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#72312 - 03/22/04 09:20 PM Did we "ask for it"?
IamGeordi Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 5
Loc: Metro DC
One of the hardest things for me to deal with as a gay man has been the notion that I somehow asked for my uncles and others to abuse me.

If we're born gay or straight, then maybe subconsciously, I wanted them to do it.
And a part of me DID enjoy it. (That's what mad it so bad. If I'd hated it, like I was supposed to, I would've been normal.)

Of course this is a load of hog-wash, but it still naggs me when I let my logic down. How do others deal with this?


Geordi Byron

_________________________
We well, blessed, and happy,

Geordi Byron

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#72313 - 03/23/04 01:11 AM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
I don't think we asked for it in any way shape or form. To me a child molester doesn't look for someone to be wanting this. They are looking for someone they can control, over power, manipulate, deceive. To me that has nothing to do with who we are or what we are. Maybe I'm being way too simplistic here but it is all actions that the molester does. It is like a stray bullet and we just happened to walk in its path. Ok, maybe I'm trying to oversimplify this way too much now.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#72314 - 03/23/04 02:25 AM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
saxonblue Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/04
Posts: 7
We didn't ask for it, not as a child or youngster. Surely being born gay doesn't mean abusers have a "carte blanche" do do as they like. You know the answer.

As a teen hitting puberty I was curious, and interested in other BOYS, boys my age that is. Just as I am interested in MEN my age now. I was never interested in my dad or any other sick shit who wanted to use me. I wasn't able to fight them off. It has brought great difficulty to my life, not the least my sexlife. But regardless of the trauma of sa, my sexual identity hasn't changed.

Cheers and best regards,

Daniel

_________________________
I wish I could eat as much, as I would like to throw up....

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#72315 - 03/23/04 12:58 PM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
I've had to deal with the fact that it is possible for boys only a few years older to be s'xual abusers.

I've had to deal with the fact that men can s'xually abuse other men.

This has complicated the feelings of having asked for it or being a more or less willing participant.

Even writing this brings up the fear that guys reading it will think that I asked for it or that the abuse wasn't really abuse because the perps were more or less the same age I was.

I've had to deal with the fact that my mother not only completely ignored the obvious signs that something horrible had happened to me but also belittled me for the changes in my personality that resulted from it.

This all communicated a long lasting message to my young mind that what I experienced was inconsequental, not unusual, was normal or what I deserved.

At the same time she also verbally and emotionally abused me and beat me which further communicated that I deserved any bad thing that happened to me and any feelings of misery and alientation that I experienced.

I've had to deal with the fact that my father stood only a few yards away drinking beer and joking with his friends while I was being abused in a public restroom by a older guy, boy or man, as if it were nothing, as if I weren't worth looking after.

The way I deal with it today is to remind myself day after day, often throughout the day, that it was not my fault, that despite the way I was treated, the neglect I experienced, I was worth a great deal more than I received, that I deserved better than I experienced.

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#72316 - 03/23/04 09:00 PM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Dale English Offline
Newsletter Founder/Producer
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 448
Loc: PA
Hey Geordi,

The truth of the matter is quite simple. Did you go looking to be abused? NO...but the abuser was looking to abuse. They scout out a target, and "you" don't even know it's happening. They "groom" you with the schrewdness of a master manipulator and "you" don't even know you're being betrayed. And then they "take" what they want while you're frozen with fear, leave "you" to feel ultimately responsible because "I can see you like it", then walks away and leaves "you" to pick up the pieces over a lifetime.

So now tell me once again how "you" made this happen? It's tough enough to grow up gay but add this madness to it and it's no wonder we all ask the same questions you did. But the answer remains NO!! It's ALL about the abuser(s).

Be well Geordi and stay awhile with us.....

Taz


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#72317 - 03/24/04 01:18 PM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Geordi,

I don't know what I am, but is it because of the SA? Being abused right around puberty was very confusing. I was curious about sex. I thought the abuser was like an older brother that I never had. I thought that I could talk to him about sex. I was seduced, used and made to think that because I responded to the stimulus that I was somehow a willing participant. And yes I enjoyed getting oral sex, it felt really good. The shame that I always felt afterward was monumental. How could I have done that! I'll never do that again! But it happened again...and again...and we did other things too.

I was married for over 33 years and never had sex with another woman. But I continued to seek out guys. And I always felt like shit afterward, saying that I'd never to that again. See a pattern there? I know that I was vulnerable as a child. I know that I was trusting as a child. I know that I would have done anything for affection as a child. That's not asking for it, that's being a child. The abuser, though only a few years older than me, saw those qualities in me and used them to get what he wanted. And he left me feeling worthless and ashamed and confused. I felt that way for too many years. It affected my life, my love and my self-worth. I know intellectually that I was not at fault but emotionally I still feel that I wanted it and I got what I deserved. But I'm working on that..... Life is a work in progress and it's far superior to the alternative.

Take good care of yourself,

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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#72318 - 03/24/04 03:07 PM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
coolcat Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Winnipeg MB Canada
I know I never ask for it as a 5 and 12 year old. I believe that we are born this way. Although like you I have question this for many years.We are who we are and I am glad for that.
Gus

_________________________
Take it easy, Don't that the sounds of your own wheels drive you crazy....
Gus

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#72319 - 03/24/04 06:47 PM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Geordi
I thought that I was 'willing and wanted it' for over 30 years. I had been abused by up to six older boys and a teacher at boarding school but didn't look upon it as 'abuse'

It started out as low level stuff, masturbation, at first but the 2 ringleaders ( the teacher joined in much later ) soon wanted more - which is when I resisted. So they got the gang together and beat and raped me for a whole afternoon. After that I did exactly as they wanted and learned to initiate and ask for sex. I was even suggesting different positions and asking for group sex by the age of 12.

So I went through my early adult life remembering this 'attitude' that I had developed towards sex with these older boys, and used it for my sexual fantasies. But although I remembered the gang rape in detail in my 'saner' moments I mainly remembered it as a fantasy of 'great sex'

Through this distorted thinking I convinced myself that every single incident, right from the beginning, was something that I wanted and consented to.

It's only by accepting the reality of my accurate memories that I've now convinced myself that it was NEVER my fault.

But -

Quote:
Of course this is a load of hog-wash, but it still naggs me when I let my logic down. How do others deal with this?

this is also very true, and I think it's something many guys still struggle with to some degree.
It gets easier though, it's not one of those things we can overcome quickly. Time is the great healer for this, and as we progress the power of the distorted thinking about our memories becomes less, and the true thinking becomes second nature.
We learned the distorted in a climate of sex and fear, and there are no greater reinforcers to any kind of thinking. It's also why we struggle so much with the good sex we now want as adults.


WHat happened has very little to do with sex either, it's a power trip for most abusers - sex is the weapon of choice for getting that power.
And homosexuality, either yours or theirs, isn't the driver for most abusers. It's opportunity and power.

And over those two things we had no defense as young boys.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#72320 - 03/25/04 01:21 AM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
********Sorry this could trigger some*******

Hey, guys, this is somthing with which I have fought my whole life...being such a part of all of it.

What did my therapist say the other day?

You will have to look at why you feel like such a co-conspirator.

That's it. The sonofabitch made me feel like such a part of it. The trips he'd take me on. The driving that he'd let me do. The smoking and drinking that he made available and encouraged. The camping trips, the trips to San Francisco, the dinners. It was all one big seduction and I was center stage and he just kept it coming and I lapped it up like some homeless puppy.

Then someone, here, asked someone else in a post that they were feeling particularly bad about. He asked, "Just how big and well defended do you think a 13 year old is?"

How big? How mature? How easy was I?

Ya, he knew exactly what he was doing.

know the feeling,

David

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#72321 - 03/25/04 02:42 AM Re: Did we "ask for it"?
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Sometimes a visual image makes more of an impression. The next time you're in a department store just go to the boys clothing department. See what a boys size 10 shirt looks like. That's the size I wore when the abuse started. I know 'cause I found my old Boy Scout shirt a couple of years ago. I didn't have a chance, it wasn't my fault.

Steve

_________________________
I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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