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#76936 - 06/29/03 02:36 PM Is it bad???
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
I was wondering since we have alot of Religies people in this board. If you masterbeat to thoughs that you would never act on does it make you evil? I mean does it make it a sin? What does the bible say about things like this. I mean if I masterbeat to the thoughs of cheaping on my wife with a man even though I would never do it does it mean that I have sinned?


lots of love, Nathan


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#76937 - 06/29/03 08:23 PM Re: Is it bad???
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Nathan:

This doesn't address masturbation as much as the thots that would go with them. Whether or not this
is evil or a sin is a matter of opinion of course.

But since you ask what the Bible says about it...

Matthew Chapter 5 Verse 28: "But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

How people choose to apply this is up to them, but
this is what it says...

LYLAB Nathan

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#76938 - 06/29/03 09:46 PM Re: Is it bad???
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Nathan,

I have some strong thoughts and deep feelings about this.
I don't think self pleasure is a sin. I would wonder, if a person has a partner, why one would prefer to have sex with a "ghost" rather than a live person?
I have had partners before, but I am currently unattached, and therefore, one of the things i have been working on in the pleasure department, is staying away from "fantasy". I try to experience the moment and focus on the sensations and feelings of the here and now. What harm is there in that? I don't subscribe to the notion that sex is for procreation only, and at the age of 50 I don't feel one iota of guilt at losing an opportunity to further the proliferation of the human race. There are enough young bunnies out there eager enough to do that.

If I had a partner, I would do the same thing. If the partner was someone I was committed to, I would feel guilty about thinking about having sex with someone else while I was committed to developing more and deeper intimacy with the other person. For me, it is not a matter of what the bible says, but is more based on the covenant understanding that I would have with my partner. While I value all of the great leaders in the "Spiritual Hall of Fame", I don't think that any of them said sex is bad or masterbation is bad. Oh yeah, there's that pesky prohibition in Leviticus about spilling your seed on the ground, but there is also the prohibition against eating pork and a whole lot of other "rules" in the Bible that moral law makers have bent and broken to suit their particular brand of religious rhetoric.
Still, I think that no matter what religion you subscribe to, this thing about having sex with someone in your mind while you are promised to another boils down to pure-D bonafide deceit. Can I get a "Hallelujah" brothers? I spent many many years unhappy in relationships because of the guilt that ensued as a result of my being abused. In my mind I objectified many of my "ghosts", until I began to realize that the fantasies were living ME. I didn't like that realization. As long as I was clinging to the notion that these fantasy relationships were delicious, I was powerless to begin to understand how it happened that I decided to choose the scenarios that I dredged up in my imagination.
My life has become about creating as much authenticity or honesty as I can; first with myself, and then with others. This isn't just in the sexual pleasure department. I firmly believe that the best gift that I can give to the world and to my self is the gift given with the most pure of intentions ["pure" not in the sense of sex, but in the sense that no hidden agenda is driving my vehicle].
This is such a complex issue, and I am not sure if anything that I have typed is helpful to you. All I know is that if it were not for MS, I would not even be having this monologue in reality. I value the opportunity to speak what is in my heart about this difficult subject.

Thanks, Nathan,

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#76939 - 06/30/03 11:26 AM Re: Is it bad???
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Nathan:

I think that masturbation is something that every child generally experiences on their own. At least those that have not been abused. I started it when I overheard other boys talking about it. What a rush it gave me.

Unfortunately it became, because of what happened to me the only souce of pleasure I was able to have during my early years.


I think that maybe just maybe because it starts with the wakening of sexuality in us that we may do it to bring back the little hurt child in ourselves and let him be free.

Maybe this is totally wrong but it is just my thoughts on the issue.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#76940 - 06/30/03 02:11 PM Re: Is it bad???
godsrabbit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 98
i do not think it is wrong to say that mike...

i think we turn to masturbation for self-comfort...i had a chronic problem in this area for years...especially when i was being abused: using masturbation as a means of trying to wear myself down so as not to be suceptible to the advances of my abuser...it did not work though i nearly tore all the skin off trying...for four years i spent every day thinking about when i could get away for three minute alone just to do this...it was a desperately shameful time for me...

i do not do it anymore...not in five years...though i still get sexually aroused, it is more often a negative experience and i have no compulsion to masturbate (that is perhaps not true...the compulsion is there, i just do not act on it)...

like many self-started coping mechanisms, it provides self-gratification, but does not solve the underlying problem....best not to fixate on the "sinfulness" or "evil" of it, but to focus energy instead on more positive outlets...


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#76941 - 06/30/03 04:35 PM Re: Is it bad???
horseboy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 17
Loc: nowhereland
Post moved to UDF by moderator Wuamei aka Victor
in keeping with the following guidelines:

Sexual Identity Issues
The issue of how to deal with sexual identity including our homosexual feelings is extremely complex – and many of us hold strong views which conflict with views held by others. In order to keep this survivor's site safe and supportive we ask that trigger issues be discussed in the UDF
Trigger Issues
Cultural and religious views about the origin or nature of one's sexual/affectional orientation
The negative ways sexual minorities (gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgendered folks) are portrayed, perceived and treated by others in society or by the law
dealing with feelings about our own or other's sexual orientation

Victor

_________________________
The Lord doesn't aid the mighty battalions, He aids the one that is the best shot.

Voltaire.

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