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#7516 - 09/22/01 02:00 AM sans me
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA



Sans me

I hate enmeshment – it is the hell I lived in all my childhood with my fucking mother. I was never taught boundaries in my home, and I was her little special kid upon whom she heaped abusive emotional enmeshment. She had no boundaries.

So how the fuck was I supposed to learn boundaries in my own life. I didn't have them and every relationship was blurred – like I needed glasses to even begin to see anyone else clearly – just a fucking blur – full of never figuring out what I wanted for me, from my friends, from my parents, from my brother and sisters, from a mate – so I did not fucking exist – it was always in this blurred state, uncomfortable, needy, fixer of other people's problems – but never knowing where I was – what I wanted – what I needed – what made me happy or secure or feel good about myself – always lost – always scared deep down inside – with no direction or chance at finding meaning in my life –

And what really pisses me off is that I lived my entire life in this morass making fucked choices and fucked relationships and surrounding myself with enmeshment – reinforcing the daily serve my fucking mother attitude sans me.

And now, that I can begin to see it and all of the suffering it has caused to me and to my children (I was a terrible father – loving – concerned – boundaryless – depressed, with blurred vision) – I began to try to correct it – to find out who I am – what I wanted – how I wanted to be with my children and with others – learning to stop and remember my weakness and decide what was right.

But it just surrounds me – I made horrible choices in mates – the mother of my children is the mother of me – enmeshing – resentful – ready to undercut me – hateful because the person she married was controlling – distrustful – unable to be real or let her in on a personal level – and she was an abused needy boundaryless bitch like my mother! I chose her from the depths of my confusion -

Tonight I tried to make plans with her about the kids and we made an agreement that I would see them at certain times – and when each of them baulked at it – I said no – the plan is this – and they got belligerent and their mother caved in and let them control the plan – and she completely left me hanging there –

What is worse about it is that she wants it this way. I support her religiously in co-parenting and setting limits – because I know the kids need it – and she blows it off when it comes to me connecting with them – and she knows what she is doing – and I have to back down in order not to triangulate further and I hate it because I feel controlled again She is a manipulating bitch who would raise the tension level in geometric proportions and become totally unreasonable – and the kids have started to use those techniques – and all the careful work I have done to mitigate the wake of our splituation – the horrible damaging horror that we created – feels like nothing.

The careful work on my self to back off and look at my own boundaries and what I want for myself gets flushed in the deadly power game she plays with me – I am hopelessly triggered.

I HATE IT BECAUSE THERE IS NO ME! I FEEL ABUSED ALL OVER AGAIN – AND MY INNER CHILD FEELS ABUSED – AND MY CHILDREN ARE BEING ABUSED – AND MY CHILDREN ARE LEARNING TO ABUSE ME! FUCK THIS BITCH – FUCK BOTH THESE BITCHES –

I have to learn from this – I have to not expect her to cooperate – I have to create my own space with these kids that doesn't depend on her – I have to regain control of my relationship with them separate from her and to protect myself from her like I could not protect myself from my stupid mother.

It is so hard – I don't know how to do it – I don't have the tools to be clear – I walk into the enmeshment because I must like it – I am so mad at myself –

And if I post this you will all know that I am not so together after all – just a spineless ineffective quivering nothing – sans eyes, sans nose, sans teeth, sans hair – sans everything!

_________________________
"..this place isn't a discussion forum..it's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

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#7517 - 09/22/01 09:18 AM Re: sans me
RJD Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/01
Posts: 326
Loc: jefferson City, Mo,usa
WOW THAD !
SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE PUT YOUR RAGE TO GOOD USE STRENGTHENING YOUR ACQUIRED BOUNDARIES. WHAT CLARITY IN YOUR EXPRESSIVENESS.
WHAT YOU DESCRIBE IS MY LIFE TOO RIGHT UP TO THE BRICK WALL( YOUR WIFE). HERE I GOT LUCKY AND FOUND MYSELF WITH A MATE WHO HAD THE CAPACITY TO SEE HER BEHAVIOR AND WORK ON CHANGE. I HAD MY OWN MOUNTAIN TO MOVE IN MY PERSONAL WORK. MORE THAN ONE OF MY FRIENDS HAVE BEEN, OR ARE, IN YOUR SITUATION. ONE OF THEM RECENTLY (AFTER 10 YEARS [?] OF DIVORCE WAS APPROACHED BY HIS WIFE WHO APOLOGISED. AN OTHER FRIEND'S RELATIONSHIP JUST SEEMED TO DETERIORATE INTO WILD ACCUSATIONS. YET ANOTHER FRIEND HAS HAD TO WAIT UNTIL HIS CHILDREN BECAME ADULTS, BUT STILL THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS AT BEST IFFY.
WHAT PROFOUND PAINFUL LOSSES FOR ALL OF YOU. THE LOVE YOU HAVE TO GIVE IS TREATED WITH CONTEMPT AS ARE YOU.
IN ALL MY FRIENDS TRIALS, BOUNDRY MAINTAINANCE WAS AN EXCRUCIATING STRUGGLE. IN THAT THERE WAS ALSO THE STRUGGLE TO KEEP MOTHER ISSUES OUT OF THE QUAGMIRE. FROM WHAT I SAW IN THEM AND HEAR IN YOU IT IS A HEROIC STRUGGLE. BLESS YOU FOR THE LOVE YOU HAVE IN YOUR HEART AS EVIDENCED BY YOUR ANGER. IF YOU DIDN'T CARE YOU WOULDN'T BE IN THIS STRUGGLE.
I HAVE HEARD THAT ANGER IS A PROTECTIVE EMOTION AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS THE GOOD OF ANGER. WHEN, HISTORICALY, WE HAVE BEEN FACE TO FACE WITH A SABER TOOTHED TIGER WE EITHER RUN LIKE HELL, FREEZE (GO NUMB) OR FIGHT LIKE HELL, ALL THESE ARE COPING SKILLS WHEN WE FACE OUR TERROR.

-------- BE GENTLE WITH YOURSELF

[ September 22, 2001: Message edited by: RJD ]


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#7518 - 09/22/01 10:44 AM Re: sans me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thad,

Yikes!!!

I agree with RJD....this post is actually a pretty important piece of work. Knowing you to be the on-top-of-it-most-of-the-time intellectual, I commend you for bypassing your head and pulling this stuff up from your gut. It makes the situation pretty clear.

The part of your post that sounds pretty empowering to me is
Quote:
I have to learn from this – I have to not expect her to cooperate – I have to create my own space with
these kids that doesn’t depend on her – I have to regain control of my relationship with them separate
from her and to protect myself from her like I could not protect myself from my stupid mother.


It sounds to me as though you've gone to cooperation route for the benefit of your kids, but that their mother isn't supporting you in the same way that you are supporting her when it comes to their welfare. This, of course, is difficult for both of you because when kids are involved THEY have opinions and that's yet another (unpredictable) variable. As you know, most typical kids do a fair amount of jerking their parents around and - in cases where their parents are separated - playing them one against the other. I don't even think that most of this is planned or even thoughtfully done....they, like you, are trying to find their boundaries....and pushing against the ones their parents have set. Messy stuff.

After a night's sleep, I hope that you can step back and not be so hard on yourself, Thad. You know that you have done a lot of healing work and it isn't all linear, of course. Also, it has been my experience that there are setbacks.... This stuff is like navigating a mine field. But you have come many miles on this path, and this is just a tree that has fallen in front of you. Use your anger to saw through it, clear it, and keep moving forward.

Know that we're all here on the path with you. Lean on us a bit until you regain your strength.

Don


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#7519 - 09/22/01 11:31 AM Re: sans me
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Thad,

Sometimes I feel the same way. I think you're on the right track when you said that you can't let your ex's behaviours rule your relationship with your children. My wife and I are still together, well we live in the same house anyway. I have a similar problem of constantly having to defend her actions and reactions to my youngest daughter. My oldest daughter doesn't like me very much because I've refused to continue to support her, her husband and their daughter, they need to stand on their own. My wife continually undermines any of my efforts to wean them of our support. I gladly give my daughter any kind of moral support, advise (if she asks for it), help her with her education, etc. I'm tired of financially supporting my adult daughter and her husband wheb they don't want to provide for themselves, think they deserve to have everything that I have worked hard for all my life and won't curtail any expense when it's not their money.

Well that was a good bit of venting.

When I don't feel very good about myself I let other people reinforce those feelings.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#7520 - 09/22/01 06:00 PM Re: sans me
Anonymous
Unregistered


Steve,

Right on!

Don


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