Hi,
FTGF, very good thoughts on forgiveness. Our bitterness only eats ourselves up. Giving the perp power is what they wanted in the first place. Good insight! Born to resist...thanks! Andrew I agree wholeheartedly. This is a good thread. Good insights all around. For me, it's important that we know God loves us. He allows things to happen by the free will we exercise or, unfortunately, others exercised on us. In the end, it boils down to God doesn't cause bad things to happen, he permits us collectively to act as we will (and pay the consequences...and the perps will find recompense someday in some way). God wants free agents not robots. If he forced people to act we'd all be robots. That doesn't mean innocents won't get hurt, unfortunately. God also can help ease the pain and sustain us and heal us too. I'm trying every day to let God heal me. Part of the problem is that when we've been hurt by authority figures (older brothers or parents, or just an adult), it becomes hard, very hard to trust anyone who is more powerful, or an authority. Nobody fits that de>

Just a couple of thoughts on forgiveness... If you have grown up in church you may tend
to "just forgive" without working through your feelings in it. I have found in my own life from all the hurt and abandonment I have tried to "just forgive" and move on, but in reality all I was doing was stuffing it inside and not really working through my feelings because the Bible says... we must forgive. I now feel that God would have us work through our feelings, own them (our feelings) and then release them.

Of course I am still working though mine with the purpose of resolution.

Regards,
Rivers

1. I had a thread going in the Male Survivor section titled "Addressing Loneliness..." and that thread drifted over to themes about God bc well my therapist mentioned that I was Lonely for a connection w/ God/Source/Universe (or whatever other terms a person chooses for 'higher power'.)

2. And my therapist suggested that when I find myself driving around alone and having "conversations" out loud in the car w/ ex-girlfriends or other people that I need to try to shift those conversations to wanting to pour my heart out towards God.

3. And that scared me and really agitated me bc I had to admit that even though I pray when I am overwhelmed, that I have major, major reservations about allowing myself to be vulnerable to 'God/Source/Universe' ... Well I have major reservations about allowing myself to be vulnerable and get close to anyone at all these days.

4. My therapist is right of course [@#$!] that I am going to continue to have trouble finding reliable connections w/ other people until I establish a sort of relationship w/ God/Source/Universe as SAFE. Rivers made a good point about working through feelings and I have just begun to untangle the mess of knots in my soul including Anger at God. "Ok God, I'm Here" I said in the car a couple of times today ... Just in a sense announcing my desire for some divine dialog.

5. So today after work I stopped off at the Library and picked up a book called "Conversations w/ God: Book 1". And I am going to go upstairs and draw a hot bath and start reading and hopefully God and I will begin to get acquainted.

God isn't around to explain anything. God is dead. I shot him myself. In Reno. Just to watch him die.

DIB -I am not sure which god you killed but the one I know is still here and doing fine.

I really appreciate your words philip. When you have been fed a "God" that is angry and ready to kill you and damn you to hell if you step out of line and that he is the one who did this to you... it's hard to want to find him or trust him. But when you find the one who is loving and healing and is wanting to help you through all of your abandonment and pain He can make a diffence if we give Him the opportunity.

Rivers

Thank you Rivers. I haven't been on the board much lately...I'm in Rural Pennsylvania myself, at a Seminary and am way too busy for my own good. It's beautiful here this time of year. Thanks for the kind words. Kind words sometimes are the best we can hope for at times.

I was working at a Renaissance fair, playing music as a performer. There was a little child in a stroller with his parents. He was just howling and crying for some reason. I came over to play him some music..and then I noticed that he was older than his size made him look..and then I noticed that he was "different" a little twisted in frame, not all there mentally perhaps, but in pain and agitated by the heat and the bumpy ride. I started playing music for him...just a few little chords on a guitar. His parents said, "Look he's playing just for you!" "for me?" he smiled through his tears. He then burst out laughing and had such a look of joy on his face. I saw the relief on his mother's face and his father's face as they whispered "thank you." Then they were gone. Later that night, I began to pray for that child and his family and an overwhelming grief for them came over me and an overwhelming joy and sense of gratitude for the gifts I'd been given. I cannot explain the feeling except to say I was so overwhelmed I wasn't sure I could continue living and contain that sorrow and joy, literally, for a few seconds. I came out of that with a profound sense of wonder and thanksgiving. I understood that in those few seconds of playing music, I had given the Lord a cool drink of water. In the kindness I had done for another, I had done a kindness to God...and on the other hand the recipient had been given a glimpse of God's love. I am sure it might have been the one time I had committed a completely spontaneous, completely unselfish act of love... In that one moment, so mundane, so brief, eternity had been touched. I might never have another moment like that one. By God's mercy I will have many, I hope. Why am I saying all this? Heck I don't really know...it's the thought that came to me as I was reading this thread. Maybe it's that we all have a chance to be the healing hands of God and by that we can be healed by God by those we help. To paraphrase St. Paul, you may have all the answers, you may be able to perform miracles, if you don't have love, though, you don't have anything. It is through love of others and forgiving that we are healed and heal. Sometimes we have to forget ourself to remember who we are: children of God made in his image. Maybe someday, if we love enough, we will become in his likeness as well and when others look at us, they see the perfect mirror of God. Amen...may it be so.


Now back to the homework.

Philip

I have a different "take" if you will on religion. My molestor was the son of a prominant Baptist minister. I was Presbyterian at that time, if that matters anyway. To make a long story short I was never from that time comfortable with christianity. I never set foot in a church for 40+ years. Several years ago I converted to Judaism and have been happy ever since. I think I was headed to be a Jew from the first time I heard the Kol Nidre well before I was molested at age 10. I'm a "Fiesty Yid" & proud of it. And I'm back quiet.

WHAT DID JESUS SAY?

When he hung
on the cross,
up there
did he once say,
Why me?

Or did he say
something like,
Lord Forgive them
for they know not
what they do.

That was his
only lament.

And then
he got busy
being one
with God
that lies in you
as in me.

Amunhotep,

If you molester would have been a jew, would you not be uncomfortable with Judaism?

My first violater was blond, Lutheran - good church boy - but I couldn't stand blond guys for a long time and still stay clear of the Lutheran Church (the building in my home town).

I am happy that you are happy in your faith - But Christianity in it's purest form is also very fulfilling. When I say purest form I mean -You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. A large percentage of "Christianity" is just a religion and not a true relationship with God through His Son. I find there to be a huge difference between the two. I have done both - so it's from personal experience that I share.

I appreciate your post and believe me I am not picking any arguement. I just know that from my own abuse I have strong dislikes... for instance, hunters in there hunting gear (I was violated by a hunter) - Athletic, football, baseball type (I was violated in gangs by them). So I was just wanting you to see that your distaste or uncomfortableness for Christianity could be from your abuse and not because of the Faith itself.

If I were violtated by a Christian Church leader (priest, pastor or such) I am sure I would have significant issues with "Christianity" so I am not judging you or your faith in any way... I am just giving a perspective.

Sincerely,
Rivers

The River Of Dreams
- Billy Joel
In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
From the mountains of faith
To a river so deep
I must be looking for something
Something sacred I lost
But the river is wide
And it's too hard to cross

And even though I know the river is wide
I walk down every evening and I stand on the shore
And try to cross to the opposite side
So I can finally find out what I've been looking for

In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the valley of fear
To a river so deep
And I've been searching for something
Taken out of my soul
Something I would never lose
Something somebody stole

I don't know why I go walking at night
But now I'm tired and I don't want to walk anymore
I hope it doesn't take the rest of my life
Until I find what it is that I've been looking for

In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the jungle of doubt
To a river so deep
I know I'm searching for something
Something so undefined
That it can only be seen
By the eyes of the blind
In the middle of the night

I'm not sure about a life after this
God knows I've never been a spiritual man
Baptized by the fire, I wade into the river
That runs to the promised land
In the middle of the night
I go walking in my sleep
Through the desert of truth
To the river so deep
We all end in the ocean
We all start in the streams
We're all carried along
By the river of dreams
In the middle of the night