Hi Victor. Glad to see you again. You say you are a perfectionist. Is this also learned behavior. I am that way too. I am perfect, in my mind in what I do, because it masks the self doubt and terror inside me and the inner child. In reality I am not a pefectionist all the time. Only when it pertains to me. I desperately need to be perfect. Man oh Man is that not escapism for me and maybe for you. If we are perfectionists we set ourselves up to fail and then we can say see I am a worthless piece of shit. Well my BROTHER we are not worthless pieces of SHIT. So lets be gentle with ourselves, smell the flowers and appreciate the future that lies before us. It is gonna be a lot better than what it was. Want to know how to relax. Go for a walk and see the happy children and share in their joy of living. Read a book just for the fun of it. We read so many books about coping and shit like that that we must take a time out for the inner us and that soo soo lonely little boy. Let him out and show him that the world can be a wonderful place and good friends can be so supportive and willing to share life's experiences with. Go gently my friend. We spend a lot of time on healing. Even a physically sick body must have food for healing and so does our soul. Think about it Victor perfectionism is just another coping skill to prove that we have worth. Your friends do not doubt that you do. Only you and I feel we have to prove something. Take care. And remember one day at a time. Even god rested when he created the world, or so they say. And he did not do a perfect job did he. The key is what the hell I am only human and deserve a little r&r

Jer:

I really relate to your answers to the questions:

Particulary, "Living in constant state of low grade fear, I guess numbing out was my only choice. Expressing anger wasn't allowed, nor was confrontation. So I numbed out and did nothing to rock the boat, except... well insert lots of self detructive behavior and social isolation."

Also "Most of the time I'm in a state of mild depression, numb with no energy."

Things like numbing out sexually, with food, or in other ways, of course just numbs me all the more. But the problems, & the pain, remain.

Getting at the core issues of SA is really helping me as well, even today with my T & with stuff in Farmers' book.

"Letting myself feel the feelings when they come up and not shutting them down. I can't force them to happen but I sure can shut it down."

This is key for me, as an online friend told me recently. To quit trying to force my feelings out and just letting myself feel them when they do come out. To acknowledge & honor the parts of me that do feel, and to embrace the wounded child hiding within who is afraid to express feeling, and assure him it is safe to do so.

Thanks for sharing your answers, experiences, insight & inspiration, Jer.

Victor

Sleepy;
Sure it was. It traumatized you for as long as you can remember. And it influenced your thoughts and actions all through life. Your sister and her boyfriend put you in harms way. They were older and have probably never really thought about it that way. But boy o boy did it ever affect you. Indirectly they stole part of your childhood. What else would you call it.

Men, I appreciate all of you really opening up & pouring out so to speak here in this thread. Your sharing of your feelings is helping me to feel, or maybe to realize as my T said that I feel a lot more than I think I do.

MrEdd:

Shocking yourself out of the numbness of not feeling. Actually I guess I've tried to do that at time, but with me it's so painful to feel I don't shock easily. Now I'm trying to just relax & feel.

Jake:

There are many ways to detach, and also many ways to reattach, or recover.

Like you I'm afraid of my emotions controlling me.
That's part of why I numb myself until I can't feel. but of course I'd prefer to feel, and find healthy channels for my emotions.

Ecb:

You're right. It is worth it!

Victor

MikeChurch:

I hear & appreciate everything you're saying.
It's like my T & I were talking about this afternoon: part of me is saying "You gotta do this perfect," while another part of me is saying
"No way you can't do it"!

This includes recovery, which I am definitely OCD about: looking for the right book, the right therapy, etc. As my T says I've got all the tools I need I just need to unfreeze & use them.

Farmer talks about enjoying life as a child, with my inner child. I like what you say about this too. Little Victor is scared & wants to come out of the dark & feel & have fun & live. I need to take him by the hand & lead him out. I can do it.

Thanks Mike

Victor

SleepyMike:

In virtually all definitons of SA I've heard or read, what you experienced would be part of the definition. Being put in a place where you see people having sex, see people naked, at an age when you are not ready for that, is being abused sexually. It may be called indirect or covert abuse, but it is nevertheless abuse & very damaging. No wonder you froze up!

***********EXAMPLES***MAY TRIGGER****************
This was a big part of my abuse. Not just the direct sexual incest by my mother, which wasn't exactly a daily or regular thing, tho it was ongoing over several years. But it was her daily & regularly going around the house nude or near-nude, all the sexual talk, openly having sex with men in the apartment with me around, usually with the door open, things like that.
**********************END TRIGGER****************

As you indicated to Jer, it's amazing all the common & similar experiences & responses & baggage
we share.

We can also share common support & caring. Thank you for doing that.

Victor

Thanks for the validation. I appreciate it. That memory is only one of a handfull of memories where I went into "freeze mode." And that's not even taking into consideration the direct sexual contact I had with my sister.

For me, perfectionism is a direct consequence of the freeze mode. I could never let myself be my "out-of-control" sister. I had to be the pinnacale of the good son. Boy, did that ever go too far. I think I'm ready to thaw out from being frozen.

This has been one of the best threads for me. Thanks guys. And, by the way, there are just too many Mikes in this world.

Mike
a.k.a. Sleepy