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#72191 - 01/21/04 09:39 AM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
ps - the website was offered as one boost to the pride issue - these guys and gals are super talented - brilliant - and offer great info on our history and editorialize as well-
mgb

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"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
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#72192 - 01/21/04 11:42 AM Re: re-abused?
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
Bush's statement about marriage last night is an example of what I meant. It is part of the barrage of negativity we receive concerning our sexuality, our intimate relationships and even the value of our personhood as gay people.

I am not particularly interested in "gay marriage." What bothers me is the absence of any pledge to guarantee equal rights for gay people in committed relationships.

And what about a constitutional amendment supposedly to protect straight marriage? What is that if not a direct attack on gay people and a move to re-write the constitution to exclude a class of people from its guarantees?

This is what I meant by re-abuse.

How does this undermine our recovery from abuse when we hear this sort of abusive attack almost every day?

Look at what MGB experienced in a resturant. It felt like an unsafe place simply because it felt like he was the only gay person there. Who among us has not experienced that?

Hate to be negative but I see it as the truth. While we sometimes, perhaps often, have positive interactions with individual straight people, the culture/society as a whole continues to devalue us as human beings. Isn't this essentially what our abusers did?

Isn't our trust in being treated decently being betrayed again and again?

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#72193 - 01/21/04 05:00 PM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i concur - perhaps we need to start to make institutions of our own regardless of whether they are sanctioned by the state as "legal."

perhaps this culture only responds to economic stimulae (ie the competition for the "gay" consumer."

if one (i had an idea) were to make a "commitment ceremony bridal/groom shop" - this economic base -would make us visually more apparent - let's face it the design would be immaculate - and how much you wanna bet straight couples would come in to shop -
just a thought - the more we are seen - the more people will have no choice but to respect us everywhere-

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#72194 - 01/21/04 05:03 PM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i know you do not really go for marriage or the term marriage Brayton -
the idea i present offers a way for that choice
to be had publicly and respectfully -

a start ...

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#72195 - 01/21/04 05:05 PM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
maybe...

i get angry at this topic -
apologies

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#72196 - 01/21/04 08:23 PM Re: re-abused?
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Bush's comments really were disturbing to me. I'm not necessarily interested in gay marriage but I don't want people officially telling me I am a disease to society. I wish that we would be able to get some of the same benefits as married people do in society, but right now a certain sect in our country are hell bent are keeping gays swept under the rug.

It is so sad that our society and many churches teach hate, while proclaiming love and acceptance.

Don

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#72197 - 01/21/04 09:05 PM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
yeah - i have had a nun and a priest tell me i was
doomed to hell and i needed to confess before they even spoke to me - the first time we spoke in private - not a very "caring" or "loving" thing to say -

i agree MrDon - total hipocrats (sp?)

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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#72198 - 01/22/04 02:07 AM Re: re-abused?
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
Everything we do is based on agreements we have made—agreements with ourselves, with other people, with God, with life. But the most important agreements are the ones we make with ourselves. In these agreements we tell ourselves who we are, how to behave, what is possible, what is impossible. One single agreement is not such a problem, but we have many agreements that come from fear, deplete our energy, and diminish our self-worth.”


“ In these agreements we tell ourselves who we are, how to behave, what is possible, what is impossible. ”
1. Be Impeccable With Your Word
Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.


2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.


3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#72199 - 01/22/04 01:14 PM Re: re-abused?
Brayton Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 696
Loc: Minneapolis
I like those guiding principles, Orodo.

Here's a question for everyone.

Are we immune from an action if that action is a constitutional amendment? Laws and constitutional amendments are things that affect our lives everyday, aren't they? How can we be immune from them?

I think there is a great deal that we can change in reference to our perception of what people are thinking or saying about us. I think it is possible to develop immunity from that sort of thing to a great extent. I don't think that such things constitute "re-abuse."

When a constitutional amendment is proposed and supported in a President's State of the Union speech, I think that those who want such a thing must contitute a group of significant size.

Is it possible anymore to dismiss them as a sort of fringe group?

I have always felt that a majority of people are anti-gay when it gets right down to it. They may be friendly, nice, that sort of thing, they may even be supportive and accepting on a personal, one-on-one basis, but when it comes to broad principles of acceptance and guarantees of basic rights, I think that most of them are anti-gay.

That, from my point of view, is the source, the fountainhead of re-abuse.

If our original abusers saw us as individual human beings worthy of respect and possessing certain basic rights, I don't think the abuse would've occurred.

I think that if people today saw us as a group of individuals worthy of respect and possessing certain basic rights, a constitutional amendment would not only never been proposed but wouldn't have even come forward in any serious way to begin with.

This is, I think, a betrayal of the trust that as human beings we should be able assume. Am I wrong?

_________________________
Sometimes, things just won't work the way we want them to.

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#72200 - 01/23/04 05:37 PM Re: re-abused?
markgreyblue Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
For me Orodo's agreements post are pretty powerful -
Especially the 'best I can do part at that time' - Wanting to make things 'right' is what i often have been wanting to do -
or do to 'perfection'
can be almost possible in art -
but not in relationships -
As much as I have tried to avoid dissapointments, it can be pretty crazy making. -
these are helpful philosophies
that help me accept myself and deal with
impulses and ultimately help me
heal and live day to day
- they are working so far

_________________________
"...do not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous



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