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#76296 - 12/13/06 04:07 PM Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
Nobbynobs Offline
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
From the forgiveness thread: Let's discuss this parable.

Matthew 18

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell."

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#76297 - 12/13/06 04:58 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
phoster Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
Loc: ohio
i love this. there is a lot there.

to begin we must become humble. if we are proud in ourselves or in things we will not have salvation. we must humble ourselves to His will, and stop living for our own.

we also see another refrence that not everyone in this world is his. in other parables he teaches of bad figs, tares, those that claim to be from God, but are not from God at all. they will cause many to fall through all sorts of means. do you realize only two churches in Revelations taught this, and that they were the only ones that Christ accepted? have you been taught that Satan has children in this world?

this also shows us that at judgment all of them will answer for the pain they inflict on us. they will suffer eternal death.

finally, we are warned here to be aware of our life. anything that we place before God offends. it might be the car you drive, sex or your wife that you hold higher than God. He teaches to put off those things that keep you from God.

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compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#76298 - 12/13/06 05:12 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
i dont understand ny of this

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#76299 - 12/13/06 05:12 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Posts: 2437
sorry ,i dont understand any of this

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#76300 - 12/13/06 05:42 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
Nobbynobs Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by phoster:
this also shows us that at judgment all of them will answer for the pain they inflict on us. they will suffer eternal death.

finally, we are warned here to be aware of our life. anything that we place before God offends. it might be the car you drive, sex or your wife that you hold higher than God. He teaches to put off those things that keep you from God.
2 very good points. For the first, I would add, "As we will suffer for the pain we inflict on others, unless we beg for their forgiveness. (and forgive others for the pain they have inflicted on us)"

For the second, I agree completely. The problem though is knowing when you are holding something higher than God. Pride is very sneaky and sometimes we cherish something, whether it is anger, or money, and feel that we are justified to do so because someone hurt us in the past or because we grew up poor. I know that I struggle daily with pride.

The millstone parable perplexes me though. I don't think Jesus is referring to children literally, but to humanity as the children of God. I also don't think he is referring to child molesters specifically. I think that he is referring to anyone who leads God's children into sin, whether they are a child molester, or a teacher or even a saint. And he is saying that the fate of those people, if they don't mend their ways and repent, is pretty awful. But, I would argue, the fate of the child who has fallen into sin is equally as unpleasant if they persist in a life of sin and don't redeem themselves.

I find it interesting that this parable is followed immediately by the parable of the lost sheep, which describes God's delight when a lost sinner is redeemed. We must never forget that everyone, including perps, receives God's grace and that he loves us all equally.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#76301 - 12/13/06 05:52 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
phoster Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
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a friend recently asked me what i could do to become closer to God. in examining my life, i know i should follow the health laws, and i wasnt. i knew i was sinning, and did so anyway, and that was keeping me from being as close to God as i could have been. i repented and started doing what i knew was right. i was sneaking into porn, and again the same thing. i dont think these things have to be firm. they are ever changing, and we must constantly evaluate our life for how we can serve and humble ourselves better.

i am quite sure the children Christ reffered to are any of His children. most lessons can be applied to the flesh, meaning flesh children, but also to the spirit meaning us, all of us.

upon repentance sin is washed away. it is blotted out like it never happened. if you repent when you hurt someone, i am not sure you are required to seek thier forgiveness, only forgiveness from God.

see, i realized long ago that if my perp went on through life without repenting, he would answer for it. if on the other hand he turned to God then he is no longer what he was when he abused me. he becomes a new person, and who am i to judge? at that point, if i expect to be forgiven for my sins, shouldnt i also be willing to forgive those that sinned against me?

i trust God, and i long ago left it in His hands. if Mat has repented and has God's forgiveness, he has mine as well.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#76302 - 12/13/06 06:02 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Posts: 2437
a child does not fall into sin! what have you done thats so terrible?

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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#76303 - 12/13/06 06:11 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
Nobbynobs Offline
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 1286
Loc: Toronto
Quote:
Originally posted by phoster:
upon repentance sin is washed away. it is blotted out like it never happened. if you repent when you hurt someone, i am not sure you are required to seek thier forgiveness, only forgiveness from God.
You are not required, but by seeking their forgiveness you save them from holding anger against you. In other (ie. the original) words, you are your brother's keeper.

_________________________
When you go up to the bell, ring it! Or don't go up to the bell.

- Mel Brooks

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#76304 - 12/13/06 06:13 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
phoster Offline
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Registered: 11/21/03
Posts: 758
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a flesh child has a cloke of innocence until he reaches an age of understanding. at that point he too is accountable for his actions, and can in fact fall into sin. certainly, we are God's children, all of us. some are very old, can they fall into sin? certainly they can.

what have i done? i was an adulterer. i was a liar. i have hated and i have lusted. i have sinned over and over. yet, i have also repented, had a change of heart. i am washed clean. i have sinned, but i am forgiven, and once more i am innocent and pure like a child.

_________________________
compassion is a light even to the darkest soul

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#76305 - 12/13/06 06:58 PM Re: Matthew 18 (the Millstone Parable)
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you
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Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
so let me get this straight,are you saying if the perp falls down on his knees and asks gods forgivness its like none of what he did ever happened? no if it works like that then i want no part of it. but i do believe you have explained why 90%of the holier than me people in this world have religon in their lives ,this is so crazy even a child could understand it !how cool is it to believe in a religon that says i can go out all week long and do whatever i damn well please even molest but all i have to do is go to church on sunday and i get a clean slate!because god loves me and forgives me? he knows im only human?! amazing

_________________________
its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

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