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#78078 - 12/06/05 04:03 PM disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I have had a few startling episodes here onsite that I will call spiritual for lack of a better word. One is that in recent months I have come to know several guys here a lot better and we have shared a lot about outselves with each other. Almost all of these guys, who really are brothers now to me, turn out to have a strong spiritual and religious dimension to their lives. The other is that the other day I received an email from one of my friends here stating that he sees a rich spiritual dimension to my posts.

What is startling about both of these things is that I don't regard myself as a spiritual person at all. I have this deep feeling that I am, as the title here says it, "disconnected" from God.

It's not that I have problems with religion - I don't. I rather think of myself as a sincerely religious person, and I am interested in how religion deals with the problems of the world. And every time the topic of religion comes up with one of my friends here, one part of me thinks, "That's really cool he has that conviction and feels that way." But what I really mean, but don't want to say, is this: "I wish I had that."

But I don't. I feel like I am in this strange position of "feeling" all kinds of spiritual emotions, but unable to relate any further. I sometimes feel a need to pray, but don't do it because I have nothing to say and don't think I will be heard. I feel small and ashamed if I am in a church, like "What? YOU? Here?"

It has just occurred to me recently, again from emails back and forth with a good friend here, that this may have something to do with what happened when I was a boy. My abuser was a leader in my Scout troop, but he was also an elder in our church. I saw him at church services and events, and I remember him serving communion and sitting on the committee that talked to kids before their confirmation - I could never figure out how this could happen. Was I the only one who saw the monster in the room? Or was he right and everything we were doing was okay? I didn't want to think about it because he said if I told then he would get the Session to vote and send me to hell when I died. I would get so scared and tremble from trying to get myself to think about something else.

But I don't get any feedback from Little Larry about this, even though these days LL usually does NOT hesitate to let me know how he feels.

So it's big old me I guess, sitting here typing, and in fact wondering what does it matter. Actually, that's not true. I do feel it matters, but that's as far as it goes.

Like I said, disconnected.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78079 - 12/06/05 07:24 PM Re: disconnected from God
AuthenticMe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 287
Larry,

It makes alot of sense that you would feel disconnected from God, given the position of your abuser. It's amazing the connections our minds make an DON'T make when it comes to the abuse.

I, too, see alot of spirituality in your posts, in that you express a belief in something greater than that which can be measured by the senses. There is a TRUTH to your words that transcends the human condition.

You don't have to believe in God to be spiritual. Atheists are some of the most spiritual people in the world: many believe and live by the idea that all things are connected, and honor that connection.

The beauty is that, despite what we think, we ARE connected. Connected to each other, to the planet, to nature, to all living beings.

Spirituality isn't about convictions, it's about knowing that we don't know.

_________________________
I am a Man.

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#78080 - 12/07/05 02:31 AM Re: disconnected from God
Born to Resist Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Southern California, USA
Larry,

To me spirituality is being connected to your own spirit. To nurture your spirit and draw strength from it. In nurturing my spirit, I have connected with that ... with those ... that my spirit has guided me to. While it can manifest itself in practicing a particular religion it by no means must follow a particular religion ... so one does not necessarily need to believe in a particular greater being(s)

In a sense we have let ourselves be guided to this board ... we reach out and connect ... give/draw strength ... give/draw nurturance ... I know my spirit is better for having been here ... and yes Larry, your spirit as others on this board has given me many gifts

Courage-Wisdom-Spirituality


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#78081 - 12/07/05 02:44 AM Re: disconnected from God
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Larry,

I agree with AM, it's no wonder you feel dissconnected from God. It's those "old tapes" you've talked about so often. The ones your abuser recorded into your mind. Because of his position he represented "religion" to Little Larry.

Not only that but he also trained you to believe that your Father had no use for you, in fact did not love you. Guess what? An important element of where children get their concept of what God is all about is their relationship with their parents, especially the father.

So in essence your perp not only stole your innocense, he also greatly damaged your ability to relate to a God who loves his children no matter what.

You are not alone in that either. Your post here could have been written by me, and not all that long ago. I grew up with the idea that I was a "bad boy". Got it from my parents. I couldn't do anything, it seemed to me, but that I got in trouble for it. This resulted in a strained relationship with the parents. There went my concept of how God relates to me right out the window.

I struggled with that for a long time, and I MEAN struggled. It finally dawned on me that God loved me. Period. End of discussion. It did not depend on my "being a good boy". He loved me.

Things got a lot easier after that.

I do not want to sound condecending here. It is sooo not my intention. I've got enough problem of my own hanging around here somewhere to write a book about, lest anyone think I've got it all figured out.

Lots of Love,

John

PS - One last thing. Go easy on yourself, my friend. Be honest with you about stuff. Everything else will fall into place when it is supposed to.

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78082 - 12/08/05 03:41 AM Re: disconnected from God
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Larry,

You say that you feel disconnected form god. Pardon me for saying so, but that is very good news. Let me explain.

The elder of the church, the one who represented god and served communion was the perp who did so much damage to you that you will never fully recover in this lifetime.

You have already figured out that he was lying when he said that your dad didn’t love you. Now consider this. The perp’s whole life was a lie! The god he represented is a lie and does not exist.

I believe it is the third of the Ten Commandments that says, “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.” In my opinion, this means much more than just not saying things like “god damn it.” The perp claimed to be a Christian, a follower of Christ. His life was a lie; he misrepresented Christ, therefore he took the name of the Lord in vain.

Little Larry believed this lie about god just like he believed the lie about his father. How can Big Larry feel connected to such a god who is no god at all, but a lie?

Larry, let me tell you about the God I know. Jesus said that it would be better for a millstone to be tied around someone’s neck and for them to be thrown in the sea than for them to hurt a child. Jesus also said, “Let the little children come to me because the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to them.”

The God I know is bigger than the lie. His heart is full of compassion and love. He sent his Son, Jesus, to this hell hole of a world to live and be abused so that He could rescue Little Larry and all the rest of us. And if you think about it, This God is nothing like the god you learned about from the perp. He is real, He loves you Larry, and longs to hold you in His arms.

Love you

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78083 - 12/08/05 04:58 AM Re: disconnected from God
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Hi Larry,

I read this post last night and have been thinking on it off and on today. I can't pretend to tell you why you feel disconnected from God, only you can really answer that. To me, our connection with God, higher power, spirituality, whatever you want to call it, is something so internal to who we are that it really defies easy understanding.

Several things you wrote struck me and I'd like to comment on each one an relate from my own personal experience:

Quote:
But what I really mean, but don't want to say, is this: "I wish I had that."
There's nothing wrong with saying that. It's actually at the very crux of my own experience, and I'm sure it's the same for many others. When I was a little boy, we went to church (Church of Christ denomination) until I was about 6 and then we just stopped going. Period. I don't know why, but we did. So I really had no religious background growing up, all I remembered from those early years of Sunday School was that God made everything happen. He made it rain, He made trees, etc. So I recall thinking that He must have made me a bad boy so that my father would hit me. Warped, I know, but that's the way a 6-year-old mind works. And given all the later crap that came along, I had every reason to think God was out to get me. Hell, I had reason to doubt His very existence.

Fast forward to age 23. I was divorced from my first wife at age 21, so was out on my own. I lived in a small duplex across the street from the large Baptist church in town. One Sunday morning I decided to go over there. So I did. Even filled out a visitor's card. And then something odd happened. On Tuesday night, two young men from the church's Singles department came to my house. They were part of the regular visitation crew that went out every Tuesday night. But what really struck me was that they were interested in ME. I felt comfortable talking to them. And to use your phrase, I saw something in them and thought to myself "I wish I had that." So I started going to church more and more and eventually joined after realizing that this was what was missing in my own life. I needed that relationship, to feel like I had been saved. And I really did (and still do) feel saved.

Quote:
I sometimes feel a need to pray, but don't do it because I have nothing to say and don't think I will be heard.
Prayer is a very intimate thing, in my opinion. I pray in different ways. Most times it's the last thing I do each day as I'm lying in bed about to go to sleep. It's usually a conversation with God in my head, but many times it's not. Sometimes I pray by just being still and feeling "connected" to God. I don't think about anything word-wise, but just try to feel God's presence in a good way. About the only way I can describe it is when I'm say lying in bed with my wife and we're holding each other, and neither one of us has to say a word. We both know what the other is thinking, and that's enough. It's the deepest form of intimacy, where you feel totally loved, safe, and secure.

Quote:
I feel small and ashamed if I am in a church, like "What? YOU? Here?"
I've struggled with that as well, and still do to a certain extent. Our church is the largest Baptist one in town, so the well-to-do folks go here. Yeah, there's snobbery, but I can look past that. I don't go to church for a country club, I go for a sense of fellowship with like-minded people. And there are many good people there; but there are bad ones as well. None of us on this earth are perfect, and Jesus himself said he didn't come to save the righteous.

Larry, I hope you can get a sense of connectedness with this, because I know in my own case it is what has kept me sane. At the time when I was 23, I was drifting, aimless, heavy into drink. It changed my life significantly, and continues to do so today. You don't have to go to church, temple, mosque, or any other type of alter to get religion. I believe every person has it already in them. They just have to tap into it and let it be. For me, Christianity did that. For others, maybe it's being Jewish or Moslem. It's Faith that makes the difference, believing in that something bigger than yourself.

_________________________
Eddie

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#78084 - 12/09/05 06:01 AM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I want to thank everyone who posted here. You have all helped me a lot, as I knew you would. What I did not expect was that the whole thing sent me into a serious whirlwind - but not in any kind of negative way. I just felt very confused, and unlike before, now Little Larry had a LOT to say and get off his/our mind.

I think this too is part of me bursting through the barrier of disclosing to my parents and wondering what next.

I suddenly have this idea that God may have some use for me after all. He is a God who has nothing to do with anything my abuser represented, that's for sure. Why did I not see this? Right now I don't care. It's such a great feeling.

I have this idea that sometime on down the road I will be happy and free in ways I never thought possible.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78085 - 12/09/05 06:15 AM Re: disconnected from God
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Larry,

I am so excited for you, this is so cool. Thanks for letting us be part of it.

Love you Bro

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78086 - 12/09/05 09:23 AM Re: disconnected from God
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
\:\) \:\) \:\) \:\)

[needed more smileys]

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78087 - 12/13/05 05:49 PM Re: disconnected from God
The Seeker Offline
Member

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Ohio, USA
Larry,

You have introduced some interesting points. I wanted to add my perspective. In youth, I went to church...the only one in my family. I prayed that God would make all the bad things stop, which they did after I had given up on God. I was not happy with God and doubted a God existed. The Church teaches that God is all powerful and God will protect you. Yet, bad things happen all over the world everyday. So, it is hard to reconcile those two ideas. Human suffering is a reality of life. Nobody escapes it. Bad things happen. That was hard to accept.

BUT, I survived, and I am still here. I like to think God did that part, and for some reason that I may understand before I die. I don't know how God works, looks, or thinks. My brain, or concept of reality, is simply too small to comprehend this I believe. Yet, I still feel something greater than me is out there watching, and helping. Maybe not in ways I understand, but helping all the same. I don't try to understand it as I don't think I will, and I put the faith I have in that idea. I developed that concept after watching my daughter be born. It just seemed too perfect to be random chance and science, especially understanding how complex the human body really is and how little scientist know about it. The entire ecosystem of the Earth is the same thing. How does this planet sustain life, yet others do not? At least the ones we can study and see.

I don't want to suffer, but I think I am a better person afterward. That is hard to accept too. Maybe this is simplistic, but it seems to work.

So, I try to be a good person and ease the pain and suffering of others, and in doing so - I ease my own pain. Some churchs are good for this line of thinking, although I don't attend any. I also don't pray, since I figure God knows my thoughts and my heart without my intention to reveal them.

Maybe this will help, and maybe not. But, I hope that it does.

_________________________
The answers are in me.

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#78088 - 12/13/05 07:38 PM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Darrel, John and John,

Thanks again for all your support and insights. I still don't understand why I feel so disconnected, but yes John, your comments are very thought-provoking and it helps a lot.

I don't feel that I am challenging anything; it's just a sense of drifting, of being cut loose. At least now it's something I want to look at and remedy. I do feel I am missing something that I want and something that will benefit me in big ways.

I think I keep comparing how I feel now to how things were for me before I disclosed to my parents. That was such a huge issue for me that I could focus on it - now it's past and I have moved on. But as I said in another thread, moved on to what. Maybe I am regrouping.

It's such a strange feeling, and maybe I fret about it because I still have a lot of self-confidence issues. Maybe a better term is self-awareness issues. I have been throwing away a lot of "junk" and discovering a "me" that I haven't seen for many years. I guess I don't yet understand what is emerging and how that relates to me as a spiritual person.

This is nonsense I suspect, but here it comes anyway.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78089 - 12/15/05 02:49 AM Re: disconnected from God
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Larry,

It's not nonsense if you felt you needed to say it. \:\) Never is. Or perhaps I should add that I'll let you know when it is? \:D Nah, strike that.

Lots of love,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78090 - 12/15/05 04:10 AM Re: disconnected from God
Derdlecar Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1314
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
Larry,

I agree with John, it is not nonsense, I'm not completely sure I understand it all, but it is not nonsense. It is what is on your heart and needs to be expressed. Drifting is ok, because sooner or later you will find what you are looking for. So my advice is simple, just keep your eyes open and don't throw anything out 'till you know what it is.

love you,

Darrel

_________________________
If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

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#78091 - 12/16/05 12:55 PM Re: disconnected from God
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Spirit, when we connect with it, we become spiritual, when we loose our connection, we feel disconnected with everything, including our emotions.

That is why the first step in healing is feeling.

When we feel we experience life, and when we experience life we learn. And when we learn, we also learn that life's biggest lesson is learning to love.

So when we can feel love, we can feel God in our spirit, because God is our spirit.

That for me is 'self' awareness, because when you know your self as a wave in the Ocean, you no longer feel disconnected.

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#78092 - 12/16/05 02:28 PM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John, Darrel and MS,

Thanks for your further comments here. It really does give me a lot to think about, and especially over the holidays. I hope I can put your thoughts and ideas to some positive use; at the moment I still feel that I am on the threshhold of numerous things, but I just don't see what they are yet.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

Top
#78093 - 12/17/05 02:35 AM Re: disconnected from God
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
I'll be thinking good thoughts for you then, Larry.

Wishing you good things,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78094 - 12/17/05 02:52 AM Re: disconnected from God
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Quote:

I don't feel that I am challenging anything; it's just a sense of drifting, of being cut loose. At least now it's something I want to look at and remedy. I do feel I am missing something that I want and something that will benefit me in big ways.
That's pretty exciting, Larry. Very exciting. I'm thinking good thoughts for you, man.

_________________________
Eddie

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#78095 - 12/17/05 07:03 PM Re: disconnected from God
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Larry,

it is easy to find yourself disconnected from god, but I suppose that I found myself back with him, and believing in him.

If anyone is going to Hell, then it is the bastard who kept you silent, not you.

It is easy to feel so odd at church, and you never find me there so much, why? Because unconsciously I will find myself sussing out the priest, and his actions towards kids.

I used to go to church about 10 times a week when I was hurting, and begging god to help me through it all, and even if I did not think he listened, then he must have given me much guidance.

People blame religion on everything bad in the world, they call muslims beasts because some muslims cause terror to the world, but so called christians have done a whole raft of worse things in the world today.

Does this make me as a christian fall into the category also, or you. NO.

There are many kids crying in silence today in their little worlds of no escape, and it is for them we must think of, that they may find away through, and a load sadly do not.

My christmas is always spiritual, and I celebrate it the way it should be, and not stuffing myself silly nor overindulging in drink etc.

More food gets wasted in the west over christmas than is eaten, when half of the world is starving.

God helps me to see the beauty that he has created, whether it is a group of boys playing ball and smiling away, to the seasons or plants, the sea etc.

You may feel disconnected, but he is not from you,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78096 - 12/18/05 10:29 PM Re: disconnected from God
george of kent Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 305
Loc: delaware
For what it's worth, let me state that from the content of his postings, I know Larry to be a deeply spiritual man -- full of caring wisdom and support for his brothers. Questions of faith (or lack thereof) can be beside the point sometimes, I believe. It is in deeds that a spiritual life is expressed, not just in words and posturing. God (however you understand him/her/it) must love Larry (Big and Little) very much. With the big respect and best wishes for the holiday season. Love, etc.,

_________________________
"We are only two and yet our howling can encircle the world's end.
Frightened, you are my only friend.
And frightened we are, every one.
Someone must take a stand -- Coward, take my coward's hand"
Arthur Laurents

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#78097 - 12/19/05 01:11 PM Re: disconnected from God
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
if youv'e been convinced that god doesn't exist ,how do you ever change that? i want to believe so bad but i find it hard to believe that god was aware of my abuse and did nothing ,sure i survived but sometimes it seems like that was not a good thing .during the time i was held captive and abused, every night while i lay in that closet i would pray to god ,to save me or just let me die ,i truly expected god to save me, i was 11 years old and to me god was this guy who lived in heaven ,who saw everything that happened in the world ,he could do anything ,but he didn't save me so i decided that either god didn't exist ,or i was so bad that he didn't care about me ,so i became angry at god and finally decided that god was just a fairy tale like santa claus every time i watch the news i have to say where is god? why don't he stop all the sick perverted things people do . sorry i don't think this post belongs here with posts about believing in god ,if god does exist why did he forget about me shadow

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78098 - 12/20/05 12:26 AM Re: disconnected from God
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

God must have wanted you to survive, otherwise he would not have saved you, or would he?

If God was so omnipotent, then he would deal with all of the abuse and carnage that goes on throughout the world, he would make those who had wealth think about the needy and help them.

God gave us each a powerful tool, called free will, and the ability to use it in a positive way and be a good citizen.

Sadly, this is not true, and the above statement asking why God was not there, is one which I shared and screamed at him for letting me go through this hell, but he got me through, and I hope and wish you do too, because you real deserve it.

PM me if you want, but you are a star in my mind,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78099 - 12/20/05 11:50 AM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Your post certainly does belong here and I am very glad you felt able to say what you did. You are getting into important ground I think. This kind of theme shows up on the DB off and on, but that just shows how central it is to our feelings and how we look at what happened to us.

I was 11 too, Adam. I wasn't kept in a closet, but I screamed into my pillow after every time and wondered where was God. I felt abandoned by God, who even allowed the abuser to molest me and then show up in church the next day to serve as an usher or deacon or collect the morning offering. He sat with his family in pious respectability and smiled over the pews at me. In Sunday School there was a huge picture of Jesus surrounded by children, and every time I saw that I felt more degraded and unlovable.

The feeling I have now, Adam, is what I call here a feeling of being "disconnected". Since I started the thread I have been struggling myself to figure out what that means.

It isn't a matter of disbelief. Perhaps that's what it was when I was your age and living an insane life dominated by drugs and alcohol. But now I think that to propose that the world is all a great "accident" is even more incredible than to propose that it must be the work of a creating God. This could of course go on into a thread of its own.

By "disconnected" I think I mean that I don't understand how I can or should react to the fact that a wise, benevolent and just God allowed me - and you - to suffer so terribly. How am I to relate to that fact? How can I incorporate it into my life?

I think that in a way I am doing that now, and I think that the rest of us are doing the same. We are here for our own recovery, of course. But I think we all somehow sense, or feel, that part of our recovery involves rediscovering and restoring a spiritual dimension to ourselves that was especially brutalized and ravaged by abuse. By spiritual I do not mean anything necessarily religious, though for me that is an important aspect of it.

What I have in mind is regaining an ability truly to love, beginning with ourselves. An ability to recognize and feel the suffering of ourselves and others, so as better to respond in our own case and to offer support where our brothers are concerned. An ability to see the tremendous good in ourselves and in the world at large, since for the rest of our lives it is in the world that we will have to seek fulfillment and joy for ourselves and those we care about. An ability to appreciate our own importance and worth while realizing how small we all are in the cosmic sceme of things. And an ability to appreciate that our happiness will come as much from what we can give as what we can gain.

God for me is the means to connect to all that, and at the moment I do not see the way forward. But I do know the way is there, so I search. I feel that you are doing the same.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78100 - 12/27/05 11:12 AM Re: disconnected from God
dibargib Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 14
Just to interject my own thoughts and situation and things related to god...

My parents stopped taking me to church (Roman catholic) about the time they started splitting up - I guess I was about 13 or so. That was fine - I couldn't stand church. For me God was never a concept that made a whole heck of a lot of sense. I went, and I sat through the Sunday schools, and the communion, and so on, but I never really think I believed in God-as-reality. I'm not really sure why - I remember myself thinking that so many awful things happen in the world, so how can there be a God? How can he let these things happen? I think another thing that really got to me was my dad's reaction when my parents were breaking up. We hadn't gone in a few months, and he decided we were GOING to GO, because that would MEAN we were a FAMILY. And I don't know if I thought this at the time or if I'm thinking it looking back, but it seemed(s) to me that church was just this place for all those isolated little suburban units to come together and feel like they're a community, like they're whole, and like everythings "ok." [oh, and the whole creation and Noah's Ark thing really threw me for a loop. I was waay too sciencey for that .]

Anyway, I didn't go to church, and I remember one night when I was about 15 I loudly 'renounced' God. By that point I think I had really felt that any almighty power that might exist had totally and utterly abandoned me. I pretty much kept that until college, although I invented some interesting religions of my own at various points...

So, fast forward to college. The guys that lived across the hall from me my freshman year were fairly devout presbyterians. But they didn't fit my regular stereotype of people that I knew who were bible-goers. They were intelligent, on-edge, free thinking people. Most of the people like that whom I had met previously had been fairly unreligious or agnostic. But for these guys, God was something that gave them so much hope, gave their lives meaning. It was based on their faith in God...

...and I thought, "I want that... why can't I have that?"

And I tried. For 6 months I tried and tried. I went to their meetings (and met some really nice people who WERE a lot like the other Christians I had met before, rather innocent, insulated, and charmingly bigoted), I read their Book, I really tried to connect. I prayed. I prayed my heart out. I really thought... maybe, just maybe, I can believe - maybe this is all real, and not just something people make up to make themselves feel better about their desolate mortality. And maybe I can have faith in that.

And then... and it's hard to explain... It all fell apart. The hurting, which had gone on sabbatical for a few months, came back in force. I fell in this girl who I thought was God-gifted to me... and it was all wrong. And the people whom I had met and the God in whom I had come to believe couldn't help me.

And I rejected it again. I threw out the bibles, I put away the crucifix, I withdrew from the groups, and significantly cut down the contact with the people I had met. It all felt so damned false, so wrong, like I had been acting the whole time, like I had put on this face to the world, and to myself, that yes, I can be one of you, I can believe, and it can bring me to a better place. It can help me in all the ways it helps you. See? Right?

A little under a year later I started seeing my T. And she helped me infinitely more than God did. And I know that I was expecting things that maybe weren't fair to expect - God doesn't promise to improve our lives on earth, other than with the hope for a future of blissful eternity... But that experience made me furious with the idea of 'god', rather than just passively indifferent. I could barely keep from scowling while my dad said 'grace' at dinner yesterday. Because in my mind, I was abandoned, once again, by God. Whether he is real, or just a concept, he, who seems to grant so much fucking comfort to so many fucking people, left me in the lurch, and feels so infinitely unaccessible. The only way that I've found that has even started me in the direction of healing (and I only really truly started to seriously entertain the possibility of having been abused about a week ago - I've meticulously avoided bringing it up with my T) has been to do so myself. God couldn't help me, yet I could... what does that say about God?

Sorry, I'm finding myself getting angry right now, and I know that this post has mainly been dominated by people who have found their way into belief. It was actually Shadow's post that gave me the courage to post myself.

Anyway, in sum, if God would punish to eternal torment a person who has gone through so much already, I don't think I'd really want to join his party anyway.

-John

_________________________
---
"...but first you must be the change you want to see in the world." -Gandhi

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#78101 - 12/27/05 12:00 PM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

I'm glad both you and Adam contributed to the thread. It's not a real discussion if there is a kind of implicit censorship going on. I relate to the topic with an attitude of searching, Adam with challenging, and you with anger. We are all different people and we all need to express what is on our minds.

I see your signature line is "JB". I guess those are your initials, but that reminds me of Archibald MacLeish's book "J.B." If you haven't read this book, I think you would like it. It's a modern takeoff on the Book of Job and has a lot to do with anger in the face of unjust suffering. The attitude of J.B., the hero, is a lot like yours.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78102 - 12/31/05 11:38 PM Re: disconnected from God
applefish Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Dear Larry,
new MS member, old male survivor. I totally relate to what your saying. I too consider myself a spiritual person but feel very much disconected from God. Years ago I trusted in throwing myself into the fray although emotionally I was too scared to really know what was the correct direction to take. So I tried to trust "my inner voice", and felt I got burned. Now I'm having a hard time getting back to that trust and feeling very disconected. I suppose that is what sexual abuse does it disconnects you from the world. Are we not all trying to get back to love and trust and ultimately faith? Does this not sound like God? The issue that I struggle with is trust and intamacy, yet I do have an inner voice that keeps leading me back to spirituality. But in the end what does it all mean. Getting back to "normal" seems at times entirelly esoteric.
Love Jeff


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#78103 - 01/02/06 08:44 AM Re: disconnected from God
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
Hey guys,



Edited by Dewey (11/08/10 12:18 AM)

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