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#78347 - 05/07/06 10:22 PM Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
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I guess if we all say a prayer, it is good for the world.
Passing on good thoughts are pretty much the same thing.

Just try being your mind for five minutes a day.
Blank out all emotions and just think how good it would be to take someone out of hurt.

I guess its not impossible,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78348 - 05/08/06 04:11 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Nobbynobs Offline
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Personally I never stop praying. I try to keep up an ongoing (and silent) conversation as I go about my day. Just my way, I guess. I do it in little ways, for example if I hear a sad story about someone, I try to whisper a little prayer, usually something like, "please take care of them."

Actually, reading this I think one of the reasons I do this is because I find that talking directly to God is a bit like drinking from a fire hose. Rather than get the full blown effect once a day I like to spread the euphoria around. That way I can take things in my time, plus I get to feel joy all day. ;\)

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#78349 - 05/08/06 04:28 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Prayer is one area where I still have trouble, having been abused by a Scout leader who was also big in our church. I know it's not a productive feeling, but Little Larry still feels ashamed to pray after all the things that he was made to do.

Another area to work on.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78350 - 05/08/06 05:05 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
who should i pray to?during my abuse i prayed every day the prayers of a kid living in hell .i cant say they were ever answered ,so i just stopped praying at all. yes i survived but on my own . shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78351 - 05/08/06 05:13 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

I don't know if you have heard me mention this book in the past, but it helped me a lot and it might help you. It's When Bad Things Happen to Good People by Harold Kushner. Copies are very cheap on Amazon. The book is by a Jewish rabbi, but it isn't religious propaganda. It's the thoughts of a father who lost his son to a terrible debilitating illness.

Please believe me when I say I am not trying to preach at you. Kushner doesn't do that either. I think you will be surprised at how he sees things.

I don't think one needs to be religious to benefit from reading this book. I will just say that it helped me to put down a lot of anger.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78352 - 05/08/06 05:22 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
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Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I say a prayer every day on the river, I also say a prayer at night for all those in darkness.

Adam, none of us thought God listened, but you are here, a great guy.

You bring joy even though you were hurt so bad, but you have a unique way in this world,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78353 - 05/08/06 05:50 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Posts: 2437
the sad thing about my feelings on god is that when i said those prayers i believed with the conviction of a child ,do you remeber what you thought about god at 11 years old? i believed boy did i believe !god was like a superhero who would protect me if i was good and punish me if i was bad ,i also believed in santa and the tooth fairy ,not trying to be funny but it was that kind of belief ,even worse is the fact that i want so badly to believe in some higher power , i feel so guilty for how i feel about god .i didnt give up on god god gave up on me. even now if i try to understand ,i only get more confused,if i believe in god then i have to question why? did i do something so bad that god didnt think i deserved help? was everything punishment from god? after the abuse did i have to suffer in foster care because of how mad i was at god ?or is it simply that god was like santa and the tooth fairy ,just something adults used to make kids be good? too many questions without answers ,how can i just simply believe?is it faith? i had faith in god ,in my parents ,in the court system ,i so believed that god would protect the children but he dont does he .if god sees everything and can change it ,then dont you think it's time to wake up ?look around ,watch the news it is very hard to believe anybody is watching over the children.i have been told about free will but did the 11 year old have free will not to be abused?i have been told it made me a better person but at what price ,i have been told that it was a test of my faith !? what kind of god would put a child who he loves through that kind of hell just to see if he would still believe ? yes i know what happened to jesus but i was not a saint i was an 11 year old boy waiting for help that never came. shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78354 - 05/08/06 06:03 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

I recognize the sincerity and pain in all your questions. As I said elsewhere you have every right to be angry.

Have a look at what I say about this in my "Why me" thread. Part of the answer is that the world isn't fair. It never was. If it were fair, there would be no war, genocide, famine or disease; planes would never crash and ships would never sink. My Poppop (my name for my grandfather on my mother's side) would have lived so I could tell him what had happened to me, instead of wasting away from cancer. You and I, and all the rest of our brothers here, would have been spared the hell we endured.

Again, I hope you will look at Kushner's book. He does NOT throw religious propaganda at you.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78355 - 05/08/06 06:13 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Yeah! What price is there to pay!
I screamed at God also, we all did, no kid should be left to figure it out, not now, or in the past.

Every day we relive great tragedy on Earth, but God cannot stop the evil among the good.

I remember seeing a woman pushing her son around the shops on a regular basis, he must have been around 12yo.

He did look very ill, and I thought!
Why does God do this, why does he let little ones suffer with ill health.

Then I just never saw him again, so I guess he died, but that is the nature of life, and how desperately tough it can be to witness tragedy such as that.

Yeah, we all pretty got pissed off with spiritual things, but it was one of the only things I had to use as a crutch, possibly you too,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#78356 - 05/08/06 06:32 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Nobbynobs Offline
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Registered: 06/26/05
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Larry, can you post a link to your why me thread? I can't find it.

Thx

And to follow on the thread, I think evil occurs because we have all been given free will. Some choose to do evil. Others do not. I'm not sure that God would stop evil from happening, because in so doing, he would remove that free will. Where he does intervene, I think, is on the other side, i.e., there are good people doing his work. Personally I think MS is made up of some of those people, so Adam et al, when you ask "where is God" I would say "he's right here."

Just a thought.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#78357 - 05/08/06 08:15 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Adam, shadow got you through with the help of God, he is here right now.

Ever read this!


One night a man had a dream. He dreamed
he was walking along the beach with the LORD.


Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene he noticed two sets of
footprints in the sand: one belonging
to him, and the other to the LORD.


When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.


He noticed that many times along the path of
his life there was only one set of footprints.


He also noticed that it happened at the very
lowest and saddest times in his life.


This really bothered him and he
questioned the LORD about it:


"LORD, you said that once I decided to follow
you, you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life,
there is only one set of footprints.

I don't understand why when
I needed you most you would leave me."

The LORD replied:

"My son, my precious child,
I love you and I would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffering,
when you see only one set of footprints,
it was then that I carried you."

Makes sense to me,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#78358 - 05/09/06 02:30 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Nobbynobs Offline
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Classic

“Have no fear of moving into the unknown. Simply step out fearlessly knowing that I am with you, therefore no harm can befall you; all is very, very well. Do this in complete faith and confidence.”

Pope Jean-Paul II

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#78359 - 05/09/06 04:52 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78360 - 05/09/06 05:01 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Just to refer to my own experience if I may: I used to ask myself a lot, where's God if he's into protecting kids? Why do the others get protected and not me?

Part of the answer is that we never know what others are suffering. They may have their own private hell as well.

But what really helped me was realizing - later on, to be sure - that God had been there after all. When I was being raped or forced to do unspeakable things by the abuser I would dissociate and "go" to a corner in the ceiling and curl up there. I felt safe there, like it wasn't happening to me anymore, like I was being helped to keep my eyes shut and not look any more than I had to.

I now think that I was in God's arms, and that He was holding me and helping me get through this - just one more day.

I remember you talking about being in your closet and feeling safe there. Why would an 11-year-old boy feel safe locked in a closet?

Just some thoughts. But as I said, I am not trying to convince you. You will have to find your own peace over these issues, and I am sure you will have the strength to do that, in a way that answers YOUR questions.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78361 - 05/09/06 05:43 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
please let me say that i know you are all trying to help me understand ,and it feels like i am just wanting to argue this god thing but i do not want to .i know that my brothers here are not preaching at me but helping me ,its just that it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it . does that really make you feel any better? i have seen and read the footprints in the sand and it is a cool way to look at it ,i also see footprints in the sand one set walking in one direction and another walking in the other direction ,they look much the same untill you see the drag marks behind one set ,i see god walking away as my abuser drags me away down the beach .shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

Top
#78362 - 05/09/06 06:31 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

I know you feel that way and it tears me up every time I recall your photo and then remember what was done to you. I would never deny you the right to your rage. In fact, I would insist that you have to OWN your rage and work through it. But the key here is that somehow, and in your own way, you have to get past the anger bro.

You ask a key question:

Quote:
its just that it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it . does that really make you feel any better?
Yes, as a matter of fact it does. Personally, I don't know what God can and cannot do. What I DO know is that he doesn't interfere to save us in the way we want. That much seems clear from - for example - picking up almost any newspaper any day of the week.

So how does this stark reality help me? It helps me by showing me that my answers don't lie in my past ("Why didn't God help me?"), but in my present ("How can He help me now?). I am not that defenseless 11-year-old any longer. I am an adult and my recovery is up to me - no one else can "do it" for me.

So if that's the case, what does God have to do with my recovery? My rabbi friend put it to me beautifully: "Humanity is God's language", by which he means that when we cry out in our agony God sends us people. He has certainly sent me many people, and at times when I did not recognize He was doing so. He sent me my sister, coming home earlier than expected, when I was in the kitchen with my eyes squeezed shut and the knife already on my wrist. That same sister, decades later, when I told her I had been molested as a kid, went off and went into therapy herself, just so she would know what I was going through and could help me in the best possible way. I have had friends gather around me and support me, and the help and support I have gained from my brothers here I will never be able to repay. I am sure that as I continue to heal I will encounter other people who will also help me in important ways. Yes, there have been idiots and toxic people in my life, but I have learned how to shut them out and keep them from hurting me any longer. AND...I don't let their existence blind me to the presence of the many good people who are there for me.

I know you will say that so many have already betrayed you, including those who should have loved you most. That's true, and I know that hurts. I feel for your grief - you deserved a lot better and no one can tell you differently. But you have so much strength and I know you will get past the anger - not by saying okay it doesn't matter, but by seeing that one can rage forever and nothing will have changed.

What I am telling you is how things worked out for me. I didn't plan it this way; I didn't even see it coming. All I know is that this was my way. It has taken me beyond the anger, confusion, fear and shame and allowed me to focus on my qualities, abilities and all the other positive things about myself, and it has allowed me to recognize true fellowship, love and kindness when it comes my way. It helps me to recognize the good people. It allows me to begin to trust myself again and believe that I CAN recover the life that should have been mine from the beginning.

I can't rewind to 1960 and age 11; that is gone, and yes, it hurts. But I think I have a lot of good years in me yet to come, and that's what I have to focus on. There is the real me.

And the real you. You are so young, and it's great you are grasping these issues and dealing with them now. You are finding your own way just as I found mine. In fact you are doing it right now. Your way may be very different from mine. It should be; we are different people and you are so much younger. But it will be your way, and it will get you through. Of that I am confident.

Much love Adam,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78363 - 05/09/06 09:30 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

nobody is preaching to you or anybody, but we do care about you.

God was there at your hospital bed when you were in despair, but did he bring all those good ppl to be with you, who knows!

Maybe that of my prayers and others help ppl like you get through the darkest moments in your life, I dont know.

It is the true meaning of the butterfly effect, where we all have a part in each others understanding of our lives.

If I walk out of my door and sneer on ppl, they may sneer at another, if I smile and say hello, it makes a person that much more likely to say hello to the next person he meets.

It is about good vs bad in the world, if we let bad win, we all lose, but paying things forward brings joy that is spread on and on.

If you look at this post, and it is pretty much a long epic, but a good read.

It shows how society is twisted, but we need not be part of it, we can care and show compassion to others.

Evil spreads evil, evil begets evil.
The first statement is only for those who choose.
The latter has no choice.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#78364 - 05/10/06 09:24 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Morning Star Offline
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Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Adam,
Tonight say a pray to your self and ask ‘it’ to heal you, for while feel its presence in you.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#78365 - 05/10/06 09:29 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Morning Star Offline
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Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
...believe me that is the only 'God' you'll ever need to pray to.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#78366 - 05/10/06 09:37 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Over time you will be able to surrender all your troubles, pain and turmoil to 'it' and be thankful for its presence in your life.

One thing dont ever get carried away by the notion of an external God, it is not only futile but also time consuming!

And when you find what’s within, you would know why fighting with what’s on the outside doesn’t help, because what you are really fighting is what lies on the inside – You!

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#78367 - 06/19/06 09:54 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
We turn to prayer when we consider that the only tool we had was prayer.

It is only God who gets us out of life threatening times in our lives.
Sadly, not for all.

The soldier on the battlefield sent there to kill, cowering as he awaits his fate, who does he trust. God has the power to perform miracles.

We can apply God to all inhuman acts of the World today, but we cannot ask God to do it for us.
It is up to us, to believe that we are truly worth being on Gods Earth.

I know there is at least one occasion when I asked God to save me, and he did, torn and battered but here nevertheless,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#78368 - 06/20/06 06:00 AM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
jesse7 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 105
Loc: AZ
Quote:
Originally posted by shadowkid:
please let me say that i know you are all trying to help me understand ,and it feels like i am just wanting to argue this god thing but i do not want to .i know that my brothers here are not preaching at me but helping me ,its just that it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it . does that really make you feel any better?
Adam, yes it is making me feel better. A lot better. Its amazing how meditating for only a half hour each day makes me feel. Its hard to explain but it's almost like I'm not trying to change others but only the way I see the world yet it still changes everything. Is it self-deception then? If it is then who is deceiving who? Am I one or two?

I sometimes want all the answers. My mind is concerned with trying to solve the enigma of existence and suffering. This is why I studied philosophy. My ego wants to know it all and refuses to admit that the unknown is part of life. All I can say is some things are beyond words and just have to be experienced. My wish for annihilation for example is a religious impulse for Nirvana or seeking liberation from suffering. Most people haven't yet experienced enough suffering to actually want to be set free, that's why it is said that spirituality is for those who have been in hell. And that's okay. If a person is an atheist but is quite happy having an 8 to 5 job with two kids and a wife then God bless their souls. There's no race or contest and no eternal punishment either. Real spirituality is about living in love not in fear.

I was once an atheist and hated God with a passion. In fact, I hated him so much that it made me wonder what was I hating if there was no such Being? I can't help but notice the posts and the time you spend in here in the spiritual forum. You are a very spiritual person--a materialist wouldn't even consider talking about these subjects.

Let me tell you a story about a man named Ramakrishna who lived in India during the 18th century. A woman approached Ramakrishna one day and said to him,"I can't believe in these statues nor feel anything in these stupid temples. Prayer is just talking to myself and the images we revere are things we have created and nothing more." Ramakrishna replied, "Woman, God is pure love. Tell me who do you love?" The woman replied,"I love only my son." "Then that love will be God for you. Go on your way now and learn to see and experience that Divine love in all beings and in all places."

I remember one of your earlier posts was called Salvation in the Eyes of A Child. What you experienced in the arms of that little child was Love, or God if you will. God is not a Santa Clause guy sitting up in some heavenly world. Imagine feeling that love you experienced with all people. Is that possible? If I only love my friends and my family then I'm not that much different from a criminal who also does the same.

Personally I don't like to think of God as a celestial dictator. That's why I never had any qualms about sometimes being angry with him. In fact, because God is inside every person it isn't even possible to hate him because God can't hate himself. If I hate him then I really hate me. Once I become aware of this the hatred vanishes. The philosopher Spinoza also mentions this too in his Ethics 5 Prop 18 and further demonstrates that such hatred becomes love.

The fact of the matter is that sometimes people argue over words. Words like God, Father, Divine Mother, Tao, Buddha, Guru, Brahman, etc... have certain cannotations but those words are very limited and can't describe the Power they are actually referring to. So find your own way. Think Higher Power or Presence or the Higher Self or Love perhaps. Whatever works for you.

May you always find that Love my friend.

Jesse

_________________________
What lies before us and what lies behind us is nothing compared to what lies within us

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#78369 - 06/20/06 04:31 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
roadrunner Offline
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Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Quote:
it seems everyone is content to believe that god knew and felt bad but couldnt stop it. does that really make you feel any better?
I would like to return to this and say I would not put it quite this way. I don't know if God CAN'T stop bad things, it just seems to me that clearly He doesn't.

What had made me feel better are the people God ahs sent to me to advise, comfort, and love me; they have given me the resources to discover strength of my own, and to realize that if I am to recover the decisive steps must all come from me.

In a way it isn't really a matter of "feeling better", at least not right away. It's a matter of realizing that while there is a lot I have to figure out and process about the past, my recovery doesn't lie there. I can't change the past, and no one can give me the answers I want on such issues as "why". After a time I have to realize that the past has taught me enough that I can move on - to the present.

Once I started working in the present, then yes, I began to feel a lot better. In the present I am empowered. I can decide what to do with my like, and emotions and problems from the past I can work on and resolve.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. And yes, I too think you have a spiritual dimension that you are not recognizing yet. Give that one some thought and see what you think.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78370 - 06/20/06 08:41 PM Re: Say a prayer or time to spare
reality2k4 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

Jesse gave you some good examples of our inner human strengths of spirituality.

There are many evil people in the World, it has always been that way.
There are a whole load of good people who would put their lives to save another.

Atrocities happen on a daily basis throughout the World, but I think it would be wrong to blame religion or God, in not stepping in to stop it.

When little adam lit up the faces of the kids next door, he was reflecting their innocence of childhood, and he shown a spiritual protection that a lot of people cannot identify with.

Kids have their own radar with those they meet, and they saw you as a very caring person.
Its give and take, those kids loved the trip you took them on, I bet you loved it too.

Nobody can take away your spiritual self, it is you, and yours alone, your unique identity.
You are also identifying it, and letting it lead you out of some of the past hurt.

I am not asking anyone to believe in God, I am no preacher, it is up to you to question your life.
You're a pretty big guy now, and gentle with it, and that is a pretty good trait.

Think about how you have helped guys in here, is that not a spiritual thing to do, to have the ability to hold out a hand to someone who needs your help.

Who else could do it?
Nobody outside of here could, so you have left a positive mark in everything you have done.

You might say God, sent you here to do just that,

ste

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Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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