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#75110 - 09/30/05 11:32 PM wonderful article
willtobecomplete Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 51
Loc: IL
Hey Guys, hope you are doing great! Here is an awsomely written article on protecting your children from CSA. It came out in one of the most widley circulated international magazines in the world called AWAKE. It is a bible based magazine and does have some references to the bible when discussing the history of sexual abuse. All in all very good information! It is nice to know that there are orginizations that speak up in a big way about many of the horrible realities we face in the world today.

Enjoy

http://www.watchtower.org

_________________________
"Him....who is healing all your maladies. Who is reclaiming your life from the very pit" Ps 103:3-4

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#75111 - 10/01/05 12:25 AM Re: wonderful article
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
I would suggest that there are other resources that we can find that can teach us how to protect our kids that don't include such offensive text as:
Quote:
Clearly they had already been introduced to homosexual perversions
. CSA is not a homosexual perversion. I hope anyone who reads this post or follows the link understands that. In fact, the link provided is a Jehovah's Witness religious rant. You have to click on a second link to get to the protect your kids part.

If you want to learn to protect your kids without religion attached, look for a book called No More Secrets. We read it with my daughter, she got the point and no minority groups were insulted in the process. Peace - John


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#75112 - 10/01/05 02:33 AM Re: wonderful article
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Yes, John, I would agree. In a sense this seems to be, "preaching to the choir," as most of us have taken precautions with our own children.
I don't want to offend you, wtbc, but I think that, while you may mean well, some of us are the victims of clergy abuse and the many references to the bible can be triggering.
I have asked our leadership to take a look, as well.
You certainly have a right, and maybe even a privilege, to express your religious views or preferences here on MS's site, but for now, I ask for your patience while some of us get a chance to review your post.

Thank you,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#75113 - 10/01/05 08:36 AM Re: wonderful article
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I have to say that although I am a Christian myself, I did not like this article much. It has a lot of good ideas, yes, but they are accessed through a very thick Jehovah's Witness prism. The subtext is of course that Christianity is "the way", and there are other things like the imminent end of the world and so on.

As to the content on CSA, the facts are there but presented in a way that could be very frightening to children. And a few crucial things are missing. I did not see, for example, any emphasis on the fact that kids are most often hurt by people they know; this article still seems to follow, at least implicitly, the old "stranger danger" scenario for the most part.

But my main reservation is that I take this article to be about religious advocacy in the first instance, and about public awareness on CSA only second. My own view is that when you are trying to deal with the crucial question of how to protect your kids, you need straight, professional well-presented information and not something that is mainly suggesting that you are following the wrong religion.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#75114 - 10/01/05 07:14 PM Re: wonderful article
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY
I didn't know it at the time, but I really only had one good, selfless, honest friend when I was in high school.

Noel was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. He was very conflicted about some of the tenets of his religion, but he had unshakeable moral and ethical standards and never, ever had a bad word about anyone.

We used to have hours long conversations about life, the universe, religion, God, and what the hell was going on in the world (the late 1960's.)

Beyond all that, Noel drew me out of my shell in countless ways and made me feel that I mattered. If it wasn't for him, I never would have asked Penny to the prom, or done many of the things in high school that made those years bearable. I guess I'd honestly have to say that he was my first therapist.

And so what? Well, I don't want willtoebcomplete to feel that he has done something wrong here. Maybe this reference could have put in the Spirituality forum, but just like every post in these forums, it is up to us to take what we like and leave the rest.

The ADDRESS takes you to the Watchtower home page, the LINK, when clicked on takes you to the CSA articles. The third page starts with this information,
Quote:
IT IS NOT the stranger in a trench coat, the loner lurking in the bushes, who poses the greatest threat to children. It is a member of the family. The vast majority of sexual abuse occurs in the home. So how can the home be made more resistant to abuse?

Now that statement alone may be debateable, but the page goes on to say this
Quote:
Listen to the Children!
IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, Canada, a recent study examined the careers of 30 child molesters. The results were chilling. The 30 individuals had, between them, abused 2,099 children. Fully half of them held positions of trust—teachers, ministers, administrators, and child-care workers. One molester, a 50-year-old dentist, had abused nearly 500 children over a 26-year period.

However, The Globe and Mail of Toronto notes: "In 80 per cent of cases, one or more sectors of the community (including friends or colleagues of the offender, families of victims, other children, some victims) denied or minimized the abuse." Not surprisingly, "the report suggests that denial and disbelief allow abuse to continue."

Some of the victims had told on the abusers. However, "parents of young victims were unwilling to accept what their children were telling them," The Globe and Mail quotes the report as saying. Similarly, a government official in Germany recently cited a report that child victims of sexual abuse have to approach adults with their story as many as seven times before they are believed.
There is very good information in those pages and it is good to see it posted by this organization. I don't think it's advocacy, it is good information presented by and for a group that has particular ways of understanding life and reality. It's not meant for "public awareness", it's targeted and presented for one group. In that regard, I think it is indeed "Good News".

As for the reference to perversion, well, name one Western religion that doesn't hold similar beliefs. And then don't forget that it's only about 35 years since the American medical establishment removed homosexuality as a "sickness". And just over two years since the US Supreme Court ruled that consensual sexual activity between adults of the same sex cannot be proscribed by law.

So move this thread if you must, disagree with the citations, references, and mindset/beliefs of the authors, but please don't, well you know what I'm getting at right?

By the way, I checked out the article on Multiple Sclerosis, which I know all about, and that article is also very good. Maybe too short, and maybe it needs links to the National MS Society, but I didn't create it, so who am I to complain?

Thanks Will. It's good to know this is out there for Jehovah's Witnesses to see.

Does anyone have links to similar information from their own religions???

[edited to add Supreme Court reference]

_________________________
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#75115 - 10/01/05 08:40 PM Re: wonderful article
Kirk Wayne Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 499
Loc: Shrewsbury UK
Could prove TRIGGERING

Is the Watchtower not a Jehovas Witness publication?

If this is one of the same take it with a very large pinch of salt, they are under extreme pressure here in UK to hand over documents regarding known abusers in their Church but the elders refuse to do so.

I have read the article.

I think they should put their own house in order first before spouting this "cover up" type of rhetoric. I seem to remember that the Catholic church used a similar ploy but refused to do anything about the problem of CSA so I would say be careful, very careful.

Is this saying not from the bible? "A wolf in sheeps clothing" Apologies to any Christian Survivors that might have found this triggering

Found it in its the correct context

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" Matthew 7.15

Once again apologies

Kirk


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#75116 - 10/01/05 10:36 PM Re: wonderful article
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Further on this subject, which is of course shifting widely from the original point of the thread:

Don,

I'm glad that you found a friend who was so helpful and supportive, but to me that speaks for the moral virtues of your friend and not necessarily for his religious affiliation. One could find similar friends who belong to many other Christian denominations, or who are Muslims or Jews, or Jains or Hindus or what have you. What I was concerned about was this publication as primarily a vehicle of advocacy for the Jehovah's Witnesses and not for information in CSA. Though I am a believing Christian myself, I am not blind to the hypocrisy, bigotry and what have you, that tend to distort ANY religious organization's views on a subject like ours. I would never refer parents wishing to protect their children, or an abused child or his guardians, to a religious publication. I would look for something here, or for one of the many very useful and compassionate books now available for kids to read that do not approach the subject with some other "higher" agenda in mind.

Kirk,

Absolutely no apologies needed or expected. You have good points to make.

Issues of abuse of children by adults who exploit their religious positions is of course well known from scandals within the Catholic Church. But as you say, it is also an issue with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I would add, as a Protestant, that it is also a problem in our denomination. My abuser was a leader in the local church who was active in the Boy Scout troop sponsored by the church, and one way he kept me quiet was to tell me that if I told anyone I would be disbelieved and the Session of the church would vote and send me to Hell. So as a young teenager that was one way (among many others of course) to keep me quiet and cooperative.

My field is the history and culture of the Middle East, and I know from close friends in the Arab world that the same issues arise in Islam. There are endless scandals in the Middle East, but coverage of them dies at the regional or national level since it is considered shameful even to discuss such issues, especially if important individuals or venerable institutions are involved.

I think the appropriate view here is to acknowledge that evil people can infiltrate any religious system. Once they do, they can easily use their religious authority to serve their own sick ends. The blame, as always, belongs to the perp. The question of whether it also belongs to the religious system depends on how the hierarchy reacts when they get wind of what is happening in their name.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#75117 - 10/03/05 07:16 PM Re: wonderful article
willtobecomplete Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/04/04
Posts: 51
Loc: IL
GUYS LISTEN!

I belive it to be a wonderful and very helpful article! It sure was not my intent to offend or trigger anyone. Did i not say that it is out of a Bible based magazine? The Watchtower and Awake are completely politiclly neutral and non commercial, how can we expect them to be totally politicly correct? Although I am not suprised at any of the attacks against my faith, as i am well aware of all the misconceptions and out and out lies spread about us, I do feel a liitle hurt to my heart that a place like MS here where it is so safe and acceptance runns at such a higher level than is found elsewhere, that it is still possiblle to come accross such blind bias, I guess we all are human and I don't hold it against anyone persoinally. If anyone harbors any of the above mentioned misconceptions and would like to know who we really are and what we are really about please feel free to PM me at any time, but PLEASE, do not stoop so low as sling mud and spread rumors.
Special THANKS to DonNY for defending me, you said it better than I ever could have.

Make it a Great Day!

_________________________
"Him....who is healing all your maladies. Who is reclaiming your life from the very pit" Ps 103:3-4

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#75118 - 10/03/05 07:28 PM Re: wonderful article
Sinking Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/26/03
Posts: 577
Loc: Took my ball and went home.
Will - My comments were not intended to insult you or your religion. They were aimed at the ignorant statement that I quoted above. I subscribe to no organized religion and withhold my judgement of them all.

I apologize if my comments offended you or your practice or faith. As far as I'm concerned, if your faith makes you happy, carries you through the day and reinforces the good person that you are, more power to you.
Peace - John


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#75119 - 10/04/05 05:06 AM Re: wonderful article
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Will, I am grateful for any information that brings to the public consciousness the suffering of children from sexual predators. The message is a good one and I am neither pleased nor displeased that it was a religious organization who authored and published it. I feel that in the world battle against sexual exploitation of children, we need to all put our shoulders together, regardless of culture, religion, race etc. Peace, Andrew

_________________________
there is no courage without anxiety

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