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#78023 - 10/30/05 05:43 AM Battle With God
yesac76 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 508
Loc: Idaho
I realized that I had been angry with God for allowing my SA. I have come to terms with it, and I know it was not God let it happen, He has just protected me enough for me to finally begin healing. I love God, and I am thankful he has not given up on me!

_________________________
"You live it or lie it" Metallica

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#78024 - 10/30/05 06:01 AM Re: Battle With God
FormerTexan Offline
Site Administrator
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 11020
Loc: Denver, CO
I would say AMEN to that one!

God blessed me with a recent realization a couple weeks ago. It was a gift, because the results have been good.

FT

_________________________
List of things ain't nobody got time for:

1. That


If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#78025 - 10/30/05 11:18 AM Re: Battle With God
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Bless you,
I'm still in an argument with mine, but I will rejoice with you both.

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#78026 - 10/30/05 05:42 PM Re: Battle With God
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16264
Hey guys,

I can relate to this one. I've spent so much time being angry with God over all of this. I think I've been able to move beyond that now. At least I haven't thought about it in a long while.

I think a big part of the battle was in admitting I had the anger in the first place. I spoke out about it one day when we were having our "worship" time with the men's chorus I sing in. The guys were very understanding, some of them even echoing my thoughts. We discussed it for a while. No one got offended or judgemental over it. That, I think, helped me a lot to place perspective on the issue.

I think it is a common human condition to have that anger toward God. And you know what? I think he welcomes our questioning minds. How else are we supposed to integrate his truth with what happened to us?

Just the way I feel about it,

Courage my friends,

John

_________________________
“Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ____…! What a ride!’” ~Hunter S. Thompson

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#78027 - 10/30/05 06:46 PM Re: Battle With God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I have fought this fight since I started to come out of denial. I am a practical and largely secular person in many ways, but life isn't all about those things and I feel I am a devout Christian as well. I don't feel I belong in a church yet, and I know that isn't right, but it's how I feel.

Part of how I feel comes from my abuser, who was an elder in our church (Protestant) and enormously respected. I knew no one would believe me if I told, and of course he helped me along that road. He also told me if I said anything against him, he would just deny it, I would be discovered for the dirty boy I was, and the Session would vote and send me to hell. That terrified me: I thought I was already in hell.

Recently I have started to come to terms with all this. I think about all the blessings in my life and how others are so much worse off than me. I have so much to be thankful for.

God is not the creator of CSA - all those things were the doing of evil people. And for me God is not even the creator of evil. Evil is a lack of goodness, nothing more, in the same way that the dark is just an absence of light. It is the perp who chose to do evil, hurt me, and reject the options for goodness that were always available to him; God didn't set me up or abandon me.

I would not wish all this on anyone, but I can also say that my life is richer because of the things I have learned and the people I have met as a survivor.

I like the way John ends his post: "courage my friends".

Much love,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78028 - 10/30/05 07:15 PM Re: Battle With God
AuthenticMe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner:

I would not wish all this on anyone, but I can also say that my life is richer because of the things I have learned and the people I have met as a survivor.
Amen to that, Larry.

_________________________
I am a Man.

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#78029 - 11/02/05 09:07 AM Re: Battle With God
Defiance Is Best Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: The Moon
This is outrageous. Do you believe God could have stopped the abuse?

I hope God couldn't have stopped the abuse. If he could have than he's the greatest moral monster the human race will ever face.

God is powerless. God can do almost nothing. That is why God is lovable.

_________________________
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered."
Patrick McGoohan as Number Six on "The Prisoner"

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#78030 - 11/02/05 07:15 PM Re: Battle With God
AuthenticMe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 287
Defiance,

I like your last three closing sentences. According to Tibetan Buddhism, the Buddha is all-knowing and all-compassionate, but not all-powerful.

I've always had trouble understanding the concept of an all-powerful God allowing such suffering on earth (this is a matter of personal opinion and not a criticism of anyone's religious beliefs). I never tied it to my own SA, but your post made the connection for me.

Thank you.

_________________________
I am a Man.

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#78031 - 11/11/05 01:58 PM Re: Battle With God
Defiance Is Best Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 12
Loc: The Moon
AuthenticMe

I'm a Catholic but I've been looking into a bit of Buddhism recently. A good religion - bright, lucid, and sober. I'm happy to pull in a bit of Gautama's wisdom.

In my view of things, speaking as a Catholic, Jesus is the emblem of God: on a cross, powerless, and yet in utter solidarity with all who suffer.

_________________________
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered."
Patrick McGoohan as Number Six on "The Prisoner"

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#78032 - 11/16/05 05:28 PM Re: Battle With God
Morning Star Offline
Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 1124
Loc: Home
Up there on my Cross

One day, when I looked sad and pale
Jesus came to me.

“Why do you carry
all this pain?”
He asked me.

Lord, I too have suffered
just like you.
I too have hung
up there on my cross.

Jesus said to me,
“But I didn’t feel the pain
at all, for
it wasn’t me
who went up
the cross!
It was my Lord
who hung
instead of me.”

_________________________
~ It's over!...Let go of Thy Past, Remember Thy Self ~

Why Don't People Heal, by Caroline Myss; 30 days to clean up your vibrations - Abraham-Hicks

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#78033 - 12/04/05 11:45 PM Re: Battle With God
wandering Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Philadelphia
in my frequent struggles with religious belief or lack of it, one of the thing that i quietly boggle over is the deeply, deeply-ingrained imagery of g-d as Some Dude who can Do Stuff, like the Wizard behind the curtain...

there's a lot of apocrypha that's been lost or 'discredited' over the years - i think it is telling that it's shouted down and ignored by the same sort of people as described by the OP, who use Hell as a threat to the innocent to cover their own evil, because they weren't tyrranical or controlling enough.

In losing these stories and concepts, we lose a lot of the aspects of religion that make it ... well, possible, to my view. that make any interface between the Creator and the Created even possible, bearable, conceivable, dare i even say enjoyable.

G-d is not Some Guy. Every religion "of the book" has some pretty stringent rules *against* this view, yet in the absense of a solid idea the human mind must invent *some* imagery as a referent. And so we create G-d in our own image, and rail at Its flawed nature of our own devising...

i'm going to share a brief old story that has helped comfort me when i paint myself into any kind of corner, mental emotional or otherwise. i hope you can see the parallels to everyday life. Please understand that i am attempting to sum up and do not wish to push or detract any particular point of view - the absolutes in the story are the story's, not mine \:\) .

Avram who became Abraham's story is basically this: everyone was an idolator, making these figures that stood for everything they didn't understand, and worshipping them, appeasing them, fearing them and appealing to them. They were, in this region, of course, made of clay.

Avram's inspiration - his contact with the True G-d - the flash of insight, the story of G-d taking up clay and fashioning Man - is the reverse of this. Do you see why?

The idols we make, the iconic meanings we give things, come from ourselves. They are smaller than us; we made them. Yet we then place attributes on these man-made things greater than ourselves. A true G-d cannot be contained in any silly shape we form for it. Over time, when you worship any idol, you forget that its shape is of our own devising and the form overtakes the meaning. The form *becomes* the meaning. The true divinity is lost.

When an unjust law or rule persists and is mindlessly obeyed to the detriment of those it was written to protect, we are idolators.

When the pursuit of money takes the place of the goals we thought we wanted that money for - stability, providing, doing good works - we are idolators.

It is not "a sin" for its own sake, and it is not simply self-inflicted slavery: it is both, the greater sin is in the self-inflicted bondage to our own limitations, mistaking them for a greater truth, and in doing so, moving further from the real Source.

When i get angry at G-d, i remember that i don't even know what it is i think i'm angry *at!* It is said that every person has their angels assigned to them, not as seperate beings given some job of guarding or berating or comforting, but connected and inseperarable and unique. When you do good, are happy, spread love, they dance around you and sing and lift their faces. When you cause harm, are sad, lose generosity of spirit, they shuffle morosely at your side and stare at the ground.

It is a reminder that each and every one of us has power, and for some of us to have it all of us must. Our abusers caused harm. They had that choice. They had that power. The worst thing to do now is to forget and deny our own power. For it comes from G-d, and the devious and the maleficent may conceal it from us or make us forget it is there, but *they cannot diminish it for they have no power over G-d.* Not the source.

If you wish to see the hand of G-d at work, look to the end of your own arm. The truth of it is in the results. Are we capable of doing good? Of helping in worthy causes? Of making someone feel better? Of making someone feel safe? Of Love? What else is G-d?

I understand the dangers and the problems so many have with this. Cause i have had them too! I'm not responsible for good or ill, it's all G-d, it's not me, what's the point, but no, it is all of us. All of us and G-d. There is no seperation. No castle in the sky where the Some Guy with a beard dwells apart and Makes Us Do Stuff.

And can we cause harm with those same hands? Yes, and so we have choice. If we didn't have that choice then we *would* be the puppets of Some Guy, meaningless in doing 'good' like some remote controlled robot. Because we have the choice, good has meaning.

because we have to make the effort.

And it's pretty ^&$#?!!ing hard sometimes.

this became a LOT longer than i thought it would. like my first post. ehehehe... thanks for sticking with it, apparently i need to vent :rolleyes:


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#78034 - 12/05/05 02:27 AM Re: Battle With God
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i have talked to preachers ,pastors, priests,and none of them could give me any answers that made sense ,then while reading some of the bible it seemed so strange that many of the things it says about god could be describing my abuser , i know that sounds crazy ,but it says that i must obey god at all times ,my abuser beat obedience into me ,i had to obey him at all times ,it says we must place our lives in gods hands ,my life was placed in my abusers hands ,he held the power of life and death for me ,it says we must suffer to prove our loyalty to god ,my abuser made me suffer everyday ,then made me tell him i loved him ,it says we may not understand god way i sure as hell didn't understand my abuser but he assured me it was for my own good ,i was told by a priest that my suffering was a test set up for me by god to test my faith ,well i guess i failed because i believe if there is a god he has forsaken me when i needed him most ,i prayed everyday for rescue or death ,was god watching all the time yet did nothing? what kind of god would let a small child suffer so greatly just to see if he would still believe? where was god when my fingers were broken ,where was god when i was being raped over and over ,where was god when i was beaten daily for 3 months? where was god when my insides were being invaded by something so huge ,the tissues tearing ,the blood flowing the disgrace so great ,where was god when my foster dad decided he would straighten me out by holding my head underwater to make me mind .where was god when i just quit believing in anything ?i think god is just another fairy tale like santa claus or the tooth fairy .

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#78035 - 12/05/05 06:43 AM Re: Battle With God
wandering Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Philadelphia
god was the voice that told them they knew what they were doing was wrong.

god was with your grandmother when she found the strength to act in defiance of your family, and to welcome you with love.

but mostly god was with you crying. like all of us here.


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#445185 - 08/22/13 11:17 PM Re: Battle With God [Re: yesac76]
victor-victim Offline


Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 3007
Loc: O Kanada
i can remember when i was "at war" with god.

i was very angry and resentful.

i imagined a god that was incompetent,
insensitive, disinterested or sadistic.
i had no shortage of intelligence.
my problem was actually lack of imagination
with a large dose of arrogance and ignorance.

reading, researching, studying,
exploring the bible was where i found all my answers.
the answers gave me peace.

whatever made me think that i could challenge or even criticize the creator of the universe, i cannot remember.

picture a flea declaring war on a dinosaur.
picture a plankton wrestling a whale.
imagine an atom attacking a star.
can an water molecule complain about the temperature of the ocean?

god did not punish me for my impudence.
he rewarded me with redemption.

his love is infinite.
_________________________
Victor|Victim

War
Love
Poetry

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