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#77360 - 10/01/04 04:23 AM Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Sean Simms Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Seattle
My grandfather a devout Catholic and an asshole introduced me to Catholicism. He showed me the rosary and how to pray to the Virgin Mary. Then he went and had sex with my sister.

As an adult I have often spent time praying the Church but have never been a full-on Catholic. I was talking about this with a local Catholic lay leader and he reminded me that I wasn't really Catholic because I hadn't experienced all of the the Sacrements yet and shouldn't take communion because "I was trying to have my cake and eat it too" without embracing their beliefs 100%.

I wanted to beat the fuck out of him. He knows my story. I've suffered enough from my "Catholic" grandfather. I don't think I need to embrace a Church that let thousands of kids be abused before trying to stop it.

The Church was not there for me when I needed it so I don't know why I should obey it.

Sean Simms

_________________________
"When you are Real you can't be ugly. People who think you are ugly just don't understand."
-the Velveteen Rabbit

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#77361 - 10/01/04 10:47 AM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Ivo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Dear Sean,
you are in very difficult situation.
It is the most important issue what is in your heart and not public display of devotion.
Act of taking communion is very, spiritually speaking, profound. It shouldn't be taken if you are not feeling prepared.
Catholic church has real strong codex what should be done in terms of order of sacraments.
But if you put all on scale God will always accept your decision if you made it with clear conscience.
Remember the story from Bible when king David ate bread from the Temple and was accused for sacrilege.
I am sorry I do not know any answer in relation to children abuse and church, maybe you should talk with some priest that is "open" enough to speak about.
Whatever you decide you should feel equal to all other members of a church, here I am thinking from Pope down right to you.
We are also all equal in front of God and his universal love, here I do not think only on Catholics but also on all other people no matter what is their religious assignment.

Ivo


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#77362 - 10/01/04 06:38 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Dan88 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
I'm afraid I have no answer for why you should involve yourself with a church.

I was abused by a minister, (not a priest). I haven't gotten heavily involved in organized religion since. I don't believe I will either. Which doesn't mean I have no relationship with God. I can also understand why people join churches.

But unfortunately, I view most of them as just hiding places for bigots of one kind or another. Just another way for people to set themselves apart from people they want to view as inferior.

Since I've seen both first-hand and through stories of other survivors how easily corrupted they are, it's hard to find any reason to put a church between me and God.

It's just not for me.


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#77363 - 10/01/04 07:01 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Sean,

I am really sorry about your dilemma, in my country you can have communion on days of reconcilliation.

My religion as a catholic is pretty strong in me, even if I don't go to church so much, no doubt as you say about your grandfather, why would he think himself a catholic or christian, but his twisted mind let him believe it.

You have so much a right to be able to participate in your religion, you are probably a lot better in mind and soul than most of the congregation, but God will still embrace you.

My religion was the cornerstone of getting through any of this, used to be in church so many times a week, sometimes 3 times a day on Sunday, it kept me from going insane all them years ago.

I am so sad at what the catholic church has been blighted with, but most priests are truly men of the cloth, or so I believe.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#77364 - 10/01/04 07:28 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Printer57 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 22
Loc: anytown, USA
Sean,
I am a Catholic Deacon who was abused as a child but not by a clergyman, but by a neighbor. I can really appreciate how you feel about the sometimes endless "rules" in the Catholic Church.
Its the church laws that help govern how we do all the things in our lives. That's why there are rules abt. who can/can't get maried in the church. The regs. about who can be a priest/or deacon for that matter and on and on.
Recieving Communion is the greatest sign of unity we have as Catholic people. For us it is when we are most together, being One as Jesus and His father are One.
So, its not just you, or any one else who hasn't first been Baptized, made first confession who cannot rec. Communion, but any other person who does not believe, as the church teaches that the bread and wine are really, and truly the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ Himself, that cannt rec. Communion. All of our Protestant brothers and Sisters likewise can't rec. Communion (except in the most extreme circumstances and even then there are limitations)
But this isn't about who can and can't rec. Communion, but it is I hope an invitation to you to explore the possiblity of perhaps seeing if being Catholic is what God is calling you to do.
Almost every church in the US has a "RCIA" program (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults)where adults see if becoming catholic is where God has them now.
People meet to discuss all these issues, find out abt. why we do what we do and then, if you sense God is calling you, then to recieve the Intitation sacraments (Baptism and Confession - or Reconcilation as its properly called) and then to be full members of the Catholic Church.
Lastly, the amount of harm caused by those priests who have abused is immeasurable. I know that in my own ministry all the talk of abuse has triggered several devastating emotional episodes.
Please know I'll be praying for you. Thank God the Church is bigger then any of its priests (and deacons too)
Peace,
printer


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#77365 - 10/01/04 10:10 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Sean Simms Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Seattle
I am somewhat irritated about some of the replies I have gotten here and as private messages. I am really mad that some priests and lay people at the Church I go to have placed a higher importance on the Sacraments then on sexual abuse.

I would give up any sacraments to avoid being sexual abused. It's not worth the trade. Baptism, Confession, Communion...are all completly illrelavent when your being raped.

Stop the abuse first and then start the sacraments. I wouldn't mind being Baptised but not by anyone who thinks it's more important then sexual abuse.

Sean Simms

_________________________
"When you are Real you can't be ugly. People who think you are ugly just don't understand."
-the Velveteen Rabbit

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#77366 - 10/01/04 10:29 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Sean,

I'm guessing from what you've said that you've not gone through confirmation as a child or as an adult throught the RCIA program?

Although I was raised a protestant mutt (Baptist, Pentecostal, among others), I did convert after I got married because I wanted to participate as a family with my children and (now ex) wife. They interestingly enough accepted my baptism as a child in a Baptist church (one requirement is that you must be Baptised) and then went through the RCIA class. I became Catholic about 10 years ago and thought it was the right church for me.

Since then, much has changed, noteably, I've broken the sacrament of marriage by getting divorced. I no longer feel welcome there and have since then found a small church that is basically run by some ex Catholic and Anglican priests.

They do not make any stipulations or requirements on anyone about who can receive communion, for example.

I'd be happy to have some more in-depth discussions with you about the Catholic Church if you'd like, just PM me. If you want to join the Catholic Church, that is great, I'd just suggest you do some investigation and find out what they really believe and stand for.

Not focusing on sexual abuse by priests is one piece of the puzzle Sean. There's much more.....


Peace to you.


Jimmer


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#77367 - 10/01/04 11:06 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6838
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Sean,

while it is true that some priests have abused, it is not a common issue among priests.

I have met a lot of priests in my life and also missionaries who give up their lives to become messengers of God, and really are so much so good people.

I don't know what job you do, but imagine you are a burger shop operative, and it came out, that there where abusers among burger shop operatives, then how would you feel?

I know, that it is hard, when I was a kid, I really thought so much about a priest who I thought was so good, but somehow I lost my trust in him for reasons I won't go into here, but most of the men of the cloth are OK, they are not there to abuse kids.

It must be really hard being, say a priest, who has never abused a kid, to be put into the situation where parents think that priests are abusers, because the the vast majority are not.

The truth is that most abuse is carried out not by ministers, but by other people outside the faith, but even one abuse, by anybody is, as you know too much to bear, the kid lives through the abuse no matter what. If the abuser is someone they thought they could trust then so much worse it is for the victim, as they trusted this person to protect them.

I would imagine trust goes straight out of the window, but hey, I was attacked by a nutter who raped me in front of my little brother. I can never get out of the shame and humiliation of what happened that day.

I still live with the shame and disgust of thinking it was my fault, and feeling like a filthy piece of shit, something to be used and abused, I use the word thing, because it is all I ever knew, thingy, oddball, freak, you name it, all the names and many more where there.

Just a piece of meat for the abuser, but then again, at the age it happened to me, I thought it happened all the time, until I saw my friends being the kids they were meant to be, I soon realised that he must have thought I was so sexy to him, and spent my whole life wondering. WHY?

I have to live with it now

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#77368 - 10/02/04 09:59 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Sean Simms Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Seattle
Let's get this straight. Over 1,200 priests have been reported as sexual abusers in the Catholic Chuch. That's about one in ten priests. In the Santa Fe area it was one in three. Imagine how many have never been caught because there victims are to afraid to confront them or maybe have committed suicide because of all the shame they feel? The numbers of abusers could be two or three thousand. The number of victims in the tens of thousands.

What is worse is that the Catholic Church, including the Pope himself, conspired to cover this up. (I know priests in the Santa Fe who have explained how this happened and about the Pope being behind it) So I am very pissed off at anyone who refuses to acknowledge these facts.

Sean

_________________________
"When you are Real you can't be ugly. People who think you are ugly just don't understand."
-the Velveteen Rabbit

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#77369 - 10/02/04 10:08 PM Re: Catholics and abuse...rejoining the church (Triggers)
Sean Simms Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/03/02
Posts: 90
Loc: Seattle
Jimrh,

your mailbox is full. I would like to talk to you more about this topic. Give me a PM,

thanks,
Sean Simms

_________________________
"When you are Real you can't be ugly. People who think you are ugly just don't understand."
-the Velveteen Rabbit

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