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#78098 - 12/20/05 12:26 AM Re: disconnected from God
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Adam,

God must have wanted you to survive, otherwise he would not have saved you, or would he?

If God was so omnipotent, then he would deal with all of the abuse and carnage that goes on throughout the world, he would make those who had wealth think about the needy and help them.

God gave us each a powerful tool, called free will, and the ability to use it in a positive way and be a good citizen.

Sadly, this is not true, and the above statement asking why God was not there, is one which I shared and screamed at him for letting me go through this hell, but he got me through, and I hope and wish you do too, because you real deserve it.

PM me if you want, but you are a star in my mind,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#78099 - 12/20/05 11:50 AM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Adam,

Your post certainly does belong here and I am very glad you felt able to say what you did. You are getting into important ground I think. This kind of theme shows up on the DB off and on, but that just shows how central it is to our feelings and how we look at what happened to us.

I was 11 too, Adam. I wasn't kept in a closet, but I screamed into my pillow after every time and wondered where was God. I felt abandoned by God, who even allowed the abuser to molest me and then show up in church the next day to serve as an usher or deacon or collect the morning offering. He sat with his family in pious respectability and smiled over the pews at me. In Sunday School there was a huge picture of Jesus surrounded by children, and every time I saw that I felt more degraded and unlovable.

The feeling I have now, Adam, is what I call here a feeling of being "disconnected". Since I started the thread I have been struggling myself to figure out what that means.

It isn't a matter of disbelief. Perhaps that's what it was when I was your age and living an insane life dominated by drugs and alcohol. But now I think that to propose that the world is all a great "accident" is even more incredible than to propose that it must be the work of a creating God. This could of course go on into a thread of its own.

By "disconnected" I think I mean that I don't understand how I can or should react to the fact that a wise, benevolent and just God allowed me - and you - to suffer so terribly. How am I to relate to that fact? How can I incorporate it into my life?

I think that in a way I am doing that now, and I think that the rest of us are doing the same. We are here for our own recovery, of course. But I think we all somehow sense, or feel, that part of our recovery involves rediscovering and restoring a spiritual dimension to ourselves that was especially brutalized and ravaged by abuse. By spiritual I do not mean anything necessarily religious, though for me that is an important aspect of it.

What I have in mind is regaining an ability truly to love, beginning with ourselves. An ability to recognize and feel the suffering of ourselves and others, so as better to respond in our own case and to offer support where our brothers are concerned. An ability to see the tremendous good in ourselves and in the world at large, since for the rest of our lives it is in the world that we will have to seek fulfillment and joy for ourselves and those we care about. An ability to appreciate our own importance and worth while realizing how small we all are in the cosmic sceme of things. And an ability to appreciate that our happiness will come as much from what we can give as what we can gain.

God for me is the means to connect to all that, and at the moment I do not see the way forward. But I do know the way is there, so I search. I feel that you are doing the same.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78100 - 12/27/05 11:12 AM Re: disconnected from God
dibargib Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 14
Just to interject my own thoughts and situation and things related to god...

My parents stopped taking me to church (Roman catholic) about the time they started splitting up - I guess I was about 13 or so. That was fine - I couldn't stand church. For me God was never a concept that made a whole heck of a lot of sense. I went, and I sat through the Sunday schools, and the communion, and so on, but I never really think I believed in God-as-reality. I'm not really sure why - I remember myself thinking that so many awful things happen in the world, so how can there be a God? How can he let these things happen? I think another thing that really got to me was my dad's reaction when my parents were breaking up. We hadn't gone in a few months, and he decided we were GOING to GO, because that would MEAN we were a FAMILY. And I don't know if I thought this at the time or if I'm thinking it looking back, but it seemed(s) to me that church was just this place for all those isolated little suburban units to come together and feel like they're a community, like they're whole, and like everythings "ok." [oh, and the whole creation and Noah's Ark thing really threw me for a loop. I was waay too sciencey for that .]

Anyway, I didn't go to church, and I remember one night when I was about 15 I loudly 'renounced' God. By that point I think I had really felt that any almighty power that might exist had totally and utterly abandoned me. I pretty much kept that until college, although I invented some interesting religions of my own at various points...

So, fast forward to college. The guys that lived across the hall from me my freshman year were fairly devout presbyterians. But they didn't fit my regular stereotype of people that I knew who were bible-goers. They were intelligent, on-edge, free thinking people. Most of the people like that whom I had met previously had been fairly unreligious or agnostic. But for these guys, God was something that gave them so much hope, gave their lives meaning. It was based on their faith in God...

...and I thought, "I want that... why can't I have that?"

And I tried. For 6 months I tried and tried. I went to their meetings (and met some really nice people who WERE a lot like the other Christians I had met before, rather innocent, insulated, and charmingly bigoted), I read their Book, I really tried to connect. I prayed. I prayed my heart out. I really thought... maybe, just maybe, I can believe - maybe this is all real, and not just something people make up to make themselves feel better about their desolate mortality. And maybe I can have faith in that.

And then... and it's hard to explain... It all fell apart. The hurting, which had gone on sabbatical for a few months, came back in force. I fell in this girl who I thought was God-gifted to me... and it was all wrong. And the people whom I had met and the God in whom I had come to believe couldn't help me.

And I rejected it again. I threw out the bibles, I put away the crucifix, I withdrew from the groups, and significantly cut down the contact with the people I had met. It all felt so damned false, so wrong, like I had been acting the whole time, like I had put on this face to the world, and to myself, that yes, I can be one of you, I can believe, and it can bring me to a better place. It can help me in all the ways it helps you. See? Right?

A little under a year later I started seeing my T. And she helped me infinitely more than God did. And I know that I was expecting things that maybe weren't fair to expect - God doesn't promise to improve our lives on earth, other than with the hope for a future of blissful eternity... But that experience made me furious with the idea of 'god', rather than just passively indifferent. I could barely keep from scowling while my dad said 'grace' at dinner yesterday. Because in my mind, I was abandoned, once again, by God. Whether he is real, or just a concept, he, who seems to grant so much fucking comfort to so many fucking people, left me in the lurch, and feels so infinitely unaccessible. The only way that I've found that has even started me in the direction of healing (and I only really truly started to seriously entertain the possibility of having been abused about a week ago - I've meticulously avoided bringing it up with my T) has been to do so myself. God couldn't help me, yet I could... what does that say about God?

Sorry, I'm finding myself getting angry right now, and I know that this post has mainly been dominated by people who have found their way into belief. It was actually Shadow's post that gave me the courage to post myself.

Anyway, in sum, if God would punish to eternal torment a person who has gone through so much already, I don't think I'd really want to join his party anyway.

-John

_________________________
---
"...but first you must be the change you want to see in the world." -Gandhi

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#78101 - 12/27/05 12:00 PM Re: disconnected from God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
John,

I'm glad both you and Adam contributed to the thread. It's not a real discussion if there is a kind of implicit censorship going on. I relate to the topic with an attitude of searching, Adam with challenging, and you with anger. We are all different people and we all need to express what is on our minds.

I see your signature line is "JB". I guess those are your initials, but that reminds me of Archibald MacLeish's book "J.B." If you haven't read this book, I think you would like it. It's a modern takeoff on the Book of Job and has a lot to do with anger in the face of unjust suffering. The attitude of J.B., the hero, is a lot like yours.

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78102 - 12/31/05 11:38 PM Re: disconnected from God
applefish Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/31/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Dear Larry,
new MS member, old male survivor. I totally relate to what your saying. I too consider myself a spiritual person but feel very much disconected from God. Years ago I trusted in throwing myself into the fray although emotionally I was too scared to really know what was the correct direction to take. So I tried to trust "my inner voice", and felt I got burned. Now I'm having a hard time getting back to that trust and feeling very disconected. I suppose that is what sexual abuse does it disconnects you from the world. Are we not all trying to get back to love and trust and ultimately faith? Does this not sound like God? The issue that I struggle with is trust and intamacy, yet I do have an inner voice that keeps leading me back to spirituality. But in the end what does it all mean. Getting back to "normal" seems at times entirelly esoteric.
Love Jeff


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#78103 - 01/02/06 08:44 AM Re: disconnected from God
Dewey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 137
Loc: the sunshine state
Hey guys,



Edited by Dewey (11/08/10 12:18 AM)

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