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#77996 - 10/22/05 01:17 AM Views on God
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Don't know who said it but, "If there is a God, he has a shitload of explaining to do!"

That's how I feel about spirituality right now. Hopefully, someday, I will get past this, but that day is not today.

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#77997 - 10/22/05 01:51 AM Re: Views on God
Born to Resist Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Southern California, USA
If God did explain it I probably wouldn't understand it. And even if I did it wouldn't take the pain away ...


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#77998 - 10/22/05 02:46 AM Re: Views on God
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
I can see how I could forgive whoever did this to me, like maybe if it was my mom. She was raped by her older brother when she was 12, as she told me a few years ago after years of therapy. It has by no means been smooth sailing for her since then, but she has been able to keep here ship off the rocks. Lord knows she did not asked to get raped when she was 12. Anyway, I could forgive her, if it were her.

It is hard for me to believe in God, although I really want to. The alternative is just too depressing to consider.

I do not see a way to forgive God. God killed Job's whole family. But, Job still praised God. I wonder if Job would have still praised God if he had been fucked up the ass at 9 years old?

I'm sorry. I know that is incredibly vulgar of me, but it is how I feel about it. I know I need to get past it, but it ain't happening today.

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Fight the Good Fight!

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#77999 - 10/22/05 03:58 AM Re: Views on God
Born to Resist Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 269
Loc: Southern California, USA
This is a hard topic since we're all in different places about God and its a sensitve subject.

Being Catholic and going to Catholic school for 8 years I'm familar with Job and have a similar perspective to ftgf on the parable that is meant to be a test of one's faith. I also understand it's meant as a symbolic story.

The God that I know let/allowed this to happen to me. I've prayed a long time to get rid of this pain. Damn it if I'm not pissed off at times at God for having to live this way ...

Yet I still believe in God, most of all I have to believe in heaven. I have to believe that God at least protected my soul from also becoming evil from the evil acts that were done to me. That I have a chance to get rid of this pain. This pain that is a living hell. That what I have to do is strive for recovery

For me, I have to believe, cause its the only way I can keep what's left of my sanity. I have to cause its the only way I can keep up any sort of fight.

If anything I can't let evil win ... I can't let it own me.

The true enemy is evil ... and the enemy of my enemy is my ally ... while I sure don't understand or agree with God's strategy against evil ... I see him as an ally, one I often argue with, against my true enemy.

at least that's were I'm at with it now ...


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#78000 - 10/22/05 05:00 AM Re: Views on God
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Born to Resist,
Thank you for that thoughtful post. It helps to make sense out of senselessness.

I use to think that the greatest part about going to heaven was that you would finally understand everything. Things would make sense.

It is so hard for me not to believe in God. But if I believe in God, it is so hard for me not to demand an explaination. I know it doesn't work that way, but it's how I feel.

Maybe someday, I can get to a better place with my faith.

Thanks again for your post. It helped.

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Fight the Good Fight!

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#78001 - 10/22/05 08:06 AM Re: Views on God
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Born to Resist,
You know, you relly helped me today with my faith.

As you said "God protected my soul from also becoming evil from the evil acts that were done to me."

That's an anchor I can hold on to, as my soul did not become evil. I have never had the desire to hurt anyone, the way they hurt me. For that, I thank God.

Thank you, for helping me see it that way.

_________________________
Fight the Good Fight!

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#78002 - 10/22/05 10:59 AM Re: Views on God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
There are a lot of issues here, all of them pretty important.

One answer must be that just as God didn't commit the Holocaust or the genocide in Rwanda, he's not responsible for the abuse of children - the blame for that goes 100% to the perps who hurt us, just as the blame for other crimes falls on those who commit them.

Another thing that helps me is to look at the positive things in my life. I have lost a lot, but as Born to Resist right stresses, it is already something to be able to say that you have not succumbed to this terible evil yourself.

But there is more. I have my health (mostly) and a loving family, and I have been able to support my family doing work that I love. I have done a lot of interesting and fulfilling things in my life, and my wife and I have raised two great kids to become healthy, happy and well-adjusted adults. I have cultivated abilities in music and writing, and my troubles do not prevent me from appreciating what is beautiful and good in the world. I could do without the abuse, sure, and often I still dwell on that and have powerful feelings about it. But I still have so much to be thankful for.

I am also coming to see that although I would never wish this on my worst enemy, dealing with my past is making me a more compassionate person, someone who is more acutely atune to the suffering and pain of others. I also think I am developing a more rounded and integrated view of myself as a human being and as a man. Most of the macho and testosterone-fueled ideas that many men fall for strike me as just so much nonsense, and I feel I am the better for that. I have also made many friends among my fellow survivors here; I have a deeply personal and abiding affection for them, and our friendship is extremely important to me. And with no exception, these are guys I have never met.

ftgt, you express some angry feelings and that's okay. This is how you feel and that needs to come out; feeling we have the option of talking about it gives us some measure of control again, and we need that. Or at least I find it important. Feeling that I am still in command SOMEWHERE makes it easier to trust others and let them help me.

Forgiveness: That's the tough one, and I guess we will all differ on this. Some will say forgiveness is an integral part of the healing process, but I don't see it that way. Forgiving my perp (who's long deceased anyway) is nowhere on my list of priorities. On that one I am prepared to be selfish. I may work on that if I come to see it as somehow contributing to my healing. Otherwise, to steal your phrase: "it ain't happening". Perhaps I would feel differently had my abuser been a family member.

Take care,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#78003 - 10/22/05 10:28 PM Re: Views on God
ftgf Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 49
Loc: USA
Larry,
As usual, very thoughtful words.

On foregiveness, I can only think of one reason to foregive your abuser. Perhaps, and only perhaps, until you foregive your abuser you are giving them power over you.

I relate it this way to my wife, who still HATES her ex-husband. I think as long as she harbors hate for him, he still has power over her. I long for the day for her when she has no feelings for him at all. then she will be free of him.

Of course, this is very easy for me to say,isn't it? My inner child can't even tell me yet who my abuser was. Probably because he knows I'm not ready, and might do something very stupid with that knowledge right now. He is smarter than me in some ways, I have come to understand. LOL

_________________________
Fight the Good Fight!

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#78004 - 10/23/05 02:43 AM Re: Views on God
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
My personal interpretation of God's intent is that he gave us the franchise to choose. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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#78005 - 10/23/05 05:59 PM Re: Views on God
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
ftgf,

Very interesting take on forgiveness - I had not thought of that, but I can see the point.

You are right to respect where "Little Jeff" is allowing and not allowing you to go so far. Take his hand, let him feel safe and supported in your care, and see what he tells you further on down the road.

Take care,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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