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#7543 - 04/22/03 11:49 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Richard Gartner, PhD Offline
Past President
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 404
Loc: New York, NY, USA
Just to clarify: when I said that "normal" is an idiotic term, I didn't mean that people who use it are idiotic. I think Mike and the rest of you understand that, but I wanted to be sure I said it. Mostly I think that people spend much painful energy trying to be "normal" when there is no such thing. We undercut our inner selves by doing that, and never feel comfortable in our own skins. None of us is immune to this process, I suppose, but the search for normality needs to be rooted out for the destructive myth it is.

_________________________
www.richardgartner.com

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#7544 - 04/23/03 12:28 AM Re: Sexual dreams???
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Richard,
I'm certain that everyone understood what you were saying. I also thoroughly appreciated reading you last post. You make some excellent points. When we try to conform to our concept of "normal" we end up placing a lot of pressure on ourselves to achieve this. And usually we find ourselves in a state of distress when we do this. But as a survivor of SA it often leaves you feeling that you are on the outside of society looking in on everyone else. And when this happens you are extremely prone to living your life in terms of what is "normal".
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#7545 - 04/23/03 12:22 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
"normal" is just a word I use to describe where I would like to be.

I know some 'normal' people, and I don't want to be where they are for sure ! ;\)

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#7546 - 04/23/03 09:15 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Dave I agree bro!

Actually I feel kinda sorry for "normal" people.

I mean, they're so "normal."

What's the fun in that!


Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#7547 - 04/24/03 12:04 AM Re: Sexual dreams???
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
you know, a year ago I don't think I could have had a conversation about being "normal". I was still trying to be "normal". I just wasn't ready to accept myself for who I am.

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#7548 - 04/24/03 06:49 AM Re: Sexual dreams???
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Mike:

Good for you, bro!

"Someone" who is trying to accept oneself for who one is. Hmmm, not a bad definition of normal, my friend!

Sure beats trying to be someone you're not & can't
be. I see plenty of "normal" people doing that all
the time.

For me, being a survivor has meant self-acceptance, self-love as opposed to trying to be who my mother, my perps, my family, society, etc.
seemed to be saying I was supposed to be.

Sure self-acceptance is hard for me as for many of us survivors. But finally, rejecting myself & trying to be other than me has become even harder.
Especially when I realized I wasn't rejecting my true self but what others had tried to make of me.

As Shakespeare wrote, "To thine own self be true."

Mike my man you're really onto something here!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#7549 - 04/24/03 11:00 AM Re: Sexual dreams???
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Vic,
I'm not on to anything, you are. This thread is becoming very thought provoking.

Quote:
Sure self-acceptance is hard for me as for many of us survivors. But finally, rejecting myself & trying to be other than me has become even harder.
Especially when I realized I wasn't rejecting my true self but what others had tried to make of me.
When you first a commitment to live according to your true self it is bloody hard. It means you are making a commitment to reality and not someone elses. I think it upsets your whole world and whole world view. But I think as time goes on it becomes much easier. If you're willing to sacrifice some hardship now the future will be much more pleaserable. And, who knows, maybe that means you become much more normal \:\) .

"To thine own self be true."

mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#7550 - 04/24/03 03:27 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
When you first a commitment to live according to your true self it is bloody hard. It means you are making a commitment to reality and not someone elses. I think it upsets your whole world and whole world view.
Yes, it has upset my world & world view. Or rather
it has upset the world & the view of it imposed on
me by my perps & by others. Scary, becuz that has been so familiar to me, comfortably numbing. Now I'm in a shift out of the Twilight Zone of
"others" into my own reality, living in my own world & forming my own healthy world view. But yes
it is bloody hard! Then again so was trying to fulfill the realities of others for me!

Quote:
But I think as time goes on it becomes
much easier. If you're willing to sacrifice some hardship now the future will be much more pleaserable. And, who knows, maybe that means you become much more normal \:\) .
Yes I believe that, the struggles I'm having right
now notwithstanding.

As to becoming more normal, yes I'm working on trying to accept myself for who I am.

So right now I'm kinda enjoying being crazy!

Act crazy or go crazy, that's my life's philosophy! And like the man says, "To thine own self be true."

Hey you know those would make pretty cool tag
lines!...

Thanks Mike!

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#7551 - 04/24/03 04:55 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
I think I forgot a word in there. It should have said "When you first MAKE a commitment to live according to your true self it is bloody hard." I think my mind was thinking faster than what my fingers could type :p .

Quote:
Act crazy or go crazy, that's my life's philosophy!
Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk...Here's to being "normal."

And thank you, Vic. This was interesting discussion.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#7552 - 04/24/03 06:26 PM Re: Sexual dreams???
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Mike

Quote:
I was still trying to be "normal". I just wasn't ready to accept myself for who I am.
Got it !!!!

Somedays I'm a genius (rarely ) and on others I f**k up, ( more often ) so accepting that is "my normality"

Dave \:D

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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