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#7344 - 08/27/03 09:50 AM What if you really wanted to be a victim?
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
What if, getting the attention from an older cousin in the form of sex, was the only attention you could get from others. Does that mean you're not a victim? What if you don't even feel like a victim, like you wanted it, needed it?

What if you're actually envious of other guys' stories of how they were abused by strangers and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?

What if you think you're warped because you don't even feel like you were good enough to be abused by someone other than your older cousin, who then just dumped you after a while? :rolleyes:

Jim


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#7346 - 08/27/03 01:14 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Jim You where a victim and your cousin knew how to use you for what he wanted. He dumped you because he most likly moved on to other victims. It's all about power and he proved he had power over you.
Quote:
and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?
DESIREABLE had nolthing to do with the abuse from my PERPS. It was all about POWER and opertunity.
Your cousin could of given you the attention you need without abuseing you. There was no reason for you not to trust your cousin,and he abused you. Muldoon

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#7347 - 08/27/03 01:26 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
welly Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 11
Loc: uk
Jim
When the guy that abused & raped me first approached me, pushed me against the wall and kissed me, I was very confused. Part of me welcomed it, the attention and the physical contact that my parents didn't give me.
Did I want to be raped? HELL NO!!!!!
I wanted love and attention like any child (or adult). My parents failed. No-one else stepped in. So when someone showed me some attention I was pleased.
The next time he went a step further. The time after he raped me.
I said nothing, then or for years. Did I want it? No, I wanted love and attention, not to be raped.
I said nothing because I feared being blamed and humiliated. I had little regard for myself as my parents showed no regard for me, so I thought I should just keep quiet and take it. Perhaps it was my place in life, I thought. But those were the thoughts of a lonely, unloved and scared child.

And it was no accident he picked me. I belive people like that can spot kids like I was. I was vulnerable because I was needy and lonely and cut off from my parents. He abused that to abuse me.

Don't take the blame for what your cousin did to you. You are the victim that has survived (and three cheers to you for that). He is the abuser. Put him in his place.

welly


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#7348 - 08/27/03 06:22 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I grew up with cold parents, I lived in the country miles from anyone else my age. I was lonely and starved of affection.
Boarding school, which I thought was going to someplace wonderful, turned out to be even colder and lonelier.

Sex became the price for affection.

It was nothing to do with 'desirability' - and although I do sort of understand where you're coming from with this statement -

Quote:
What if you're actually envious of other guys' stories of how they were abused by strangers and in your mind you think that it is envious because that means they were desireable?
I think that if you think about it carefully you'll see that "we" had nothing to do with it.
The reasons "we" became their victims were opportunity, and our vulnerability.
And being "there and vulnerable" has nothing to do with desireability.

Jim, we did nothing wrong. They did.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#7349 - 08/27/03 06:48 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
bikergary Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 32
Loc: Nevada
Hi Jim,

Along the way I have had some of the same thoughts you have had. Something that seems pretty common is that we all were starved for love and affection. It seems it didn't take our perps long to figure that out. We were deceived into thinking they cared for us.

My perp told me not to tell anyone as they would think I was a bad boy. They knew how to throw their guilt on us too.

Your cousin realized you were vulnerable and used you. It wasn't your fault.

Hang in there, Jim.

Gary

_________________________
WoR Alumni - Hope Springs, Oct 23-25, 2009

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#7350 - 08/27/03 07:29 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
martin Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 229
Loc: The Good Earth
Jim,

I too have had feelings along the same lines. I sometimes have wished that I was abused by an adult and not other altough older kids. Somehow it would be easier to blame adults and it is in a way. But that wouldn't have made my life any easier.

Its just that F'd up type of thinking that victimization instills. We want to blame ourselves because that gives us some amount of control. We couldn't control our need for affection as children nor could we control how some people took advantage of that and used us. What we could control was how we reacted and behaved so we took all the blame on ourselves.

The parents who neglected us and hurt us bear some responsibility for the abuse. The perps bear the responsibility for what they did. The child who received the abuse bears none, although he is the one left to deal with it.

It is important though that we talk about how we feel responsible. Those are the types of thoughts we need to expose to the light of day and compassion of others. Thanks for bringing that up and letting me get mine out a little.

Take good care my brother,

Aaron

_________________________
Its times like these we learn to live again,
Its times like these we give & give again,
Its times like these we learn to love again,
Its times like these time & time again.
-The Foo Fighters

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#7351 - 08/27/03 07:59 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Jim,

You always seem to hit one nail on the head or the other.

"Hearing the stories of others and feeling envious because of their desirability over yours."

Why do I think that I know what you're talking about?

I think that all children are beautiful, all children are disireable, all children are deserving of love, hugs, strokes, caresses, care............but not as abused victims.

When we were sexually abused, we confused all of that physical attention as love.

Hearing how someone else was abused, we blank out the abuse and see only the physical attention that would be loving.

Our thinking was bent. "This is what you do when you get love. This is love. This is how I love you. This is how you love me. This is how we love each other. If I hurt you, that is love. If I embarrass you, that is love. If I ask you to do something that you'd never do in a million years but I tell you that it is love, then, it is love."

Can you think back to the grossest activity that your perp(s) had you doing and somehow telling you or otherwise conveying to you that "this" is love?

I don't know if I've touched on what you are trying to get across, but for me to have been with my perp, and having him point out to me the various "desireable aspects" of the boys passing by, still has a negative effect on me when I have to interact with children.

I was fine with my own daughters, but when they brought their friends over, it was sweat city for me. I've gotten older now and have had therapy to help me in these areas of anxiety but there is a lot that I still avoid, simply because my abuser told me that "it was love."

Peace, power and courage,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#7352 - 08/27/03 10:16 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
I just discovered a new twist on this idea of lack of affection, attention, desireablility, etc.

I had a therapy session yesterday and my psychologist and I talked about an email I got from my mother which was in response to my coming out email to my brother and sisters. My mother said that she didn't believe a word I said and everything I said was garbage.

My mother had completely dismissed my thoughts, my opinions, my words. I was utter nonsense in her mind. This has been the story of my relationship with my mother. My fears, my pains, my dreams, everything I desired, they were garbage to her. I even declined an invitation to go the Coast Guard Academy and get a degree in Marine Biology (my dream) because she thought I was crazy for wanting that and that there could be no future in such an ideal. I've regretted that ever since.

So here I was, getting attention from my father in the form of a belt across my back or arms and attention from my mother in the form of complete dismissal. I cry and it's no good because big boys don't cry. I fear and it's no good because big boys are strong and fearless. I want to play but I can't do that because I have to be the big brother to my little siblings and watch them play and make sure they stay out of trouble. No matter what I do, nothing pleases anyone.

Just wanting to be desired and truely loved. But it's gone and can't be recovered.

Now with my coming out, the rejection and dismissal returns (not a soul in my familiy has talked to me), as do my dreams about being a child again and wanting to be a victim, but not really a victim. I guess I've just warped it all out of whack.

Does anything really matter? I think right now, I'd just like to return to Jan 1st of this year, when no-one knew anything and my secrets were well hidden. I think I want to go back into the well.


Jim


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#7353 - 08/27/03 10:46 PM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
al Offline
Member

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 143
Loc: canada
So what are you really getting at here. You are saying that you feel a person cannot be loved unless he is desirable. You think a person cannot be desirable unless he is cute or handsome. You think you will never be loved or desired because you donít believe you are good looking. Jim this belief is only a coating, a mask, to protect you from being rejected or hurt. Itís natural and its instinctive, and i think you should try to recognize it for what it is: a defense mechanism. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. Itís the same thing as me saying i know iím stupid. Itís a defense mechanism, like having your barrel undercoated to protect against heavy storms. Itís a reaction that comes with lightening speed when i feel threatened or even challenged. Itís something i believe in deeply, it keeps me safe cuz i know i can always fall back on it, even crawl under it if i need to. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

Jim, you are good looking and you are desirable and you are loved. I mean these things. You know i would not lie to you. See them for what theyíre worth, tuck them away in a safe place, try to look at them once in a while. Donít discount them, because there is no intention of rejection or hurt in them, only truth and a hell of allot of love.

_________________________
Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music. Mark Kleiman

Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. Winston Churchill

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#7354 - 08/28/03 12:28 AM Re: What if you really wanted to be a victim?
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Jim,

I can't believe that you wanted to be a victim. I do believe that you wanted to have a friend, affection, and acceptance by someone you admired.

He used and abused your desire for reasonable desires for his own self-serving preverted purposes. He is the one that used and abused you.

My second perp was a father figure to me. Fulfilling my need for an absent father. He used this to SA me. I was a victim of his perverted desires, I was there for the companionship and someone to look up to and admire. Not much to admire in him.

These people took advantage of us. A lot of us, you included, had our own needs we wanted filled, and these people abused us. Being victimized is not what we were after, but what they wanted to give us.

Take care my brother,

Bill

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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