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#73294 - 06/04/05 01:58 PM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
“Because I was a sexually abused child, I think I was more vulnerable to abuse as an adult”

That is a point I make sometimes here. 100% true with me as to my “phases”
1.Pre-teen abuse 2. Early teen more abuse 3. Young adult “abuse”

I seemed as I said before that I had a target tattooed on my backside. It was part my emotional situation and part my physical appearance and such. So I had almost exactly the same events occur.

*** Those guys were predators. Basically you have experienced a “date rape”, extortion and that was not rare in society and Gay society in the 1970’s. ***

The youth hear both gay and those searching can learn from our difficulties not “mistakes”. If somebody today encounters what you experienced, well there are resources on such as gay dating tips and safety. They still do not post a warning label at the door of a leather bar but someone will clue one in.

I maintained after what I endured up to age twenty something a rigid style of who the heck I would “date”. But aggressive types still trapped me. Guess it is a residual of early abuse? As we are no longer 20 cannot say if the problems are as bad now. I know they are not for those that get some guidance or a mentor such as from a Gay Community center or such. I also remember the bad experiences but as I can tell most women dating in that era had the same type of problems. It is not “you” who had a problem but the abusive types. You did no wrong and you were lucky you did not meet a serial killer or such.

Whatever, I restricted my man searches to folks, who were known, had common acquaintances, the bartender having been tipped $10 (in 1970 that was a nice tip)would warn me about someone, and I stuck to “types” as in if they were not like Carson or Jai on QE4SG I’d avoid them.

As I read your words it seems it was a very, very,very dark time when the events took place. One bad experience had me avoiding social stuff for a couple years. It drove me to date women. Think a few here understand that remark and I am not getting humorous. Just the reality.

Rocky Mt Joe


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#73296 - 06/05/05 01:15 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 431
Loc: UK
Hi Jasper,

I have had similar experiences. Had to be drunk to go to a gay club and even drunker to pick someone up. I did feel abused and taken advantage of sometimes. I had unwanted sex and used to feel really horrible and such an idiot afterwards, showering and scrubbing the next day. I did end up with some abusive types. I guess they felt familiar and I was re-enacting what happened to me. I don’t blame them or myself now for my inability to say no. I sure felt angry with them years later about what happened one nasty guy in particular. I simply didn’t see choices if someone said this is what I want you to do, I just did it.

Like you said the sa set me up for re-victimisation, being a victim was also sexualised for me which added to my confusion and self disgust, my only defences where to freeze or go away mentally. If the paralysis kicks in now I know I can stop. I didn’t have a clue why I behaved like this until I connected it to the abuse.

Peter


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#73297 - 06/06/05 02:46 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
I really wonder sometimes when I read the messages. I had “forgotten” that other than the abuse there was a group that really caused me grief in school. These were teen boys who
I assume were straight but who knows how they turned out.

All they wanted to do was usually just tease and humiliate the “little sissy” “homo”. But we all know what some wanted. Most of the guys were “discreet” but a few liked to have friends
watch as I “did them”. Being queer in the 1960’s was rough.
The younger posters around have some idea what it was like as I know some rural areas are no fun to be gay in still. It seems as if it was “ok” for straight boys to either tease the fairy
or ask him to do something.

Now gay bashing is still a sport for some but at least it is viewed as illegal.
I still wonder what motivated them. I wonder how many boys never realized that the guy who was forcing them was not a gay predator but just a
sexual thug. I still do not consider getting teased or harassed as “abuse” as it was peer pressure that drove most of the teens. I’d need input from a straight guy about this. It was just done back then. 99% of the guys that messed with me and any other “fairy” had no sexual intent. I never feared most all as it was just how it was. It was that 1% that I suspect went on to
“hate crimes”. I never said no so I never really got beat up but I knew teens that were, suspect that this 1% were also after the girls as well.

Most teen girls were very supportive as many of my worst tormentors were very unpopular with the girls. By high school I sort of lost my tormentors as many moved or joined the army at 17. My abusers from junior high were adults, and knew which kids were potential recruits based upon not only how I acted and looked but likely from other boys talking about it.

Read elsewhere about some guy being abused by his father and offered the choice of going along or getting beaten.
Talk about a rough thing to deal with. I was lucky, I did not really mind getting whacked
but feared getting used “like a girl”. It is strange how I ended up playing with the girls until they got old enough to think about dating and such. Felt safe around them. If you have read other posts you have seen I do know a bit more than most on “crossdressing”.

Rocky Mountain

PS

Who cares? Abuse was the etiology (cause) of my liking to wear a dress sometimes.
Did it for “fun” not any sexual thing. And I did not go out to leather bars in a nice
poodle skirt \:D

It was a phase, besides the guys that would hit on me in Denver were very much gentlemen. So, sorry I am not transgender but really like those who are
sometimes “hiding” behind that make up and such. This was the one area I did not bring up in therapy. I do have a sense of being honest here. But I approach this aspect with humor! Trust me my female therapist -I never see men- was a fashion challenged woman.


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#73298 - 06/06/05 07:22 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
sophiesdad Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 462
Loc: Florida
I think the bottom line here is that the very first time we were abused we were automatically set up psychologically for more predators.

  • We felt "dirty" and therefore must have deserved it.
  • Maybe some of us experienced abuse attached to pseudo love which made us feel accepted
  • The experience may have been sexually exciting which made us open for more
  • We became so desperate for any love or acceptance that we were easily preyed upon
  • We may have frozen and felt paralyzed during the abuse and couldn't say "no"


Our abusers destroyed our sense of self-confidence, self-worth and the ability to stick up for ourselves. In a sense, they painted the sign on us and it takes years of healing and therapy to be able to wash that sign off.

We need to remind ourselves over and over that it wasn't our fault. We didn't ask to be abused. But now, we deserve the right to say NO. We deserve to be treated with human kindness and compassion.

I hope that I'm making some sense.

SD

_________________________
There are no unresolved issues - they just didn't resolve themselves the way we would have liked. "Grinder and Bandler - Neuro-Linguistic Programming"

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#73301 - 06/07/05 12:22 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
Rustam Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 431
Loc: UK
Hi Jasper,

No you are not going nuts. I went back to therapy a year and a half ago. I had a reasonable intimacy with my partner, since dealing with this sex has become very difficult to the point that I don’t want it. As we deal with this we are much more easily triggered. So flashbacks, suddenly feeling like a child again and intimacy problems do get worse for sometime. It doesn’t feel very positive and for me at any rate has been quite frightening. I am assured that it is positive and that it is part of the ‘process’ and is temporary.

I try and let my partner know what is going on with me and he gets it some of the time but feels that his needs are not being met. He did do some reading etc and that has helped him some.

Take care,

Peter.


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#73303 - 06/07/05 10:34 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
ShyBear Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/08/05
Posts: 149
Loc: The American South
SophiesDad,
Quote:
I think the bottom line here is that the very first time we were abused we were automatically set up psychologically for more predators.
Boy, you really hit the nail on the head. Perhaps, with some immediate counseling, I might have recovered from the actual sex abuse itself, because it was a single incident & not violent. However, the one person I sought out, to help me make sense of it, happened to be a religious fundamentalist who spiritually raped me with the supposedley anti-gay biblical passages from Leviticus & Romans.

With a naeve, 11 year old point-of-view, I totally internalized that God hated me, that I was a filthy abomination and utterly worthless. For 37 years afterwards, I reeked shame & self-hatred, and predators of various sorts sniffed that out and made tracks right for me. And since I was such a filthy abomination, it was ok for them to hurt me because it's what I deserved and as a useless, worthless piece of shit, I'd tolerate ANYTHING for a few crumbs of attention, even if it was negative/abusive.

*shudder*

I still struggle a lot with this, especially when it comes to physical self-care.


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#73305 - 06/07/05 09:39 PM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
J-50

Really seems clearer as I read you latest.
Congratulations Amigo.

"drop a dime" I tried several years ago to do so
and one was a suicide and the church dude was dead. As the only other one would be about 104 figured he'd be gone as well. The youth leader-teacher suicide was related to "pending investigation". It dug up old wounds to track them down. So caution but perhaps his name is on some States "sex offender" listing?

I also got leads from the high school reunion bb...

Rocky in the mountains Joe


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#73307 - 06/07/05 11:33 PM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
Mister J,

It is not your sole responsibility.

We need guidelines but here are a few.

1. Be careful, very much
2. Realize you can drop the dime to "Crime stoppers"
3. Ask me for any help
4. Ok to get pissed at me
5. Do this out of a sense of justice not revenge
6. Higher powers will judge the bastards
7. There are some "legal" issues but WTF.

Joe

PS

we do have issues with hate, that is also not good, let as we said in the army "God sort them out".

PS2

listen to some mellow music while you do whatever!


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#73309 - 06/08/05 11:37 AM Re: Gay Date Rape -- Trigger Warning!
RockyMtJoe Offline
Member

Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 97
Loc: East of Pueblo, Colorado
Morning (I rise at 4 AM here in the farm country)

Versus dudes who post after midnight :p

J sound 2 me like that man was a "chicken hawk"
old style, the classic pervert aiming at "straight" kids. Perhaps you wore a sign noting you were different? Few did in the 60's. Many gays would not keep a secret. Again it was the times. I was a lot younger (12-13) and also kept my secret.

Your other issue is the result of what he did and
I suspect that wittout listing the details I can say that it happened with me. My role in the abussive act was to recieve and please him not myself. It just burned out the circuits for years.

Hence my "role" for years as a provider of pleasuring not realizing it was ok to have fun
too. Hate to say but you were lucky it was later in the 60's as for me in the early 60's there were just no options for teens. It took a decade before I had a male friend.

Well gotta go and wake the rooster \:D
not not that, actually have a chicken ranch
next to my land. Free range for certain.

Joe


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