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#76910 - 05/23/03 01:13 PM Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
JonathanKhonsu Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 72
Loc: PA
I whanted to post a question on one of the bords. It was about how has peoples veiws of religion changed or something like that. The reson is that I'm in this bible study in church and we are studying where god is when bad things happen. someone braught up the question of SA and the book that we were using its answeres seemed so not realistic.

I would takeout all usernames in the study.

I don't know. I want other peoples input for an answer, not just my own or some book writtian by some cluless person.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The book's name that we were using was Where is God When Bad things Happen.

I would really like any feed back.

So I guess my question is : Where is God when Bad things happen (spicificly SA)? And, how has the SA changed your (and any family or freinds) veiws of a Higher Power?

_________________________
"Ave atque Vale"

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#76911 - 05/23/03 01:34 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
zadok1 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/05/02
Posts: 188
Loc: Ohio
getting into a religious topic among survivors is hard. i have gotten asked this many times, and the bottom line is that not all evil has anything to do with God or Satan. Men have freewill, and are very able to do both good and evil totally on thier own. the bible tells us that God created us for his pleasure, to be a family to him. Look to your own family as an example. would you want your kids to be mindless minions totally under your control? would you force them to love you, or kill one of them because they did something evil? God calls himself our father for a reason, because we are his children. he wants what's best for all of us, but we also have some freedom in that. we can choose to do some very bad things, by our own freewill, and God has nothign to do with those choices. i was abused, i know the pain of it, but i also understand that the one who abused me was a brother, a child of God. what if he was struck dead for it? all chance at repenting and changing is instantly taken from him. he will forever be damned because of a evil deed, never having the chance to change. we cant see the overall plan, what if that moment torments them and drives them to God and deliverance? what if the abuse drives the child to the same things, as it did me? God never promised that no evil would come to us. in fact he says the total opposite, that they would, but he promises that if we cling to him, he would make a way for us to get through. God didnt leave us while we were being abused. Men abused us, by thier own freewill, not God. sorry i get fired up sometimes..jeff

_________________________
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those that are evil, but because of those who do nothing about them- Albert Einstein

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#76912 - 05/23/03 02:01 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
James_dup1 Offline


Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
For years I didn't believe in God. I couldn't count the number of times I laid in my room in the dark, hearing my step father's car pull in and closing my eye's crying and prayed to God that it would be tonight, please God just one night off please. It never worked, on the night I prayed it seemed that it was worst. Ofcourse it may not have been, maybe it was because I was more aware of it. I've slowly started to change my views of God. I still have problem's in this area, I wonder all the time, "if there is a God and he is a loving God and he is all powerful, then why didn't he stop him?" "if God "loves" the little children then why doesnt he protect them?" I've started to see now that he did protect me, I'm alive to tell my story. Which may at some point help just one person, if by me telling my story it can help just one person not hurt any more then my life will have ment something. Now dont get me wrong, I still have a lot of questions for when I die and stand in front of him. But I guess to your question. Before I started my recovery I hated God I figured he hated me, now I am slowly starting to see the things he does/has done in my life to show me he loves me. Just as a kid living in the abuse I couldn't see it. I wanted him to make my step father stop all together, instead he let me live, gave me a voice, gave me the courage to use that voice, let me find this place, and also helped me find my best friend (I meet him here). I hope this helps with your study.

_________________________
I have more issues than Rolling Stone!


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#76913 - 05/23/03 03:20 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I have pondered this for a lifetime. I loved him, hated him, blamed him, ridiculed him and found him again.

I think, personally that he treats us with benign neglect most of the time. He has given us the freedom of choice and it is up to us to decide what choices we make.

There is also fate. But even with evil things happening to us we still have choices. To succumb or survive or heal.

That is his/her/its greatest gift to us. Freedom of Choice. And the power to put the choices into action.

A young member of our wolf pack was on the point of death a while ago and I went to church again and to mass. I may be catholic but I believe I can speak to god without an intermediary. I told him about my little brother and asked for some help and made a committment that I will keep if god only answers me. Shortly thereafter my little brother wolf started to breath on his own again and he is now home and here and much healthier for it.

Was this gods intervention. I honestly do not know. Or did God allow my choices to intercede on my brothers behalf. Again I dont know. What I do know is that my committment is to fullfill my part of the bargain.

I do not have to go to church to talk with or about god. I think that whatever god is it resides in all of us. There if we want God or again benign if we choose not to.

Now that I have thoroughly confused both you and myself I will stop.

Hope it helps \:D

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#76914 - 05/23/03 04:45 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
Les_Angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 195
There was a really good string on this subject in the unmoderated forum, I think it might be usefull for your study:

http://www.malesurvivor.org/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=26;t=000026

Peace
MO Healing


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#76915 - 05/23/03 07:35 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
al Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 143
Loc: canada
Two traveling angels stopped to spend the night in the home of a wealthy family. The family was rude and refused to let the angels stay in the mansion's guest room. Instead, the angels were given a small space in the cold basement. As they made their bed on the hard floor, the older angel saw a hole in the wall and repaired it.

When the younger angel asked why, the older angel replied, "Things aren't always what they seem."

The next night the pair came to rest at the house of a very poor, but very hospitable farmer and his wife. After sharing what little food they had, the couple let the angels sleep in their bed where they could have a good night's rest.

When the sun came up the next morning, the angels found the farmer and his wife in tears. Their only cow, whose milk had been their sole income, lay dead in the field. The younger angel was infuriated and asked the older angel how he could have let this happen. "The first man had everything, yet you helped him," the young angel said. "The second family had little but was willing to share everything, and you let the cow die."

"Things aren't always what they seem," the older angel replied.

"When we stayed in the basement of the mansion, I noticed there was gold stored in the hole in the wall. Since the owner was so obsessed with greed and unwilling to share his good fortune, I sealed the wall so he wouldn't find it.

"Then last night as we slept in the farmer's bed, the angel of death came for his wife. I gave him the cow instead. Things aren't always what they seem."

~~~ Author Unknown

_________________________
Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music. Mark Kleiman

Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. Winston Churchill

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#76916 - 05/25/03 06:34 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Jonathan:

Thanks for starting this thot-provoking thread!

Thanks also to all who have added to it already.

The questions of where was God when we were sexually abused & why bad things happen to good/innocent people, as well as how bad things/SA
changes our views of God/a Higher Power and of our
religion & our lives...

Such controversial questions, as is the nature of religion (and politics!).

Yet such vital questions, perhaps some of the key questions particularly in a Religion forum for SA survivors.

For this reason as forum moderator I'm making this
thread, at least for the time being, a feature topic, in the hopes that more people will take notice, read, add, & respond as they are able & willing to.

As long as everyone continues to be sincere, sensible & sensitive in this thread it should continue to be very productive.

Thanks to all of you & thank you Jonathan!

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#76917 - 05/25/03 09:23 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
KleinerSpatz Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/12/03
Posts: 15
Loc: BRD
There are many stories in the bible, and even more about saints that walk among the abused of the earth. Many of them, full of wisdom and compasion.

Stories, fairytales, myths. There is nothing wrong with them.

But I think somewhere or sometime, god, the saints or whatever you choose to hold valuable, got tired of cleaning up mans mess.

These is very little to remind you of the devine, on the street, at a corner or railwaystation at night.

I read somewhere here on this forum, the line: "the light under the door"

on one of those nights, for me, I think god died, or he left , I don't know.

_________________________
Die Gedanken sind Frei!

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#76918 - 05/25/03 10:45 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
I wonder about my relationship with God. I think God was allowing the perp to exercise his own free will during the abuse. Perhaps I was protected by not being with the perp on some particular night, or something else I don't know about. See Al's post above for what I mean.

Did the SA itself change my beliefs? I can't say for sure. There was so much other abuse and dysfunction before I was raped, that I couldn't pin any attitude on just that.

I have never felt that God abandoned me. In the worst of my acting out, I mean literally finding myself in the gutter, that sort of thing, I felt I had turned away from God by abusing myself when I knew it was wrong. I guess the fact that I beat the odds and survived tells me that God has kept watch on me, and has some other plan for me besides an overdose or something.

You have me thinking about a lot of things now, should I be angry with God (it won't hurt Him anyway, right?), did I or will I gain enough from having survived that I might be able to forgive Him if I did get angry, etc. I need to mull those questions for a while.

Thanks for getting me started.

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#76919 - 05/29/03 09:20 PM Re: Survey: Veiws on HP (higher power)
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
How has SA changed your views of a Higher Power/God?

For a long time I saw God as either nonexistent, noncaring, absent, or even downright abusive.

My God-hating authority-hating incestuous narcisstic mother taught me that becuz she tried to be along with everything else my Higher Power. To me anything or anyone with power or authority over me was abusive. Period.

Even as I have moved from atheist to agnostic to Christian (about 25 years ago), I have still struggled with these kinds of feelings tho they no longer fit my beliefs and my thinking.

Where is God when bad things happen (specifically SA)?

When I started remembering the SA a couple years ago, it was easy for me to wonder why God hadn't stopped that along with the physical & emotional abuse that I had never forgotten.

That is I wondered why in my feelings. In my thinking I believed & still believe, more than ever, that God was there but that He allows people
free will with which to do good or evil. The people I should have been able to trust the most all abused me. That was not God's fault. Had God not been there, as in other times in my life, I'm convinced I would not be a survivor today. I would not be alive.

I'd rather be alive.

I believe God lovingly made me in His image, my true self which has been messed up by among other things the SA. He is lovingly trying to help me become that person, my real best eternal self.

What I believe & what I still feel sometimes are still two different things.

But I know what I believe and I'm learning to feel it more & more.

This is not easy to articulate but that's kinda where I'm at.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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