted but it is still there.
I wanted so much to change the world as a child, and I had my own vision.

Idiots who run our lives, tell us to expect this or that, and what they say is right.
Let your own mind discover the real meaning of life, and dont let them tell you how to live.

Your own judgement is often the best, without any help from anyone else, so step back, and see life the way it was meant to be.

Paint your own canvas on the true you, and those you meet in life will take a little bit, or give something back in return.

The canvas becomes a tapestry of true color, and will give you more strength as you see the painting emerge and discover who you really are,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78506 - 07/08/06 06:42 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Darrel,

I was sharing this with Nobby just yesterday. Quite a few months ago a friend of mine told me something. This man is a counselor at recovery weekend retreats (not MS). What he said was difficult for me to take in because it went against some inner core belief I held.

He said "As an adult recovering from childhood trauma you need to be prepared to bring into question every value you ever held, including your concept of God, your parents, every core belief."

He went on to say that the reason for that was not to get rid of it all, but to separate out the skewed thinking that resulted from the abuse. To go through it all piece by piece and abandoning the bad stuff, but keeping the good.

As abused boys, we got our concept of God from the authority figures that abused us whether it was sexual, emotional, or physical abuse. We learned that authority was not reliable to keep us safe and that we had to depend on ourselves because there was no one else on whom to depend.

Now as adults we have to go back and differentiate between those misconceptions of God and the ideas about him that are valid such as compassion and love. I think, too, that we need to come to understand that even now, our ability to keep ourselves safe is not always perfect, and that trusting in God's love and compassion is essential for true safety.

Following Nobby's example, I'll leave you with a quote.

"And God will keep the man in perfect peace whose mind rests in him"

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78507 - 07/09/06 03:27 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Thanks for the replies.

I thought I knew what God was like, now I feel like I don't know him at all. I am at peace with that however because I think I am on the verge of something big. Like maybe I will finely get to know who God is if that is possible. Or at least maybe what I learn will not be skewed.

Thanks again for your replies and your friendship.

Love ya all

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78508 - 07/09/06 03:31 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Darrel,

I am in the place you are spiritually, most of the time. However, I am becoming more accepting of Him and realizing that He gave us free will. Free will can be used to do good, to do absolutely nothing, or to do evil. If He didn't give us free will, we would be a bunch of little clones doing the same thing perfectly.

That being said, I still have wondered why the God I was taught who would protect me when I was good, and punish me when I was bad, thought that I was bad enough to be punished in such an evil way. How damn bad could I have been at 8 yrs old?

As confusing as God seems to me, I find that most of the confusion comes from what others have taught me about Him. Just because one set of beliefs works for them, does not mean that same set of beliefs will work for me. God made us as individuals. I think He deals with us as individuals.

I am finding that I have to rid myself of the old beliefs taught to me, and allow God to show Himself to me, personally. Yeah I get real mad at God, but He always seems to make more sense to me now than when I was an abused kid and teen.

As sad and pathetic as the facts are that human suffering goes on each day, I think that your brother John's signature quote is absolutely on target. It hit me like a ton of bricks a few minutes ago when I read it. Bad things happen to us, but perhaps we can help others going thru the same pain. We do it here at MS, and I'm sure we do it on a more personal level, too. What that quote tells me is that God is able to live in us, and through us, if we allow Him to. We ultimately get the blessing by being a blessing unto others.

Just my .02 worth.

And by the way, you may not know it, but you and you brother have been a blessing to me many times on this board. I rarely respond, but I must tell you, "Thank you, Darrel."


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#78509 - 07/10/06 07:32 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
I think many of us here have had these questions and feelings. why did this evil befall me. where was God? where was God as Satan destroyed Job's family, or when Cain killed his brother?

freewill is a powerful thing. God doesnt want mindless robots. as He writes in Revelations, we were created for His pleasure. He wants companions, not robots, and because we each have a right to use freewill, we are completely able to do evil things.

was your rape Gods failure? first i see the perp as failing. i see society failing to follow God's rules and to send a rapist back to him. i see parents failing to provide a safe enviroment where there kids could talk to them if they were raped. i see parents failing to protect thier children. is it God that failed, or is it men that failed?

when my ex left, i blamed God. a person that wishes can come up with>
_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78510 - 07/10/06 10:10 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Something to think about, is the different native peoples indigenous to the earth.
The aboriginis who are closer to the earth than modern man could ever be, teach modern drug companies how to make drugs from plants.

Tea tree oil is vastly used in medicine, since the indian peoples used the leaves to keep pests from eating their stored foods.

All the indigenous peoples are closer to the earth than modern man who has forgotten what it is like to respect their fellow citizens, and worse, to deeply and profoundly hurt the little ones who walk among us, looking for guidance in their lives.

Survivors I have met here, generally have more empathy with the world and how it should be, and not what someone tells them it should be.

Slavery was never abolished, it was just replaced by poverty and drugs, so it is a rich mans paradise to use and abuse, those they find in poverty or lack of parental support.

The jackal will not give up when it eyes its prey, it will home in using its well learned act of using its prey to defend its lust, just as a bird of prey will never give up the hunt.

What keeps me going is that God did not want me to die, and I can testify that he has helped me on a few occasions already.

There were times in my life, where I asked God to stop this misery of life, he gave me.
But it was not Gods' choice that my life was miserable, it was those he met in life.

If God would turn me away, then I dont know how I should ever live any future life.
I really did think that following the devil was the thing to do, as I had already met the beast.

I chose not to ever be devoured by the beast, and turn away from anything that meant any part of being beast.

I am still the innocent boy who God created, and guess I wish I could share it more in real life.
Dont ever forget the good thing God bestowed on each and every one of us,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78511 - 07/18/06 10:45 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Bobby Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
Darrel,

I feel almost exactly as you do about God, and daily my feelings change. Some days a part of me is very devout and I spend most of the day in a sort of prayerful meditation without even thinking about it much. Other days, that same part of me feels that that place is empty that only the day before was filled with the warmth of a love that could only be described as god-like.
So, I make no judgments. I have decided that no established religion can be my answer, and that all of them are the result of people asking the same questions that I am asking......and then agreeing on a set of answers, because answers are so much easier than questions.

I want there to be a god very much, just as I wanted my father to love me very much. That second one didn't work out, but I still have hope for the first one. I have decided, however, that I will probably never know for sure, and this "hopeful doubting" may be as far as I ever get.

I do discover love in places, however. And, if there is a god, that's what I would want god to be....love in the world. I have found it in great abundance here. I have found it in you. That's why I keep coming back, I think. There is always love here. No matter what life hands me, I know I can come here and find love and caring. I can also find it with my family and in some ways, my church.

So, if god is love, then I think there must be god, because I have known love, and if satan is hate, well, I guess I've certainly known that, too, and at a very early age....not god and satan in the figures of men that we have made in our own image, but in the way mankind behaves and the way each of us behaves towards one another. This place is full of god/love, and I thank, well, god, for it every day.

Bobby

_________________________
I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.




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#78512 - 07/19/06 12:24 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Bobby, you put it very well. I like the way you see things. There's something Divine in a bunch of strangers coming together and sharing the most intimate parts of their lives and not judging each other for it. Whether God exists or not doesn't matter--what matters is the love we have for one other. That is true healing.

Sometimes I ignore what is the most obvious and I make a game out of life and I begin to play religion. The simple things can be the most spiritually profound yet I ignore them. Seeing a sunset, hearing a dog bark, or just sitting alone crying at night are all very simple yet there is something deep in them that can't be grasped with words or communicated.

I don't know why people sometimes fight and argue over ideas of God. Their very Bible they use says that anyone who doesn't love their neighbor cannot possibly love God for how can they love God whom they can't see yet hate their nighbor whom they can see? (1 John 4:20) It doesn't ultimately matter what people believe in or what they think of me--their thoughts are their problem not mine. True love cannot be destroyed with concepts or ideas.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78513 - 07/19/06 07:23 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
we were created for his pleasure?i dont even like the sound of that. my cousin would tell me that god created me for his pleasure sounds to much the same to me.

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78514 - 07/19/06 08:42 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Jesse, people go to church each week, but they do not keep Gods commandments.
A set of simple rules that are pretty easy to follow, but it negates their lust, greed, and whatever other commandment he has given.

You know how people are, they have to be seen to be a little wealthier than next door, or they steal another mans wife etc.

We live in a World where another mans religion is turned into a political football, all in the name of religion, not the war, that ppl cause, which is far beyond religion.

Who do we cry to, when we are in despair!
God, because he is the last call, and we deeply cry for him to help us.

We ask why God cant stop wars, he cant do it, ppl cause wars for political and wealthy gain.
In any war, there is always the little miracles where ppl survive the unthinkable.

In plane crashes or other violent acts, some survive, but why? Did God choose for them to survive, and the others perish!

In past times life was harsh, but so many, men of God have given their own lives for their beliefs.
They have given up wealth that they were born into, to follow Gods word.

If those men could do it for God, then it is pretty easy for us to still follow God, by not breaking his simple rules.

If I look around myself, I see young men who sow their wild oats without ever looking after the child that ensues, they have sown their seed on stoney ground.

Life has a reciprocal effect, you could say that about us, but no, we chose not to reciprocate abuse on others, because we love our neighbour, and would not inflict a life like our own on them.

It makes us mentally more robust, even if we dont think so, it does.
I learned to love, because I had enough of anger, many moons ago.

Wealth, not me, lust, hmmm, try not to, but I am a man, greed, definitely not, sloth, nope.
We all fall short sometimes, it is a human frailty, but God will forgive you for human frailty,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78515 - 07/19/06 09:56 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i have a book called a purpose driven life reading it only intensifies my feelings that this is not what i want or need ,i would like to quote from it here, what i'm getting at is if i read this stuff the first thing that comes to my mind is my abuser ,the parallels are scary ,ok it says god wants all of you,he wants all of your heart,all of your soul all your mind and all your strength ,the same things my abuser demanded from me. obedience unlocks gods power? call on me in times of trouble and i will rescue you,and you will honor me ,salvation maybe but its not free is it? there is a price demanded for salvation ,my abuser would not beat me if i did what he wanted ,salvation but at a price . chapter title, you were shaped for serving god ,i will never serve anything again not man or god.you must surrender your entire being to god,,surrendering is best demonstrated in obedeience you say yes to whatever the lord asks of you to say no to the lord is not acceptable?you cant be in the light of the lord if you refuse to obey him .if you leave out the part that says the lord and put in my abusers name you have exactly the same philosophy.should this be my prayer?god if its in your best intrest to remove this suffering ,please do ,BUT if it fullfills your purpose for me to suffer then thats what i want too. so my suffering is the price i pay for knowing god? not worth the cost to me .real servants dont try to use god for their purposes ,they let god use them for his purposes ,i will never serve anyone again as a slave not man or god.i love this one, god loves to use weak people ! huh sounds so much like what a perp does ,does it not? god wants to use you? nobody will ever use me again ,what i get from this book is, god commands obedeience,god commands that you surrender to him completly ,what you want does not matter its all about what he wants, he wants you heart soul mind and body.and unless you obey you will face eternal pain,dont question his methods or his reasons ,just blind obedeience, how is any of this different than what my abuser demanded of me ? and to top it all off the bible or whatever book you read is filled with threats! believe or burn !obey or be cast out,my abuser would demand unspeakable acts and use the same kind of threats to make me obey ,when i read things that say god is comming and boy is he pissed is that supposed to make me feel comfort?as a child i was not taught to love god i was taught to fear god and i sure learned quick not to depend on god for anything ,cause maybe i'm being tortured cause thats what god planned for me,?no i refuse to accept that. to me if my abuser had written down the rules that i had to live by ?well it would sound a whole lot like the bible to me. i know that many here take their faith very seriously and i hesitate to post about god for fear of offending someone ,but i am just not willing to believe that god intended me to be a slave to him or anyone else.i surrendered my life to a mad man ,i wont make that mistake again ,and if that means i will burn in hell at least i was a free man able to make my own choice.i didnt just follow along blindly while somebody lead me off the edge of a cliff. and i didnt spend a lifetime waiting for something that didnt exist to come and save me ,i cant afford to give what religion demands for god to use me for his purpose. any god that i want to worship will not ask for anything as payment ,salvation should be free ,no strings attached,god should love me for who i am ,not for what i can do for him ,i was not put here to serve anyone or for anyones pleasure. sorry if this is out of place ,but does anyone else see how similar the two things are ,being god ?well anyone who holds the power of life or death over you becomes god. and the biggest trap i fell into was believing that god could take me at anytime,i was just a kid hell if he didnt take my abuser he aint taking me thats for sure,i didnt stop believing in god i just stopped being afraid of him long enough to ask questions ,but the answers seem very generic they can fit a god or an abuser just as eaisly. i dont fear god anymore cause as everyone says he wont do anything anyway.thats not his way right? shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78516 - 07/19/06 10:55 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
shadow, you dont have to believe in God, and I am open if you want to say God is there to provide us with a shield against abuse, he can't, its impossible, and if he could, he would stop every kid being killed or abused right now.

This place would not be here, but guess what!
We pretty much hit the sewer of life when abuse hits us head on.

You talk about God, but you have part of his soul within you, and you show it by making those kids lives so good.

God never wanted Adam to be abused, ppl did, and they chose their own free will to do that.
I have seen evil, the same as you, maybe not so horrific, but take a step back.

Take a step back to who you really are. The letter is playing on yr mind, so I and others tell you to put the letter behind you, because it is not you, it is your abusers mind.

The main thing to think here is that you are not in any way part of the abuse, none of it was yr fault, and I know just how hard that can be sometimes.

My unconscious mind works the same, like I am not real and dont deserve to be here, over and over again, and sometimes it really hurts to think that I blame myself for being abused!

The only one to suffer abuse is the victim, not the perpetrator, and that is how they work, to shift the blame onto you, because they know you are already hurt.

Yeah, we were only vulnerable kids then, but that is what they want, they just hurt the most vulnerable,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78517 - 07/20/06 11:28 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Adam I agree with you 100%. What difference is there between the celestial dictator that threatens us with eternal pain, and Saddam Hussein who said Iraq had free elections but anyone who didn't vote for him was killed? To me, the fear of God is the beginning of suffering not wisdom.

I've long since thrown out my ideas and concepts of God. Ask anyone you want nobody agrees on anything. This guy says it is this, this guy says it is that--there are as many interpretations as there are people. Many of them are just subtle forms of conditioning and control. Do this, don't do that, if you do this then you will be punished, etc...

All I know is that I'm suffering, afraid, and have to deal with psychological issues. I don't want to know about commandments,>
_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78518 - 07/21/06 06:40 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
TexasCowboy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 22
Loc: Houston, TX
Darrel,
It's not that God has failed you, people have. Judeo/Christian/Islamic religions have one major commonality beyond believing in the same
Diety, and the first books of the Old Testament appear in all three's religious texts. That commonality is that they are patriarcial. We are taught in Christianity of the Trinity as being God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, when almost 40% of the time in the Old Testament God is refgerred to in the feminine gender. It might help to get the benevolent, patriarchal, if not mysoginstic idea of God as being male, and referring to your higher power as God, the Creator and Christ the Redeemer, if you follow the Christian path. Above all, keep in mind that in most faiths that practice World life Negation, World Life Affirmation, the Higher Power is loving towards all and does so unconditionally, unlike an abusive father, and a perp who raped you. Most of all, you are in my thoughts and meditations to my Spirit Creator

_________________________
The strongest hearts are sometimes broken,
As the deepest thoughts arent always soken,
and the greatest wounds we hide inside ourselves where they never show

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#78519 - 07/21/06 01:22 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
actually the most common term used in the old books when referring to God is Elohiym. if we translated it litterly it would read gods, plural. you can look at this two ways, the first being that it is plural to encompass all of God's various roles, but the accepted meaning is that is refers to God and the angels. also the oldest book in the bible is actually Job. it was written 1800-1700BC.

again, i ask why are we here? we are here to be tested, to see if we will love God or not. the troubles here, both brought on by nature and man, and those brought on by Satan are to test us. if we were never tested, how would God judge who would love him through thick and thin? when the rudiments are burned away at the end of this age, only those things that are under God's protection will remain. those that remain will live with us forever. we dont want another failure like Satan's. God wants to know who will serve Him no matter what. Look at Job. he lost everything, and was sticken awful with painful sores. yet, though he waivered some, he never failed God. Now God knows He can count on Job to love Him no matter what comes. that is what we are here for, to weed out those that do not love our Lord with all that they have.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78520 - 07/24/06 12:59 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Itsback Offline
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Registered: 07/18/06
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Loc: New Mexico
There have been many religous figures or god before the birth of christ. Which one is the right one? You have Cathlics and Protestants killing each other over different interpations of the same book


I dont know if there is ONE god I would like to think there is but I dont know.

What I do know is the commandment are a good base to live your life buy just as I believe that Karma is a mother and it will get you.

Which one is the right one? I dont know. And to have these Wars over who's is right. Man that scares me.

But as I have always said " I dont care what religeon you follow just as long as it makes you happy and comfortable its ok"

So even though I am in search of the answer right now I try to live my life by taking the good things from several different ones and combine them and I am happy with that. Who knows maybe I am trying to cover all the bases \:o )

_________________________
I truely believe the pain made me stronger now I want to let the healing make me softer- Never Stop-Never-Quit-Always Care

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#78521 - 07/24/06 03:45 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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what if you pass the test but loose god along the way?seems like a waste of time .we shoulldnt have to pass a test to be loved by god

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78522 - 07/24/06 12:31 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
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Darrel,

I have commented on this theme several times and I guess you have seen what I said there. I think the fullest idea I give in one of those "Creating safety" threads I started, probably the one on "why me?".

I would just stress one thing: it's okay to challenge God. He's used to it! He would want you to be honest with yourself, with others you love, and with Him. You aren't a bad person if you admit your humanity and claim your right to question.

If you haven't read this book, this really is a MUST for survivors struggling with this question: Harold Kirshner's "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". It really helped me a lot.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78523 - 07/24/06 07:03 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
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SK, you dont have to pass a test to be loved by God. He loves all his children. Let's consider the flesh we know. let's say you have a large family, and you have one child that is continually rebellious. he goes behind your back, and talks all your other kids into trouble all the time. you try and discipline him, you try everything you know. at what point do you cut off that child for the good of the rest?

see that is what we have now. satan drew a third of the stars to follow him. you have a full third of the children actively worshipping satan. a third that stands idle, and a third actively supporting God. what if some of the third cheating on God, committing adultry if you will, are just confused. what if you removed the unruly child and give them a fresh chance? you might find some are worthy of including in your family, while others were just beyond hope.

we have been through one rebellion, one fall. how many more should we endure before we try to resolve it once and for all? that is what this is about. this is to once and for all see which of us will follow satan, and which will actually love God. it isnt a test for God to love us, it is a test to see if we love God.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78524 - 07/24/06 09:04 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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Adam, if I told you the whole Universe comes from a dot smaller than an atom, you would think I was nuts, but it is, that is exactly where it comes from.

That is scientific fact, born out ot fractal mathematics, and that is why we have black holes which can suck planets and stars into darkness.

Mother nature, aka the Worlds number one terrorist regime runs on a given set of rules, that of man keeping nature in check. When them rules are broken, we get terrifying weather patterns with massive destruction.

"God", aka, all the World leaders cannot, fight mother nature, because she is hidden right at the back of the Amazon basin.

If you met a load of 7yo kids, they will all tell you they believe in God, and they believe in a whole host of other things, but why? Because they see a beautiful World full of surprises and candy floss days.

Then one day, something happens to some of those kids to make them think! Hey, God would not allow this to happen, but with only God to cry to, they will cry to him.

Some of those kids will get into deep trouble, and some go to jail or do drugs.
A few will go on to be abusive adults to their own kids or all kids, and some will go on to follow God.

We are given choice, to be greedy, slothful, etc., but we do not need to follow it, it is our choice. So we say that we will not follow others in following Satan.

Imagine if there were no killings, no abuse, and everyone was nice to each other, we would not need armies, not many police in riot gear, with guns etc.

Imagine if people were not greedy, and its one of the easiest ways to follow Satan, but God wanted all of his children to share in his World.
Imagine the importance of teaching a child to share, one concept that I use, and parents should use it, because it teaches a child to be open with their parents.

I dont know about reincarnation, but imagine the rich men coming back to what they created in their goal for riches, a barren World of destruction and toxins, plus mass epidemics.

Imagine the rich man who hunts for pleasure, would he feel the same way if he came back as the prey of another hunter, I guess not. And would he still believe that the animal enjoyed being hunted down, nah.

What goes around comes around, and that is the issue of paying things forward without recourse to being paid back for what you do, because God will pay you back a thousand fold.

Ever notice the wise man! He didnt just become wise, he looked hard at life and how it goes around and around, the killing fields, and mass slaughter that should deeply anger nations is somehow acceptable if politicians can label it as anti this or that.

The Romans did it, and they had massive weapons against the peasants they were fighting, but the peasants rebelled with such force and anger that they had to flee many battles.

So God does work in mysterious, and you have paid things forward by helping others in here, and believe me, it is priceless for those you help.

Larry,

your signature implies that you have visited Liverpool!

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78525 - 07/25/06 03:02 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner:

I would just stress one thing: it's okay to challenge God. He's used to it! He would want you to be honest with yourself, with others you love, and with Him. You aren't a bad person if you admit your humanity and claim your right to question.

That's it, though hardly anyone ever questions because we fear challenging the priest or the minister or the Book. At my old church, we used the sin of death or sin against the Holy Spirit to "motivate" believers.

I actually lasted five years from ages 16-21 before I realized that I was being controlled though they don't even know they are controlling.

In their eyes, I won my ticket to hell for leaving: Now it is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gifts, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God and the wonders of the coming age, and then fallen away to be renewed to repentance again. Heb. 6:4-6

The spiritual conditioning that we sometimes experience can go very deep and it is similar to SA as Adam pointed out. Who will I be now if I'm no longer Christian or Jewish or Buddhist or whatever? I've believed in these things for years now and I've dedicated my life to them so there's no way I can be wrong... therefore I must try and prove the other spiritual views wrong otherwise I lose my identity.

We are told to not question to just go along with what we have been taught. Obedience is what is stressed--so called living in the Spirit. We are told that God is a jealous god and to follow any other god invokes his wrath even unto the fourth generation. Exo. 20:5

There was a time when I believed in these traditions and felt the Bible was 100% true; I have long since questioned these and found my own way. Thank God I don't believe in God anymore.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78526 - 07/25/06 03:53 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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but what can we believe in?whats left ,maybe truth ?i have a question ,in many of the possible answers to the god question ,its always man who fails its man who does the bad with his free will,why so quick to blame mankind? maybe god is to blame for not making it possible for men to live as he wants them to.but all the good things in the world?well god gets the credit for all of that! why cant i just believe that there are good people who care and do good things,but we are taught its god working through them ,also every possible answer having god in it ,has the word freewill in it ,ok i can accept that ,but no i cant because in that same answer it will be said that the bad stuff was satan working through the perp,but wait freewill,but wait satan is using the perp,if satan controls the bad and god controls the good where the hell does freewill come into play?its gotta make sense to be believed . shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78527 - 07/25/06 08:51 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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Let us not get too mixed up here, if I had say four kids, and three, or even one of them turned out real bad, who would I blame? God!,Me, or somebody else.

If I brought them up well enough and gave each of them love and attention, I guess it would not be my fault. So I would have to look at other influences outside my family.

Two words, Love vs Lust, Lust is a sin, maybe not for thinking about it, but for sure to put it into play. The good looking guy who beds loads of women and has loads of kids, who he doesnt ever get to know.

Other guys idolise him because he can do that, and they want to be just like him, but they cant.
That is jealousy, another sin.

Its so easy to break away from God, and if not checked early on, it turns really sour.
If you live your life as God wanted, then you are his child and will not be claimed by Satan.

Mankind is today witnessing the power of Satan in the current 'wars' in the middle east.
Man is conditioned to thinking that this is for the 'good' of the west, but God and man should and will think otherwise.

God will one day make it abundantly clear to all those who have gone against his power, and abused the free will he gave them, and will put them in eternal bondage,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78528 - 07/25/06 12:25 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
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i guess it ultimately comes down to this, God will reveal the mystery to those He desires, and the rest are blind to it. to me it makes perfect sense, and it fits together into one neat package. the problem is that there is no way in a few words here to share that, and even if i wrote many words, the world is blinded to God. it always has been. in the end God allows only a few to see beyond the veil, only those that He has a job for. the rest are left with one hope, seek and ye shall find. the problem is seeking isnt sitting at home watching TV, or even showing up on a pew on sunday. seeking is actively pursuing God and understanding. so many claim to love God or even hate Him, and yet they make no effort to know Him at all. He wrote you a love letter. how thick is the coating of dust on yours? pray for eyes to see, and ears to hear, and read, and never stop reading until you understand.

what is happening now in the mideast could be the deadly wound, or it might not be. only time will tell, but time is getting short. i have faith in the end that all things will be revealed as God wills. you will understand in the end, and you will see how meaningless this flesh is. it stinks, it rots, it gets sick, and it is pretty worthless in the big picture. God cast it off lightly, very young, because it just doesnt really mean much. if you place your faith in it, you will only find dissapointment. the true treasure is what is beyond most people's sight.

it is written the whole world wanders after the beast. not a few, but all except those that have the seal of God in their mind, and are reserved for thier testimony against it. the rest will not see. most will not see. i know it will be that way, because it is written, and it will come to pass. no matter how many times i try and share God's warning, most will not hear. they dont want to, because it is strange to them, and unimportant to them. put your trust and faith in God, and seek in His letter to you, and you will find His truth, and you will understand. allow the world to present Christ to you on a silver platter, and to allow others to think, and you will be decieved. it is written, and it will come to pass.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78529 - 07/25/06 08:22 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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I never go to church, but that does not make me less worthy of God.
I went to my cathedral on Sunday which is split into many chapels and is shaped like a wigwam.

I always feel overwhelmed when I go there, as it is a true place of prayer with nuns praying.
Then they started a mass with the choir in one of the chapels, so I watched on for a while.

The pipe organ is one of the biggest in Europe, and it is so impressive. I lit a candle in one of the chapels, and visited the mosaic from my old church that I always prayed to.

They painstakingly took it down tile by tile and put it back together in the chapel, and it shows our lady throwing down balls of fire to those who do not believe.

I will be posting some images in image forum shortly, featuring the cathedral and the mosaic.

ste

---------------------------------------------

“The fact that violence against children is such a difficult issue to discuss brings to mind a passage from author Cormac McCarthy’s The Crossing: ‘the wicked know that if the ill they do be of sufficient horror men will not speak against it. That men have just enough stomach for small evils and only these will they oppose.’ ”

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78530 - 07/26/06 12:07 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
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church isn't a place. any time two come together in fellowship of Christ they are in church. the rapture has so infiltrated the world's churches that i cannot find one local to attend. i cannot take part in that, because i know better. see, for someone that does something in ignorance, God can excuse them. if you dont know any better, and have not been taught any better, then you may still have forgiveness. this is why God leaves most pretty blind to the mystery, for thier own protection. with knowledge comes great danger, for a person is accountable for that knowledge. i sometimes catch a lot of flack for saying what i do, but see i dont have a choice. if i am going to speak of heavenly things, i must speak what i know. if i dont, i will account for it.

many of the ancient cathedrals around are fantastic buildings. as a history nut, i love old and storied things. they have great value and history in our faith. i can't access the pictures here, but it sounds great.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78531 - 07/26/06 09:38 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
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I have read many religions and have spent a lot of time alone in my life relating to my role, and finding God's path.

Survival is not about surviving the past, it is about surviving things that I have yet to be challenged with.

The world I live in, is not what I would like it to be, and yes, we need to teach others the true meaning of life as we perceive it.

Church has no meaning to me, I have gone far beyond what the man of the cloth has to speak.
Are those who visit God's chapel ready to be received unto himself.

They may have confessed their sins, and yet proceed to commit more sins, thinking that God will atone them for those sins, and even the sins they are blind to.

A flash of anger, a wicked glance, bearing false witness aha, the list is endless, but they are all the things I avoid in life, and try to live life as it is meant to be.

No man can be perfect in an imperfect world, but he can but try, and if he tries, then surely his world can be a safer place to be,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78532 - 07/27/06 05:18 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
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upon repenting our sins are blotted out. they never happened. for us to continue to grieve over them is in actuality a sin, because we are doubting God can forgive us. certainly we all need to try and live above sin, but none of us will. thank God for Christ's blood so that we can have forgiveness after we slip.

i wish you all the best. cling to God, and file away what i have said. in time, perhaps you will recall that i warned if one shows up, working wonders and claiming to be Christ, and you are still in the flesh, it is not Him, but is a fake. in remembering, repent and you may very well be the first fruits of this flesh age.

each of us must find our own path, and i wish you all a safe and happy journey.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78533 - 07/28/06 04:39 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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please dont take this wrong but i had to say it ,when i read posts about god and how those who dont follow him will be punid=shed in the end ,i get this picture in my head,there is this huge crowd in the streets people everywhere,in the middle of the crowd is this guy ,long hair ,white robe,barefoot and he is holding a sign ,on one side it says doom ,on the other side it says the end is near.but hes been there for like years!i waited too long for god to save me ,but he did nothing ,so i have trouble fearing what he will do if he ever does show up ,which i seriously doubt will happen. if god came today would he ask my forgivness? he should.so i say god is comming aND BOY AM I PISSED!god has been punishing me since the day i was born ,i have nothing to fear from him,he has shown me the worst already.hey god did i pass the test? i really dont care.maybe i failed god as miserably as he failed me,but i didnt create him and promise to protect him now did i?maybe one day i will stand before god ,wonder if he knows what the middle finger means?,yes i am aware of what i'm saying and please those who believe and are only trying to help those who dont ,my anger is between me and god and i thank you for trying to help me understand .i know people will think ,that dude is gonna burn in hell for saying this stuff,but i been to hell and back again ,will god sentence me to what?my life?yeah maybe thats my punishment to have to live this life. adam

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78534 - 07/28/06 05:17 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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Adam, right at your age, I felt exactly like you are doing.
I thought, hey God, look what I gotta face in life, a world where I cannot even use the brains he gave me.

I honestly thought that I would end up being a hobo, every job on earth I must have done, with all the low pay, when I could have done a load better if I got to Uni.

I thought I would be dead by 40, and here I am, chugging along at 52, and still pretty healthy.
I can honestly say that you got a ticket to Heaven if you dont do anything real bad.

He has helped me numerous times, let me down on others, but he is the one who will save you, and he will shower you with love for eternity.

At least you can talk it out, because the older guys had to figure it all out alone, believe me, thats a toughie,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78535 - 07/28/06 05:40 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Leaving aside the religious aspects of this, I would just suggest that if you view your life as a punishment it will be difficult ever to find happiness in it.

I don't deny your right to be angry, I'm just pointing out that unless you can find some way to draw a line under it and move on it will continue to harm you.

And I do think anger harms us after a point. It owns and manipulates us and refuses to let us see anything but itself. That's the real curse of it.

I'm not suggesting when or how you should do this. I'm just pointing out that at some time in the future you may see that your anger is just taking you in circles - revisiting all the same (real) grievances but never offering you any solutions. At that point you may want to consider whether it would be better just to let go of the anger, or rather, make it let go of you.

Sorry if I sound patronizing; I don't mean to be doing that at all. It's just a very difficult topic to address.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78536 - 08/03/06 06:25 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Kenn Offline
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Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
This has been a great series of posts to read. Thank you all for your contributions!

Throughout my 46 years I have nearly always managed to keep some sort of God contact going, consciously sometimes and, more often, subtly.

I have come to the conclusion that the more I think I know about God the more I am proven wrong.

The one constant in my life has been some kind of energy inside which has allowed me to persevere. I call that God. When I can't seem to feel connected with others (even fellow "seekers"), as is so often the case, I find that connection in music or in nature or in a multitude of other ways. To put it more accurately it finds me, thus sustaining me even when I am not consciously feeling particularly hungry for God.

I hold on to another image of God from my childhood, nowadays often referred to as "my imaginary friend", which/whom I could talk to even about secrets and shame and other stuff that my traumatized self could not share with anyone else. God doesn't, in that way, respond immediately with any "answers". When I have journeyed with people going through the loss of loved ones, when there is nothing adequate to say, that energy/force/imaginary friend has managed to comfort and console where I could not possibly.

When I've been angry at God it has usually been because He/It was not acting the way I believed He/It was supposed to. The Mystery has been consistent.

Kenn

_________________________
"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

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#78537 - 08/03/06 06:46 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Kenn,

I like your comment about the Mystery being consistent. That's an interesting way to phrase the dilemma.

And you are right about anger. We are angriest at God when He doesn't do what we think He should do FOR US! My own reply, however, would simply be this: Why do we think He should do all these things for individuals? If we look at the world we live in, we see the proof every day that God does not work like that. That is, he doesn't step in to "save" innocents. Not us, but not others either.

Once I realized this it obliged me not to reject God, but rather to drastically revise my expectations of Him and to try to find His hand in the world in other ways.

I know other brothers here will not agree with me and I respect their dissent. All I am saying is this is what worked for me.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78538 - 08/03/06 08:21 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
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Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kenn,

God is a mystery, but everything is also a mystery.
I too see all the beauty around me, as I am more aware of natural things in life.

The Bible was never written, it is just like today where media takes away most of the facts.
The Vatican holds some of the mysteries, but still a lot are missing.

The almighty God, could end suffering tomorrow, but he lets man decide their own fate.
These men of greed and anger mete out abuse all their lives, then think a man in a smock can just wipe away their sins by confessing.

Think again, God is the ultimate judge!
Your life is a brief calculation of 100 years, which is nothing in eternity.

I could have had a family but chose not to, so my children were never born.
I would have brought them up to be good in their lives, and thrive through nurture.

Abuse stopped that, so the abusers curtail God's way of putting his lambs onto the planet through mans lust to abuse.

I could have turned into an abuser myself, but I would never have done things like that to kids.
I wrote about paying things forward, and that is the best way to be.

I helped the little old lady next door to get into her house when the lock broke.
A boy of about 13yo climebed through her window that I had opened and accepted some money off her.

When she came to me to offer me money, I refused it, even though I dont have much.
Its my way of paying things forward, and it is worth more than money.

Its the real butterfly effect, where, if we do these little favors, we get them back.
If we spread anger and hatred, it comes back on us also.

I wish the world was not so blind to follow politicians into despair,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78539 - 08/17/06 12:02 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Stder Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 17
Loc: Albion, Mi
I read my Bible now and all I see are people trying to make sense of God. They don't know for sure what He is like, they're just doing their best to figure Him out. Maybe we all are. I want to get to know Him, but it all feels so jumbled, I don't know what to believe about Him myself. Sometimes I think maybe there is no God, that the Bible was just man's best effort to describe a power they knew must exist. I hate that I'm writing this, becase I want to believe He does exist. Maybe I still have just a little faith that He does exist and He cares for us, even though I don't understand.

_________________________
Luke 18:10-14 Once there were two men who went into the temple to pray... for those who make themselves great will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be made great.

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#78540 - 08/17/06 12:41 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Stder,

I think it's just human to question things we don't understand, and theologians of many faiths have been doing that about for many centuries where God is concerned. I don't think God holds that against us, and I don't think you should feel badly that you are joining those who have such questions.

My own faith has taken a severe battering over recent years, but has been restored in ways that I have tried to describe here but am not really sure of myself. I guess this is a question we have to answer ourselves, each in our own way.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78541 - 08/17/06 03:01 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
man, there is no way man came up with the Bible on thier own. if you really get studying it deeply, the way it all interlocks, and books written thousands of years apart support each other is beyond any man. if you really search those words, you will find Him. not everyone is blindly stumbling at the word, but it is in God's hands who he gives an eye to see and an ear to hear. does that sound unfair? much of the Bible can seem unfair, until you see inside the mystery, but only God can unlock it. as Christ taught, he spoke in riddles because it isnt meant for everyone to see. God gives each what they can handle, and if they truly seek, He gives them enough to ensure thier salvation, but no one gets it all.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#78542 - 08/17/06 08:39 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
The Bible is incomplete, and a lot of the mysteries are held in Vatican vaults.
These bibles, were transcribed with feathers dipped in ink and embellished with colors.

The bible is made up of testament to all who wrote of how life was at the time.
It is not our time but a time where life was totally different than anything we could perceive.

When we were kids we all screamed at God, especially when we were told he could perform miracles, and would not let kids be hurt.
None of it makes much sense to a kid who is hurt.

We were the "lucky" ones, or were we?
I asked God to end my life on more than one occasion because the hurt was so bad, but he gave me and you guys the tools to survive.

Survive is all it is sometimes, but we can see the world in a better light if we stick to our road of being true to God, and what he wanted us to be.

I live in a World today that is unfamiliar to the World I grew up in. It is a World were untold things are done to innocents around the globe.

Millions of kids and adults must be crying out every night, but that is life, it is my past and yours, but at least we know it goes on,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78543 - 08/29/06 12:54 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
We are having an abuse prevention day at Church in a few weeks. I will be doing the sermon. I am not a preacher, but I will be telling my story and talking about the prevalence of abuse inside and outside the church. I will also be talking about the god I learned about as a child, the same god that is a lie and never did exist. I will be telling about the God I am learning to know. I know that this is a lot to fit into one talk so I'll keep working on it and maybe ditch part of it. You guys have given me a whole truck load to think about as I work on this talk. Thanks, I really appreciate the discussion on this thread.

Love ya

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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