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#77439 - 11/17/04 05:54 AM Re: Deleted
yesac76 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 508
Loc: Idaho
Just my opinion, but God loves ALL his children; gay, straight or bi. We are created in HIs image, so how could we be mistakes? I believe sexual orientation will not mean onything once we are in heaven.
Casey

_________________________
"You live it or lie it" Metallica

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#77440 - 11/17/04 12:47 PM Re: Deleted
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 473
Loc: UK
God stuff, non-believer Possible trigger

I don’t think I am of much support to you in this, as I don’t have any belief in god.

I was a Christian and had relationships with men and women. I could only understand sin as a crime, where there is no victim there can be no crime. I knew there was no difference between kissing or loving a man or woman. I know, lots of men and women who do not see any problem with being gay Christians. Fundamentalist Christians would see no difference in the sins committed by perps and those committed by gay or lesbian people. This is clearly ridiculous, as anyone here knows. The other thing that is clear is that thoughts and actions are not the same no matter what the bible says. No one is hurt by a thought they are only hurt by actions and gay love hurts no one, all love and friendship heal and make us better humans.

I grew up thinking that my gay thoughts and feelings made me the same in gods eyes as a perp, I was dammed either way. I believed that my only saving was to be extra holy, I joined a religious order at 17 hoping to make myself into something less shameful. I left after a year realising that these men of god just became sexually sick with their vow of chastity, It was never talked about, it was like living in a dysfunctional family. I knew I didn’t want to be like them and that no god I could believe in would want me to turn into that.
.
The bible has been used to justify all kinds of cruelty, from the crusades to slavery, that some Christians use it to justify homophobia is not new, however many Christians are changing their understanding biblical ‘truth’.

If god was a moral simpleton and as narrow minded and intolerant as some of his followers, I wouldn’t want to spend eternity with them anyway.

I take your point about the need for a trigger warning on posts that regard gay love as sinful. I respect the right of anyone to follow their own ‘truth’ and mine may be as offensive to others as theirs is to me, we can still support each other anyway.

Rustam


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#77441 - 11/17/04 03:36 PM Re: Deleted
DoingBetterNow Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 8
Loc: TN
I am not gonna try to change you or preach to you and tell you your damned or anything like that. I do want to speak of the conviction I felt with respect to my earlier thread.

I believe that my abuse affected my sexual development. I believe that the Holy Spirit was convicting me when I participated in certain acts as a young man. My response to that conviction and my decision to accept Christ has been amazing. He has healed me in ways I can't describe. No longer do I have desires that I consider sinful.

I can't tell you how you are supposed to feel. I think one thing that helps all of us is relating how each of us has coped. Best of luck to you, I hope that you find the answers you are looking for.


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#77442 - 11/18/04 04:58 PM Re: Deleted
TeeJayUU Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 262
Loc: MidWest
Marc,

I am a "Born Again" "Bible Toating" recently "Water Baptized" Christain who belongs to an Evangelical Church. I have only had a relationship with Christ for two years now.

My wife and I FRIMLY believe that Jesus would NEVER turn his back on a person due to their sexual orientation. Christ was about LOVE and ACCEPTANCE.

I believe that the sinners are people who are out there who are hurting other people like our Perps and murderers spouce beaters and the like.

We believe that if You believe and accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God, that He gave his life for us and our sins, then you will have the opportunity to meet him!

Marc, IN NO WAY CAN I ACCEPT that God would not embrace you for who you are! I have watched and listened to you, you are a warm, compasionate, caring man with a HUGE heart and a beautiful soul!

Whether by choice, by nature's imprint, or our past abuse, MANY of us have questions, issues, concerns about our sexuality. There is no doubt in my mind that EVERYBODY questions their own sexuality in their lives NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE.

Whether by nature, choice, or your past, you are gay. That is a part of Marc. God loves ALL of Marc (so do I)! You are a wondeful man who leads a life with NOTHING to be ashamed of.

I wish you well on this journey. You know we are Praying for you. I KNOW God loves you for who you are and wants you to find peace and healing!

_________________________
"There is a plan for me, God has a Purpose, I know there is a reason that I'm ALIVE!" Cherish Grace
PEACE HOPE LOVE

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#77443 - 11/18/04 08:28 PM Re: Deleted
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Marc, we are all Gods' children no matter what our sexual orientation may be, you are not defective.
SA, happening to a kid, sure confuses our sexuality for years, so we become confused and angry.

God, sure wont condemn anyone for what a perp did to them, or how they turned out after being abused. He is most likely to see you as one of the few who had the courage to live, rather than give up as so many did.

Most of the guys, and the ladies, who visit here must have earned a place in Heaven after suffering so much on Earth and living as decent citizens.

take care,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#77444 - 11/18/04 09:49 PM Re: Deleted
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Marc,
My faith helped me in many bad times in my life. It is making me to be better man, more tolerant and more giving to other people.
I realized that God's love doesn't have human borders and views.
If he wants to send me to hell I would be very happy to make his will without complaining.
But he would need to tell me that personally.
Because my faith is very personal and private thing.
Strictly spoken in old Testimony times I would be sinner if I would broke the Law.
But this Law was everything but not perfect. There was noone who didn't break the Law. Even more worst, during time people found way to practically do whatever they wanted (I mean bad things) and formally to do all according to the Law.
Then came Jesus and he reformed Law.
He ordered to us to love God with all powers of our hart (because he is endless love) and secondly to love all other people like we love ourselves (because all people are His children -> equal in His love).
Only those two things are important and nothing else.
That is how simple, beautiful and human is essence of Christianity.
And in all that I fit very well as a gay person.

PS. I am sorry, my ability to express myself in this complex topic is very limited and I am saying things on much more primitive level than I would like, my English is just not good enough for this topic but I hope that you would understand what I wanted to say.

Ivo


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#77445 - 11/18/04 09:56 PM Re: Deleted
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Now I think that all the replies should reveal that we are all gods children. The bigotry and spurning are fostered by those who choose their own interpretation of gods words and those others who are so friggen homophobic that I think they are trying to hide something.

We all have no say in our sexuality. We are created the way we are. And if it is the creators wish that we be what we are it must mean that it was done for a purpose. I am not a particularly religions person. But I do believe in a higher power. So lets all look at it that we were chose to be what we are for a reason and if god is all loving it must be that we have a specific assignment to accomplish.

Now I think that our purpose in life is to bring joy and happiness to someone and to provide love affection and devotion. There is no difference if you are gay or straight or somewhere in between. That is the human condition to love and to share and belong. So my gay brothers look not upon yourselves as an aberration or any of that other stuff. You are special. You have been chosen outside the norm. At least that is the way I feel about it. Hold your heads high and be proud.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#77446 - 11/19/04 01:56 AM Re: Deleted
parttimecop Offline
Member

Registered: 03/05/04
Posts: 139
I cannot judge another. However I do know what the bible calls sin. And I know I am guilty of many many sins. I can condemn myself, at least say that I am worthy of hell because of my sins(in and of myself that is). With the price of Blood, Jesus bought me. And those sins and stains upon my soul are made white as snow.

But we must also call those we love to lead righteous lives. I cannot condemn you, for I am no better in the eyes of God. But neither can I condone the way you choose to live. I do think it is sinful according to my understanding of God's word. But I am having trouble enough plucking the plank out of my eye to even call attention to your speck. So if I called your way of life sinful, it would be a blind man trying to lead another blind man. I don't know what the truth of the matter is, except to trust in Jesus. I accept you as a fellow pilgrim, just one with different(quite possibly fewer) flaws than mine.

I hope this answer helps your understanding in some way. I am trying to be as honest as I can. And I refuse to be politically correct. I must call sin what I understand to be sin. But as I call sin, sin, I must not condemn the sinner or by that standard I would be condemned. And I know I am no where near being able to cast that stone.


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#77448 - 11/19/04 07:15 AM Re: Deleted
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
I hope this thread is not locked or deleted, because I think there are some interesting points to be made with it.

We are all here for a common purpose, which is to begin or further our healing from sexual abuse. This forum by it's nature is a means of discussion of issues surrounding that, and not simply a place where we expect people to gather and all slap each other on the back in total agreement on every issue. If it were meerly that, this forum would have melted away long ago.

Tolerance is a tricky thing. If you say you don't like someone's viewpoint (even if their point of view seems intolerant), then you yourself have become intolerant of their intolerant viewpoint. And so it goes, round and round and round, and nothing is accomplished other than hurt feelings.

On the topic, Christians are often viewed as intolerant and as believing their way is the only way. Well, nothing new there...don't pretty much all religions feel that way? Is Judaism intolerant of Chritianity because they feel persecuted for something from 2000 years ago? Is Islam intolerant for what they view as infidels? And what about this Hindus and Buddhists? We could go on and on about how one religion views others, but that's something that will never be resolved.

If we're looking for validation from other's opinions of us, I believe that's the wrong place to be looking. Validation begins within ourselves and how we feel about ourselves. Learning to like ourselves is hard work, guys, don't believe for a minute that it's not. We've been kicked around by a lot of people in our lives, so we have every reason not to like ourselves. If you come to terms with yourself, learning to love yourself, then the validation of yourself is done. You're then worthy and validated in your own mind, and you don't have to have anyone else to say it's so or not.

_________________________
Eddie

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#77449 - 11/19/04 10:29 AM Re: Deleted
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Marc,
please try to not be angry.
God's word can be poison if it is not understood deeply and beyond human thinking.
Too often this is not the case.

This is very good subject for introspection and testing of all of us, of our faith and our acts.
I am glad that you brought these heavy questions on surface.

Try to feel good in relation to God, you are priceless in His eyes, nothing else is important,
Ivo


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