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#78500 - 07/07/06 05:23 AM A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
My faith in God has been shaken to its very core. I have been angry with him, I have been in love with him and now my faith is weak if it is there at all. The things I once believed in have been proven not to be factual and I’m not sure just exactly where this leaves me.

My father used to call me names and would beat me and throw things at me. Then I was taught that God is a “father.” As a child, I knew that he couldn’t be like my dad. So I figured that he was everything my dad was not. God would love me; he would protect me. That is what my teacher at church taught me. All I had to do was pray and ask him to keep me safe. I prayed; God did not protect me. I was raped by a pathetic piece of humanity that out weighed me by about 100 pounds and then made me clean myself up with crusty old rags that had obviously been used for this purpose on previous occasions. And while I huddled there in the corner of that little shack trying to find the cleanest corners of those smelly old rags, and with tears streaming down my face I prayed to God to forgive me for being such a bad boy.

I have no idea how it happened, but I grew to love and worship that God. Now I no longer believe in that God, or if I do, I now see that what I saw of him was but a very small part of the picture and even that was blurry and out of focus. I have said to others on this discussion board that the God they learned about as a child was a lie and never existed but somehow never saw that as applying to me. Now I have come face to face with the reality that my God was also a lie.

So here I am, wondering what to do next. For me, atheism is not an option, neither is agnosticism. I believe there is a God. I also believe that he somehow cares about me. And I believe in Jesus and all the rest. But my picture of God, his character and what he is like, has been so messed up that there is absolutely no way to even tell who it is supposed to be a picture of in the first place. So here I am starting all over again. Not sure what parts of my picture of God are accurate and what parts are not. Yes, there are some things that are obvious such as God does not do physical and emotional abuse like my dad did or sexual abuse like taxi guy.

So the thing I find myself having to do is to throw out the canvas and start all over. I must not paint the picture myself; fact is, I must not paint it at all. Somehow, I must let him do the painting. I must learn to know him, who he is. I need to recognize him in the people around me and in the world in which I live. I must learn to know him in his word. I must look for him with all my heart because it is only then that I will find him.

Wanting to know God,

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78501 - 07/07/06 12:46 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Nobbynobs Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by Derdlecar:
So the thing I find myself having to do is to throw out the canvas and start all over. I must not paint the picture myself; fact is, I must not paint it at all. Somehow, I must let him do the painting. I must learn to know him, who he is. I need to recognize him in the people around me and in the world in which I live. I must learn to know him in his word. I must look for him with all my heart because it is only then that I will find him.
Derdle,

You have already taken the first step. The rest will come. I wish I could tell you how, but I think it is different for everyone. I always tell people to listen to the Beatles, because that is what worked for me.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#78502 - 07/07/06 03:15 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Darrel,

you have already found God.
He cannot protect us from Evil, but he can help you in different ways.

You have your own spirituality, and you make all the kids smile by acting young and stuff.
People often forget the good things that happen, to which we never thank our Creator for.

Dont forget, he was the one you cried out to when nobody could hear.
I cursed him a few times, but I know he has paid me back in many ways.

So just carry on being you,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78503 - 07/08/06 02:25 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Elad 12 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast
Darrel,

Read your post this morning and didn't know how to respond Went to work. Came home and read it agian and I still don't know what to say. I hear what you are saying and I think I feel much the same. It gives me plenty to think about. Thanks.

Dale


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#78504 - 07/08/06 05:11 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Derdlecar,

To have faith shaken is a good thing for it can then show what is as opposed to what we think should be. This is a problem I've always had too. I get caught up in the methods and the systems of spiritual practice and I don't want to find out for myself. I read the sacred books including the Bible, the Gita, the philosophers, and all the rest of them and I find out that I'm playing the same game as before. Accepting authority is not the same as finding truth. Someone basically hands me a list of dos and don'ts and I feel by following them I will find truth.

Then I find only conflict and frustration because there is again the should be versus the what is. Whenever there is duality, there exists conflict for either the one will be superior to the other or else inferior to it. To compare myself to anything--whether its examples or spiritual laws invites judgement. When judgement enters the picture I start labeling myself a sinner or a spiritual, I feel my spiritual life is substandard or superior, or I become lukewarm, etc... These sorts of judgements only add more to the problem.

Then there is the idea of progress. Trying to see whether I'm making progress in spirituality is basically saying I'm better than these others or they are better than me. Again, more judgment and problems.

So you see when I'm off to search for something greater, something higher, it is because I feel my life is very painful at the moment and it's not worth living--I've already judged myself as bad. So what happens? I read or hear about something spiritual and I think I've found the answer but the truth is that I want to take another spiritual pill to forget about my problems. I want God, truth, or whatever, to take my problems from me. Not very different, though less damaging, than the alcoholic who drinks away his problems. I can meditate till I'm buzzed or numbed out by chanting, prayer, mantras, and so on, then I feel better but the problems remain after I "sober" up.

The problem really is that of seeing clearly--seeing the what is not the what I want. Belief or non-belief in God, heaven, and so on, is really irrelevant. Belief can't make something real no matter how real it seems. i.e. the world feels flat yet it is round. I can meditate, and I have done so, on a picture of Christ, Buddha, or Krishna until they become very real to me but that's just extreme conditioning. The mind will give you what you want if you tell it long enough.

What really happens when I take up a new spiritual practice is that I throw off one type of conditioning for another. As long as I keep asking "How to find truth? How to find God?" there will be hundreds of teachers, preachers, gurus, philosophers, books, etc... with the answers, methods, systems. The very idea of searching is wrong for it implies that I will recognize it when I find it. But if truth is indeed unknown to me, then I can't search for it--I can only let it come to me. But if my mind is playing with ideas and concepts of what truth is then I won't see it when it comes. This is because I've already determined what it is and I merely compare it to what I think it should be.

So ignorance is a good place to be at. Someone like me has to undo all the learning that I have accumulated over the years to get to ignorance again. A mind that is full of ideas sees reality filtered through those ideas. This is why the mind must be quiet and purged of all ideas, concepts, judgments, and beliefs, if it is to know truth. Don't take my word for it nor believe what I say--find out for yourself.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78505 - 07/08/06 11:54 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
True spirituality is not learned, you were born with it.
Often in life, we are taught bad things, by just living for today.

The media, and Government, tell us what they think we should know.
Terrorists, rapists, child molesters on every corner, no wonder our spirituality takes a nose dive.

Maybe its just because I am older and wiser now, but I dont watch TV, I only watch factual stuff, not the judgemental crap thrown down your throat till it chokes you.

Innocence in childhood is what we were born with, it may be corrupted but it is still there.
I wanted so much to change the world as a child, and I had my own vision.

Idiots who run our lives, tell us to expect this or that, and what they say is right.
Let your own mind discover the real meaning of life, and dont let them tell you how to live.

Your own judgement is often the best, without any help from anyone else, so step back, and see life the way it was meant to be.

Paint your own canvas on the true you, and those you meet in life will take a little bit, or give something back in return.

The canvas becomes a tapestry of true color, and will give you more strength as you see the painting emerge and discover who you really are,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78506 - 07/08/06 06:42 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16265
Darrel,

I was sharing this with Nobby just yesterday. Quite a few months ago a friend of mine told me something. This man is a counselor at recovery weekend retreats (not MS). What he said was difficult for me to take in because it went against some inner core belief I held.

He said "As an adult recovering from childhood trauma you need to be prepared to bring into question every value you ever held, including your concept of God, your parents, every core belief."

He went on to say that the reason for that was not to get rid of it all, but to separate out the skewed thinking that resulted from the abuse. To go through it all piece by piece and abandoning the bad stuff, but keeping the good.

As abused boys, we got our concept of God from the authority figures that abused us whether it was sexual, emotional, or physical abuse. We learned that authority was not reliable to keep us safe and that we had to depend on ourselves because there was no one else on whom to depend.

Now as adults we have to go back and differentiate between those misconceptions of God and the ideas about him that are valid such as compassion and love. I think, too, that we need to come to understand that even now, our ability to keep ourselves safe is not always perfect, and that trusting in God's love and compassion is essential for true safety.

Following Nobby's example, I'll leave you with a quote.

"And God will keep the man in perfect peace whose mind rests in him"

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78507 - 07/09/06 03:27 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Thanks for the replies.

I thought I knew what God was like, now I feel like I don't know him at all. I am at peace with that however because I think I am on the verge of something big. Like maybe I will finely get to know who God is if that is possible. Or at least maybe what I learn will not be skewed.

Thanks again for your replies and your friendship.

Love ya all

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78508 - 07/09/06 03:31 AM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
FLRich Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Darrel,

I am in the place you are spiritually, most of the time. However, I am becoming more accepting of Him and realizing that He gave us free will. Free will can be used to do good, to do absolutely nothing, or to do evil. If He didn't give us free will, we would be a bunch of little clones doing the same thing perfectly.

That being said, I still have wondered why the God I was taught who would protect me when I was good, and punish me when I was bad, thought that I was bad enough to be punished in such an evil way. How damn bad could I have been at 8 yrs old?

As confusing as God seems to me, I find that most of the confusion comes from what others have taught me about Him. Just because one set of beliefs works for them, does not mean that same set of beliefs will work for me. God made us as individuals. I think He deals with us as individuals.

I am finding that I have to rid myself of the old beliefs taught to me, and allow God to show Himself to me, personally. Yeah I get real mad at God, but He always seems to make more sense to me now than when I was an abused kid and teen.

As sad and pathetic as the facts are that human suffering goes on each day, I think that your brother John's signature quote is absolutely on target. It hit me like a ton of bricks a few minutes ago when I read it. Bad things happen to us, but perhaps we can help others going thru the same pain. We do it here at MS, and I'm sure we do it on a more personal level, too. What that quote tells me is that God is able to live in us, and through us, if we allow Him to. We ultimately get the blessing by being a blessing unto others.

Just my .02 worth.

And by the way, you may not know it, but you and you brother have been a blessing to me many times on this board. I rarely respond, but I must tell you, "Thank you, Darrel."


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#78509 - 07/10/06 07:32 PM Re: A Shaken Faith *triggers*
phoster Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
I think many of us here have had these questions and feelings. why did this evil befall me. where was God? where was God as Satan destroyed Job's family, or when Cain killed his brother?

freewill is a powerful thing. God doesnt want mindless robots. as He writes in Revelations, we were created for His pleasure. He wants companions, not robots, and because we each have a right to use freewill, we are completely able to do evil things.

was your rape Gods failure? first i see the perp as failing. i see society failing to follow God's rules and to send a rapist back to him. i see parents failing to provide a safe enviroment where there kids could talk to them if they were raped. i see parents failing to protect thier children. is it God that failed, or is it men that failed?

when my ex left, i blamed God. a person that wishes can come up with>
_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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