Newest Members
Stormchaser, johnnyc717, bluebook, Roscoe, SJC
12314 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
clutzygurl (22), dun (50), Gene (50), ufp1964 (50), Zoot (68)
Who's Online
0 registered (), 13 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
12314 Members
74 Forums
63355 Topics
443006 Posts

Max Online: 418 @ 07/02/12 07:29 AM
Twitter
Topic Options
#78217 - 02/02/06 04:05 PM Why?
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Hi Guys,

One of our brothers here asked me some questions the other day. The questions revolved around the idea of asking God "Why?".

I have to confess that I too have asked those questions and even more angry ones of God over the last 2 1/2 years.

I've thought a lot about it and decided to post my best effort at answering that question here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You’ve asked the great question that’s been asked throughout the centuries of human existence.

Why did God allow…? Where was God when…? Does he even care? Why has this gone on for so many centuries? Why hasn’t he intervened? Etc.

I wish I had an answer for those questions, but I don’t. I know that I, like you, cannot accept the idea that God does not exist, that he has no answers. To do so would make my life not worth living. I have to believe there is something better waiting at the end of the road.

The MAN Jesus, who was also all God, walked this earth two thousand years ago. We’re told in the prophesy of the Messiah (Isaiah 53) that he would be a "man of sorrow and aquatinted with grief". The only folk I know of that have sorrow and grief in their lives are people who’ve had really bad stuff happen to them. Although we’re not told much about Jesus’ early life prior to age 30, I have to believe that he too had some really bad stuff happen to him during those years.

What we do know is that when he was age 33, he was brutalized, hung on a Roman cross, and left there to die at the behest of evil embodied in the religious elite.

Between those years he traveled from town to town healing wounded hearts, loving wounded people, healing the sick and raising folk from the dead. He did it all to show the onlooking world and universe the contrast between his way of love and the way of evil.

Just prior to the crucifixion he told his friends "People will know you are my followers because you have love".

That’s all. I need to love. Given the choice between love, and the evil that put Christ on the cross, or that forced Little John to choose between being killed or naming another child to be victimized in his place, I choose to love.

Does that answer all my questions? No, but I know that at some point when all this evil has been done away with, all of God’s wounded children will be held on the lap of their Savior, have the tears gently wiped from their eyes, and those questions too will be answered. I guess if there is a connection for me between Little John crying in his bedroom while holding his little dog, and God, that is it. It may be a simpleton's view, but It's the only one that makes sense to me.

Until that time the only thing we have in this life is one another. Until that time I choose to love my God, my family, my brothers here on the web site, and all the rest of those around me to the best of my ability. I know that many times I fall short of that goal, but it’s still my goal and my choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

Top
#78218 - 02/02/06 06:31 PM Re: Why?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

That's a moving testament and full of healing and confidence. Perhaps we can't get the answers we want and need, but we can choose how we react to that dilemma.

I guess that's really the challenge - what we choose to do with ourselves when we find ourselves in this terrible situation. It's a choice that will affect all the rest of our lives and how we impact on our loved ones and everyone else around us.

Thanks so much for sharing this.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78219 - 02/02/06 07:20 PM Re: Why?
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
God,

gave us a set of laws called his commandments.

This set of laws are so easy to understand yet people break them every day throughout time.

I cried so much to God, and I thought he was not listening to me, but he does things in different ways.

Unfortunately there is a caucous of truly satanic people in this World, they are very clever and usually frequent high office.

Some are seen as pillars of communities so nobody thinks they could harm anybody.

Perps are not the dirty old man that we think the picture holds but those who take away the greatest treasures of children.

How can they walk down the street as if they did not do these things, I dont know.
Every time I walk through my city, I am conscious that I may be walking past the very scum that I faced then.

This same scum cause the very social problems we see today.
They treat the World like their football, but it is not their world but that of God.

Our lives are that of eternity, of what we had in innocence, we need to tell ourselves that.
Those who live in luxury whilst watching others starve or rape countries of their wealth are one of the keys to the horrors we see today.

When Hitler started WW2, there was a massive electric light storm across the skies which astronomers describe as unique.

Was this God fighting Satan, I dont know.
Was it the minds of masses of people focusing their good minds against evil?

I dont know but I think the power of prayer and spirituality is a key to keeping our minds safe.

God will return to save his kingdom or will seek closure of this World, he will save the good and damn the evil,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#78220 - 02/02/06 09:04 PM Re: Why?
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
In my opinion, aside from life, the greatest gift God gave us was the gift to choose. Freedom to choose, freedom of choice. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

Top
#78221 - 02/11/06 04:54 AM Re: Why?
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
John,

I do not like how I got here, but I like where I am. I just emailed mom and told her that if I could change anything my past, I would not because I like where God has brought me. If my past were to be changed, where would I be? No thanks, I'll stay here, and move on from here.

I too am looking forward to the day when this hell hole of a world is finished and all Gods children are sitting on his lap.

Love ya,

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

Top
#78222 - 02/11/06 10:55 AM Re: Why?
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
I too asked God one day, WHY?, to that He just answered,"Why not? ....
...Why should you be spared of your life lessons, you are here to learn on this earth school, so why run away from life learnings.

This pain that you feel is only there to make sure, you learn all that you have to from your life experiences.

And the day you have learnt it all, you will feel this pain no more, as you wouldn't need to anymore."

That's when God smiled and walked away, and I thanked him for my first life lesson, Gratitude.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#78223 - 02/12/06 09:44 AM Re: Why?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Darrel raises a really important point:

Quote:
I just emailed mom and told her that if I could change anything my past, I would not because I like where God has brought me. If my past were to be changed, where would I be?
If we had never been abused, that doesn't mean that other bad things would not have happened. We can't let our abuse history define us guys!

I have to admit that while I would not wish abuse on anyone ever, as a result of dealing with this I am a far better person, much more caring and compassionate, than I think I would have been otherwise. I know I still have a lot of work to do, but I will do it and more forward even more.

I don't like some of my feelings about myself sometimes, but yes, I love me just as I am.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78224 - 03/23/06 07:22 AM Re: Why?
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Just found an old issue of Caroline Myss newsletter written during the post Tsunami New year of 2005.

If you see Tsunami as a personal disaster, then this would help you give a impersonal perspective so esential in healing, to be in the world, yet not of it....

WHEN DISASTERS STRIKES

Global disasters like Tsunami require a much more introspective evaluation -- dare I say, a symbolic one, noting that this event occurred the day after Christmas in a year of great turmoil on the earth. So, what are we to make of such a monumental event? How do we interpret this? Is it a random act of nature? Are any acts of nature random? Perhaps – but perhaps not. Is there order in chaos and chaos hidden in order waiting to rise? I would have to say that chaos is as planned a force as are incidents of obvious Divine intervention. We may not understand it as easily, but I cannot imagine that any events take the Universe by surprise. What we declare as chaotic comes from a perspective that requires order to be maintained for the sake of safety, control, and a logical system of justice. We often say that the innocent among us do not deserve pain or suffering, either in massive numbers or as individuals. Yet the word “deserve” is one we could do without in our vocabulary, and the same can be said about the word “blame.”
Without a doubt this tsunami is a tragedy of untold, immeasurable proportions. No one can possibly calculate the grief that comes from losing family members or an entire home and all of one’s belongings, much less one’s means of income. I heard one reporter compare the destruction this tsunami caused to that which would be created by X number of bombs dropped in a country. It occurred to me while listening to this reporter that perhaps the Divine had in mind a plan of greater cosmic design, even within the midst of this natural disaster.
Let me preface what I am about to say by noting that cosmic perspectives, like the one I plan to introduce on this tsunami, are impersonal, meaning that they are transcendent of the immediate “here and now” framework through which we ordinarily view events. Cosmic or transcendent perspectives, however, are NOT without compassion. They are perspectives that maintain a higher order of thinking and perception, such as viewing an event as transcendent of the ordinary rule of what seems fair or unfair. The concepts of innocence and guilt do not compute within the domain of the cosmic, and it takes a stretch of the mind, soul, and heart to comprehend that. One’s instinctual reaction is to assume the position of the personal when looking into the face of mass destruction. But that heartfelt emotional response may not always allow a person to perceive the threads of cosmic wisdom contained within the timing or design of events.
The challenge of grasping the power of the impersonal perspective is that it “appears” to be unfeeling, cold, or even harsh. Therein lies the illusion: that is the last thing a cosmic perspective is. Instead, the impersonal position is a lens rich with cosmic wisdom as opposed to emotional reaction. It took me a while to understand this when I was first exposed to the teachings of Buddhism, which emphasize how the spirit is seduced by the illusions of worldly power and that one’s spiritual path is in part made up of the challenge of breaking the bonds of power that earthly illusions have over our spirits. I recall a comment that the Dalai Lama made, for example, when asked about the Chinese invasion of Tibet and the massive slaughter of the innocent people of his beloved land. One would think that he would be devastated by the brutal murder of well over a million of his people. And perhaps he is devastated, but he transcends the anger and passionate need for vengeance that always emerges from the belief that someone was unfairly victimized. The Dalai Lama said, “Compassion is my response to my people and to the Chinese.” He chooses compassion rather than rage, refusing to hate the Chinese for the invasion of his homeland or the murder of his people. For many, this response of compassion could seem weak and powerless. Who can see the immediate consequences of compassion, especially when measured against the satisfaction of a bullet? A bullet satisfies the ego’s need for immediate physical action, whereas if one’s spirit were enlightened and truly understood the Divine paradox that ours is an intimate Universe governed by impersonal laws and cycles of life, then a reply of compassion is the only answer that holds any power. For to awaken to the nature of consciousness is to awaken to the truth that the only domain of true power is that force which is pure light, and thus invisible, eternal, transcendent, and impersonal -- like the invisible power of an act of love or forgiveness.
But oh, the struggle. It is so difficult to transcend the need for an explanation of why things happen as they do or to have logical reasons for why people who don’t “deserve” to be hurt or injured are hurt or injured. We so want life to be fair and just – but it isn’t, and it never has been and never will be. Thus, at some point along the line, the events in our own lives that strike us as unfair or undeserved also hold the potential of drawing us into the wisdom of a higher paradigm of truth, in which we can choose to trust that no one event in our life exists on its own. All of the events and all of our relationships are interconnected, part of a grand weave. Something that happens today that makes no sense may be laying the groundwork for something that will happen five months or five years from now, and not until then will we understand or appreciate why that event had to occur. Whether it’s a death or a birth, a marriage or a divorce, a job loss or a promotion makes no difference. From a cosmic perspective, these are nothing more than opposite sides of the same coin, and are neither good nor bad. They are simply the ingredients of life, which is made up of opportunities and losses, pain and pleasure, happiness and sadness. From a cosmic perspective, this is the Moebius strip of yin and yang, the continual movement of the poles, of night and day.
That loss happens because of natural disasters in greater or lesser numbers does not change the fact that death and birth is the very nature of life. Yet, what is the goal of striving for consciousness if not to achieve an understanding of life at the cosmic-spiritual level of purpose? At this level we shed the illusion that events are chaotic, cruel, unfair, or brutal, and instead blend into a far greater pattern of human evolution where standards of fairness, innocence, and victim consciousness disintegrate through the light of ascension to a higher order of meaning and purpose. These are the cosmic, impersonal truths that a spiritual master embodies.
I am sure that many of you have had experiences in which you have been able to grasp the higher meaning of a tragedy in someone’s life, precisely because it did not occur to you, which gave you the advantage of an impersonal perspective. For example, anyone who has raised a child has encountered exactly such a situation -- a crisis that your child thinks is the end of the world, because her boyfriend hasn’t called or because he did poorly on an exam. As a parent who has already been through those experiences, you have the advantage of experience and wisdom. You know for a fact it’s not the end of the world, but trying to get your child to understand that during their crisis is nearly impossible. For that child, in that moment, your perspective can seem heartless. Your wisdom is all but wasted on them until the crisis passes and emotions settle or heal. Then, once the healing force of time and distance is gained, you can reintroduce the same bit of wisdom with a better chance that your child will be able to understand and appreciate it.
The essential ingredient in allowing understanding to take place is that the overwhelming waves of personal emotion have subsided. You have all had the experience of watching a friend become romantically involved with someone whom you could clearly see was wrong for that person. You had the advantage of an impersonal, wise perspective, whereas your friend was under a romantic spell -- and nothing you say can break a romantic spell. The clarity you had is a very real example of a cosmic perspective as opposed to a personal one.
Indeed, an impersonal or cosmic perspective can often feel threatening to people, precisely because it appears to lack the warmth of personal emotion. What cosmic understanding actually lacks is not emotional animation as such, however, but the interference of toxic emotion, which can include self-pity, self-righteousness, or the inability to detach from the moment and see the greater purpose hidden within the chaos and pain of an event or relationship. We so often work against gaining a higher understanding, consciously choosing not to see from a higher perspective, because we do not want to have to act in alignment to the dictates of higher understandings. For example, we might deliberately yell all the louder when someone is trying to explain his or her position precisely because we don’t WANT to understand that position. We want instead to be understood on our terms. And because we know that if we give that person a chance to explain things, we can no longer remain righteously angry (as understanding tends to heal anger), we have to scream all the louder.
I hope that I’ve made the point by now that cosmic perspectives offer us a lens of wisdom through which we can view even the most horrible situations, including natural disasters. With that in mind, consider that prior to the tsunami, as a global community we were building up a warehouse of negative energy. The rage created by wars and all the pain that goes with the injustice of innocent deaths brought about through bombs and missile attacks (after all, missiles don’t kill only “insurgents”), along with all the negative energy that has been building in our global community through numerous other political crises may have ultimately created this same nightmare of a disaster through manmade means. The deaths and destruction to the homes of hundreds of thousands of people could have been brought about by human beings and their war games, which would have been a real tragedy. Nature is nature. At least in this case, the situation is a largely blameless one; who can hate nature for an earthquake? That would be preposterous. Although many thousands have lost their lives, and thousands more may lose their lives from the aftermath, at least no nation is to blame, and for that we can all be grateful. The nations most affected are now budgeting money for a tsunami warning system to prevent future tragedies. We can also be grateful that this event has drawn the entire world together, proving that we can work as a global village when we have to. Under blameless conditions of tragedy, we can unite and come to the aid of fellow humans who are suffering, not as the result of political crisis or war, but because of a random act of nature that could have happened anywhere.
A far greater tragedy would befall humanity if we did not respond to those in need. That would in fact be more than a tragedy; it would be a crime against humanity of the worst kind. But in keeping with the deeper content of the human spirit, invisible and visible acts of power abound when tragedy strikes. Although painful memories will remain long after the towns and villages of these people are rebuilt, so will memories of the kindness of those who have come to their aid. Herein lies the human paradox: a creature capable of endless compassion can also sow boundless destruction and hatred. Who can figure us out? Given a tragedy, we jump to the aid of others. Both sides of a bloody, ruthless civil war in Sri Lanka, for instance, have had to suspend hostilities to work together to survive. This is the illuminated side of humanity at its best.
Now, just in case anyone thinks that I am saying it is a good thing that all these innocent people died in some sort of substitution sacrifice to prevent others in a war zone from dying – NO, I am NOT saying that. But I am saying that global events – even natural ones – are created through a complex of energies. And included in that mixture of energies are the psychic forces generated by the collective consciousness of the global soul of humanity. We are a part of the earth and its consciousness. The energy we generate as individuals and as a collective body filters into the earth as surely as the cream you put on your skin filters into the organs of your body. The earth does not exist separate and apart from our psychic energy. How could that be? The energy of nature influences our psychic field as surely as we influence the health of Mother Nature. As a Soul Being with her own rhythm and her own schedule of events that will unfold as they are meant to, although in some cosmic way, Mother Earth is involved in the evolution of the human species. Global warming is occurring and we have been continually tampering with the balance of nature in an ever-increasing momentum. That may well be creating a psychic stress for Mother Earth that we have no way of measuring; but Mother Earth could be feeling the pain of the human condition as much as humanity is – including the pain generated by a build-up of anger and rage in our collective spirit.

On December 26th, a tsunami struck in Indonesia, but an earthquake or a volcano or tornadoes could have struck in any country – and indeed, they all will at some time. Mother Earth doesn’t discriminate. She isn’t a political being. She will bring other storms, floods, fires, and hurricanes to other lands and other people continually, as she always has. And people will die as a result of acts of Mother Nature. Some of these events, like this tsunami, may be enormous in proportion to others. But let’s look at the good that is coming from this crisis. What other event could possibly have drawn the world together and caused humanity to act as a global community, transcending political differences? What other force could possibly cause so much destruction yet leave no traces of hatred in its wake? While grief abounds and will for years to come, so does compassion. The bonds of care, gratitude, friendship, and new beginnings that will be formed as a result of pulling together to overcome disaster may have consequences on behalf of peace that will save who knows how many lives in years to come.
>From another perspective, think about the long-term consequences to the global psyche of this tsunami. The earthquake that caused this wave was so enormous that (and I’m not sure I’m going to phrase this properly) it knocked the earth off its axis slightly and altered time by a fraction of a second. Those two facts of the physical realm have to have an impact on the physical plane, but, considering that we’ve never encountered this before, who knows what it will be? And how will a slight shift in the orbital field and our relationship to time affect us? Because it will – how can it not?
My mind and imagination wander all over the place as I think about this – from the mundane to the unbelievable. I wonder if somehow this shift in calculations at the microcosmic level – like cosmic homeopathy – will have an impact on the collective consciousness in terms of global unity. Maybe this tsunami was a means through which a template of unity was downloaded into our psyches. Or will this shift us in some other way? But that topic – “THE IMPACT OF GLOBAL EVENTS ON YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL” – is the subject of my January SALON. I can’t imagine a better time than now to consider how you may be affected in subtle ways by global events.

I do believe more deeply as each year passes that the pursuit of one’s interior life is an essential anchor of health and personal well being. I cannot imagine how a person can manage a day of life without an inner compass and a perspective rich in mystical and archetypal insights.
God bless all of you and let us as a “Web family” offer our prayers for the healing and care of those who have endured the tsunami and must now rebuild their lives.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

Top
#78225 - 03/26/06 05:02 AM Re: Why?
applefish Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
I like the original message of returning to love. Abuse victims often have a wedge driven between them and the rest of the world. They can be thrown into a loveless world of isolation that puts them in a place of asking these questions. People that are content for the most part and "happy" have no need to ask if there is a God or any real spiritual inquiries. But alone and in pain the abuse victim cries out why? I have done this time and time again. Turned it over in my head over and over. But I think it's about a return to love. What is love? What is God? As abuse victims we are in a unique postition to really answer these questions and go to the ends of the earth to solve this mystery, literally and figurativly. But that's easier said then done and sometimes it feels like the sixty four thousand dollar question. I feel all this rage in front of my heart disalowing me to connect with other people, isolating me even further. Love/God/Rage/Pain. It's a painfully slow process. I beleive in God but I have to say I'm pretty damn angry at him because he hasn't made it easy for me in the least.

apl


Top
#78226 - 03/26/06 09:34 AM Re: Why?
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but maybe a second note would not be out of order. There's a really good book on this subject by Harold Kushner called When Bad Things Happen to Good People. It was published 25 years ago and has sold millions of copies.

Kushner, an eminent rabbi and Jewish intellectual, wrote this after the death of his son and in it tries to deal with the question of how senseless suffering can exist in a world created and nurtured by a good and loving God.

Anyone would benefit from reading this wonderful book. I first read it during the Lebanese Civil War, which claimed the lives of about half of the teenaged boys (lured into local militias) in my neighborhood in Beirut between 1975 and 1977. It helped me a lot then, and it has helped me again as I reread it as a survivor.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top


Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.