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#76603 - 08/13/02 10:18 PM cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
fhorns Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/10/02
Posts: 690
I am a Christian, mostly in between a conservative and liberal mindset. But I want to learn more about God. Mike Lew made the point that incest is not about sex, but power. Trust of God isn't easy.
I want a more accurate view of God, but yesterday I got a hard message--"Your feelings God doesn't care about". But that wasn't the main message. The main message was "if the Bible doesn't speak about it, it isn't true". Like everything is evil that isn't explicitly stated. I grew angry and frustrated with him, but found myself wanting to pursue more knowledge. I found much hatred in my heart at the end of the day, with resentment getting me until 3 in the morning when I read a "let go and let God" message in Al-Anon's Courage to Change. Still, I want to know God cares!!!!!!


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#76604 - 08/14/02 02:21 AM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 23
I used to be an athiest, and I felt like there wasn't a God, and if there was I was mad at him. I couldn't understand how he could let us suffer. But now I know he makes it all o.k. in the end. Life is kind of like a big test. The Apostles asked about suffering:

John 9:2-3
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.

Luke 16:20-25
There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz'arus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. ... now he is comforted

I think most of us have to play Lazarus sometimes in life, and most of us play the rich man at other times. By me and you playing Lazarus, we are giving the chance to the rich men of the world who dine sumptuously to throw us the scraps from their table, or even to seat us at the place of honor.

The hard part for me is not playing Lazarus but reaching out as the rich man when I get the chance. When other people play Lazarus to our rich man we are being tested. But the important thing in the end is that God makes it all better and comforts us in the end. I try to be patient. It is not the degree of suffering, but our attitude about suffering that counts.

I used to work at a beach and we had to go out and play the drowning victim sometimes so others could practice saving us. You and I have to be patient while the others prove themselves. and then it will be our turn.


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#76605 - 08/14/02 02:22 AM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
Ross Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 34
Loc: Vancouver, BC Canada
Hi fhorns:

I can appreciate how you are feeling, I have been angry for most of my life. As a victim of abuse by Catholic Clergy I have had many struggles with the issue of God and where I am at with Him. I believe very much that God cares about our feelings and us as individuals, I mean if he is there, and I believe he is, he gave us feelings and emotions. If he did not care why did Jesus weep for people? It is hard to grasp for me at times through the struggle life can be but I have found evidence of this caring both from reading the bible and in my own life. In my opinion whoever said God is not concerned about us or our feelings is mistaken. A couple of bible passages that have helped me are from the book of Psalms # 91 verses 14&15.

" Because he loves me, says the lord, I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name, he will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honour him."

I do not want to sound preachy in any way. My purpose is to support you fhorns. I get angry and sad too, especially about the issues that draw each of us to this site. As a fellow survivor I hope you will be ok. I really believe in my heart that God cares about us, including our feelings.

Hang in there!
Ross


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#76606 - 08/14/02 12:12 PM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Fellows,
I can understand that question about God and his seemingly impotent love for us at the time we most needed him.
Many of you know I am a catholic priest. I will not get into religious discussions here, that would just seem wrong to me.
However, just recently I read a book by John Walsh of America's most wanted. Title: TEARS OF RAGE. He speaks to this question in the book and I think that it is the best I ever heard. Your library probably has a copy. It is hard reading about the abduction and murder of John's 6 year old son Adam--and the way the police and FBI fought his efforts to get more help for missing children. But if you can do so, I really recommend the book for just this question of the problem of evil and the love of God.
Peace to you all
Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#76607 - 08/14/02 06:49 PM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
Dan01 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 18
Loc: S. California
Hi fhorns,
I can definately relate, how tuff it is to trust God. I went through many years of doughting Gods existance. I was furious if anyone mentioned God to me, I used to say to,if their really is a god how could he allow such horrible Evil and suffering to go on, especially to inocent little kids. It took me a long time to realize the whys and hows of God and how he fits into all this mess, and how evil is at work in our world.

One day when I was at the end of my rope I finally said OK god if your really their, I WANT TO KNOW!!! It was not long after that, I picked up a bible, someone had given me and started searching, One of the>

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#76608 - 08/14/02 07:45 PM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
jackjohn Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 23
Loc: Fallston, MD
Dan and Dean,

I respect your thoughts about religion. I would fight to the death to ensure that you would always have religeous freedom. However, I just can't buy the bible stuff and all the god love thing. There are ministers who preach we should fear god.

I have said before that my father was a priest. He left my brother, my mother and me to return to the priesthood. My brother and I were put in an orphanage run by the catholic church. After being there a year we were reunited with our mother and went to live with her parents. My uncle who still lived at home was a pedophile. I had to sleep with him for over 3 years. Every time he fucked me I would pray to god for help. I always fantasized that my father would come and rescue me. It never happened. I have always blamed my father because if he had not left me I would not have been abused. Well the point is I just can't accept the god love thing. Maybe someday.

Jack

_________________________
jackjohn

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#76609 - 08/14/02 11:52 PM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
Dan01 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 18
Loc: S. California
jackjohn,
I totally empathize with your feelings about God and religion. I certainly dont blame you for feeling that way. The things that you went through at the hands of others is detestable at worst and extremley selfish at best.
I agree that it is worst when people who "claim" they represent God do sinfull things it is inexcusable. It gives a Holy God a black eye (sort of speak). Jesus himself was very very harsh on the religious leaders of his time for being hipocrites. In another portion of>

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#76610 - 08/15/02 04:02 PM Re: cautiousness about discussing my Christianity
angry Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 23
I know how you feel Jack. When I was 15 I had a really bad asthma attack and as I was suffocating I cried out to God with all of my strength until I blacked out. I felt as if I knew there was no God because he didn't answer me and was a died in the wool athiest for 12 years. I think it's imposible to talk someone into believing. I think it's almost as imposible as writing a mathematical equation that could make any girl sleep with you. Jesus even felt the same way that we did when he cried out: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I thought it was really interesting when I found out he was quoting psalm 22, which is known as the cry of the righteous man. It was written about 1000 years before Jesus. I figure if your experiencing the same kind of things as Jesus, you must be doing something right Jack.

Psalm 22
[1] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Why art thou so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?
[2] O my God, I cry by day, but thou dost not answer; and by night, but find no rest.
[3] Yet thou art holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.
[4] In thee our fathers trusted; they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
[5] To thee they cried, and were saved; in thee they trusted, and were not disappointed.
[6] But I am a worm, and no man; scorned by men, and despised by the people.
[7] All who see me mock at me, they make mouths at me, they wag their heads;
[8] "He committed his cause to the LORD; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"
[9] Yet thou art he who took me from the womb;
thou didst keep me safe upon my mother's breasts.
[10] Upon thee was I cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me thou hast been my God.
[11] Be not far from me, for trouble is near
and there is none to help.
[12] Many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me;
[13] they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion.
[14] I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax, it is melted within my breast;
[15] my strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue cleaves to my jaws; thou dost lay me in the dust of death.
[16] Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet --
[17] I can count all my bones -- they stare and gloat over me;
[18] they divide my garments among them, and for my raiment they cast lots.
[19] But thou, O LORD, be not far off! O thou my help, hasten to my aid!
[20] Deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog!
[21] Save me from the mouth of the lion, my afflicted soul from the horns of the wild oxen!
[22] I will tell of thy name to my brethren;
in the midst of the congregation I will praise thee:
[23] You who fear the LORD, praise him! all you sons of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you sons of Israel!
[24] For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; and he has not hid his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him.
[25] From thee comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him.
[26] The afflicted shall eat and be satisfied;
those who seek him shall praise the LORD! May your hearts live for ever!
[27] All the ends of the earth shall remember
and turn to the LORD; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.
[28] For dominion belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.
[29] Yea, to him shall all the proud of the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and he who cannot keep himself alive.
[30] Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
[31] and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.


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