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#77457 - 11/23/04 04:13 PM Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
There has been commentary here in regards to religious views (particularly Christianity) and homosexuality. Most of them have been positive, but some of them have been negative. I would like to weigh in with my two cents on the issue. Please do NOT be offended if my view isn't shared by you. I'm only asking that you THINK about what I am saying, and consider this before you respond to this or another post of this nature.

I was raised Catholic, a form of Christianity, and there is an overwhelmingly comdemnatory view of homosexuality as a lifestyle in Catholicism. This is a puzzlement to me, because I have seen in the Bible Christ's charge to his apostles, "verily, I give to you a new commandment - love one another as I have loved you, forgive one another as I have forgiven you." This seems to have trumped almost all the other exclusionatory tenents mentioned in the Old Testament, except for, I'm sure, the ten commandments.

It's startling to me that those who seek to condemn will cherrypick things from their religious text, be it the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, or whichever will STILL consider themselves a loving child of God when they realize that the time they choose to do this "quarterbacking" and "preaching" may not be appropriate and will indeed go AGAINST God's charge in every religion, to do no harm to your fellows.

Brothers and sisters in religion, you mean well, but this isn't the time or the place to try and convince or "save" anyone. This is a place to heal from terrible violations done to us as children and adults. Your attempts at "saving" people like me are unwelcome and, indeed, may FORCE me away from your words.

Look at it another way. Would YOU preach at a woman who has survived horrible abuse that she is a "fornicator" and probably an "adulteress" (because her abuser was probably married) and needs to confess HER "sin" in order to achieve peace and healing? Probably not.

And if you're going to look at the Old Testament for "proof" of abomination when it comes to homosexuality, well, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy (sp?) are chock full of behaviors that were considered worthy of death (blasphemy, adultery, bestiality, work during the Sabbath, disobedience to parents, I could go on), but are considered no more than rude behavior today. NOT "abomination."

Every religious book is full of contradictions like this. It shouldn't necessarily be the letter of "The Law" you're following, but the SPIRIT (Holy or otherwise).

And consider that it's not your place to judge. "Vengence is mine, saith the Lord, and I will repay."

This is a place of healing.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#77458 - 11/23/04 04:40 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
TeeJayUU Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 262
Loc: MidWest
Scot,

As I have said here before, I am a "Born Again", Bible Toten, Memeber of an Evangelical Church who believes deeply in Christ and have very strong values and morals. These morals and valuse are opposed to judging or condeming others. How can I have stones in my hand when I live in my own Glass House!

I believe with ALL OF MY HEART AND SOUL that Christ, God, whomever you/we believe in, would not condem any brothers here! I just can't and won't think that my God is a punishing, vengeful God.

We are what we are, and here we are are all wounded with wounded hearts and souls and bodies and relationships. Our Father and His Son showed all of the world LOVE and ACCEPTANCE and PEACE!

I do not believe any one here, unless they are an active pedophile or abuser, murderer, et cetera, would be condemmed by Our Creator! Only the evil will be judged in that way. The rest of us will be looked at for our hearts and souls, and even though they are wounded, the hearts and souls here are FILLED with LOVE, COMPASION, a DESIRE TO DO GOOD and to HELP! This is what MY religion is all about.

So, to your post, Scot, I say AMEN and HALLELUJAH!
\:\) \:D ;\)

To ALL of the Brothers here, I hope and Pray that we all have peaceful and Blessed Thanksgivng! May Our Father Bless us for who are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

_________________________
"There is a plan for me, God has a Purpose, I know there is a reason that I'm ALIVE!" Cherish Grace
PEACE HOPE LOVE

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#77459 - 11/23/04 05:27 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
estuardo Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 45
Loc: ohio
Scot,

Thanks for telling us all what we need to hear. I appreciate the comment. I see homosexuality as an unwanted lifestyle, but because of our sexual trauma, see no other option. I hate it when Christians or others will quickly jump to the conclusion that those who pursue this are living in sin, without considering what drives someone to do this.

NARTH, which discusses the causes of homosexuality from a psychological perspective, has done some excellent, extensive research about this, and I came across an interesting article, when I was working through my homosexual attractions a few years ago.

The link is: http://www.narth.com/docs/studiesofinterest.html

and the first article, "Does Childhood Sexual Abuse
Influence Later Sexual Orientation?" discusses that very issue. The last paragraph gives an interesting research find, and I remind myself often, that those who are in the lifestyle didn't chose this initially, but more by default, because of the abuse.

The web site is great, BTW, and I recommend it to anyone trying to understand our same sex attractions.

Peace,
estuardo

_________________________
"I'm entitled to my opinion...even if it's wrong."

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#77460 - 11/24/04 07:35 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
Thomas Offline
Member

Registered: 07/31/03
Posts: 109
Loc: boise
Scot,

A truly needed post. I choose not to give my viewpoint on the acceptibility/sin/whatever of homosexuality. The entire subject is too inflammatory. But what you have to say about evangelism and judgment strikes a very deep chord with me.

This indeed is not the place to evangelize or push or whatever you choose to call it particular views. I grew up in a religious tradition that emphasized "witnessing" and street-corner-, handing-out-tracts-style evangelism. I couldn't do it then and I can't do it now. Such an in-your-face method is not my way. (Perhaps that's one reason I became and remain a Catholic as an adult.)

At any rate, if I have learned one thing in fifty-one years, I have learned this. Just when I think I have God all figured out, He surprises me. And always, always, always, in the direction of mercy and graciousness. He will not be put into a box or be tamed. Oh yes, I've learned something else. Nobody appointed me, least of all God, as judge of anything or anyone. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Thanks again, Scot, for a thought-provoking post.

Tom

_________________________
To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. - Robert Louis Stevenson

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#77461 - 11/24/04 08:05 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
TeeJayUU Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 262
Loc: MidWest
Tom & Scot,

A very good discussion, thanks!!! I wish more people would be supportive and understanding. No body needs an "in you face" person preaching at them!

Tom, you said, "At any rate, if I have learned one thing in fifty-one years, I have learned this. Just when I think I have God all figured out, He surprises me. And always, always, always, in the direction of mercy and graciousness. He will not be put into a box or be tamed. Oh yes, I've learned something else. Nobody appointed me, least of all God, as judge of anything or anyone."

Amen!

Have a wonderful day!

_________________________
"There is a plan for me, God has a Purpose, I know there is a reason that I'm ALIVE!" Cherish Grace
PEACE HOPE LOVE

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#77462 - 11/24/04 10:33 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
brokentoys Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/03/04
Posts: 149
Loc: So. California
Hi Scot,
Good call.
You know, I AM religious, I go to church and am a lay minister in my church. I have read the Bible since I was old enough to read and funny enough, nowhere in there do I find a call to arms. Nowhere in there have I ever seen anything about condemnation of others because of what they do. To the contrary, many times I find passages telling us to mind our own business and let others worry about theirs. I find expressions of love, help, support, nurturing and acceptance. I hope that anyone on this board who is of such a belief that it is their right or obligation to condemn others will follow the example of those who founded their religions. If you are gay, that is none of my business. If you are straight, that too is none of my business. You are who you are and that is all that matters. Especially on this board we all have something in common that is bigger than sexual orientation, and contrary to common belief, has nothing to do with sexual orientation. The person who abused me for many years was straight. It was about anger and power, not about sex. Sex was simply the tool, not the culprit. I hope we can all keep that in mind and forget about who's sleeping with who (or what) and stay focused on the things in life that matter on this board.
Brokentoys

_________________________
It's easier to go down a hill than up it but the view is much better at the top.

Arnold Bennet

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#77463 - 11/24/04 11:57 PM Re: Religion, homosexuality, and surviving (POSSIBLE TRIGGERS, POSSIBLY OFFENSIVE!)
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Faith, Hope and Love. You guys have demonstrated the way in which Love always comes out on top, here.

The most blessed of Thanksgivings to all of you!!

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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