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#71986 - 10/05/03 09:41 PM Re: Cheap sex
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
What you described is pretty much what my life was for several years. I met people in anonymous situations at porn video, strip clubs, nudist places or the internet and would have sex but never see them again. There was usually no mental connection with them, just purely sexual. I usually never remembered their faces or anything about them either as it was blocked from my mind.

And like you suggested, I often left feeling more empty, alone, disgusted, shameful, sick, dirty, (you name it, I felt it). I hated myself so much for all of this and yet no matter how hard I tried at the time, I couldn't stop it from happening.

Then I finally got the courage up to begin talking online with others about it and then with my therapist and then with a close survivor friend. Once I learned to accept myself, my behavior began a slow process of change. It did change finally for me as I have not been back into any of those situations for a long time.

It does help that I have Jeff and I am totally committed to him, but something changed within me (can't figure out what it was or when it happened), but my desire to do these things stopped. Maybe it was a miracle,,, I don't know!

I am not able to do the version of sex that you refer to (anal sex) because of the traumas that still haunt me from my childhood. I would love to, but I just can't get there. And we have so much enjoyment with each other in so many levels that it really doesn't matter. Sometimes I think it is more a stereotype that all gay people do this. Plus anything that hurts is not good and should not be taken to be something that is good for anyone. If a partner does not respect this, they are definately not there for a fulfilling experience. Both Jeff and I respect each other 100% and that has allowed us to learn to love each other more and more.

But please know that as rough as it may seem right now, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It took me some time to find it and at one point in my life I never thought I would. Alot of it begins with learning to love and accept yourself (even with what you may perceive as your failures). That's not easy, but it is an important step in this process.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71987 - 10/13/03 01:57 AM Re: Cheap sex
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Flint, Michigan
<<>>

_________________________
Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

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#71988 - 10/13/03 06:26 PM Re: Cheap sex
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Bill

Quote:
It seems like a dream, but I think I is very doable.
You bet !

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71989 - 10/13/03 10:07 PM Re: Cheap sex
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Bill, this is one of the times when having met a person makes me feel so much more secure in what I write.

You are a fine man Bill. There is no doubt you have a good sense of yourself. Besides all the good qualities you have, I feel that the people whom you attract, will be the people you want to be around. Someday, one of those will be that special person you are looking for. I bet that person is probably looking for someone like you right now.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#71990 - 10/14/03 09:25 AM Re: Cheap sex
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
All of these responses have been great. Thanks to all.

It just gets lonely, that's all. And it's hard. I've really wanted to do things that would be unhealthy just to cure the lonliness. Or get some control over what was done to me (being abused on my terms, I suppose).

It wouldn't be as easy for me being in my mid-thirties (soon to be late thirties), but sometimes, I feel like trolling for dirty old men and let them do what they want. Then I think about you guys and what you've said and it's easier to resist that.

Thanks.

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#71991 - 10/14/03 09:32 AM Re: Cheap sex
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Scott,
The loneliness was something that fed into my habit of looking for these things. I felt all alone and I hated that. But now looking back I can see that I actually added to my loneliness as I continued my activities. Maybe one of the things that helped change the course for me and helped me to take a turn was when I volunteered for a local community group. I remember being so scared at the time to do this and it ended up being one of the most enjoyable things that I have ever done. Since I no longer live there, I do really miss this community group but that might have been the thing that actually turned the rudder on the ship.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71992 - 10/25/03 08:45 AM Re: Cheap sex
tomjb Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 7
Loc: NY USA
I don't quite know where to start but I need to! See, I can very much identify with Scott, and more, lots lots lots lots more!

Four years ago, as I sparated from my family, I started dealing with ME. Least I thought I had. Instead, I ended up hurting myself and others. I wasn't at ALL aware that I, ME I was a compulsive ADDICT.. and compulsive sex addict as well as a SAME SEX ADDICT to boot. (SSA) There were abuse support abuse I went to, which were supportive, when I was in them. However, I allowed myself to get caught up in a part of me I didn't know existed. Deep within, my lusts, overtook everything I knew. The emotional trauma I experienced as a result was due to MY OWN screwed up vision of what I thought was Ok. I caused hurt for me as well as for others. SO, I then rationalized that to keep myself above that I needed to
  • (a) be more OPEN with people, but
    (b)I ALSO needed fulfill these feelings OUTWARDLY in a controlled way so as not to let myself get to a point where I could screw again.

Thus, I allowed myself to be in put in extremely submissive and to some extent victimized behaviors wanting to be victimized to the worse extent possible, and willing to do anything demanded of me. NOTHING ELSE MATTERED when I was in that 'MODE'! I acted out, allowing myself to do theses things over and over and over.. with WHOMEVER... and moreover BY WHOMEVER... ALl of wihich I thought punishment and fulfillment

In the meantime I sought help in many venues.. online.. in support groups, in a men's SSA group, offline in a mens group, in a church group that said it could make me str8, in SA, I am still active in an online Reparative Therapy group.. and somewhat active in another Church SSA group and they ARE very supportive.. I have tried SA...I even went to one of your retreats... and on and on and on. So it is NOT that I am not trying. the thing is I am not totally sure I want to .. and I do NOT understand why.

Today I am not all too much better... in the last 2 years I have acted out with many men i never thought I would or could be with but I did.. I think about sex 24 hours day and I MEAN literally TWENTY-FOUR HOURS ... IN MY SLEEP...I DREAM about sexual situations. When I talk to people.. there are ALWAYS -- ALWAYS sexual innuendos that come to my mind.. NOTHING... stops my feelings in side.. I want to be hurt.. I want someone to take that total control and do whatever they want to me.. and I HAVE ALLOWED IT.. and I HAVE ENJOYED IT, and given the opportunity, likely will again.

Some of you here may know me... I also use the name stuocms. I have and want to HIDE nothing...

I am also seeing a woman now... and I am not sure why... I like her a whole lot. I enjoy being with her most times.. but she thinks though the 'Holy Spirit' I can have this daemon driven from me. That if I wanted to it too, it would just 'GO AWAY' but I am hanging on to it. OH, how i wish it was that simple. I have been open and honest with her about my abuse, and about my being gay. But not about ALL my acting out, just that I have acted out. I insist to her and those at church, she also attends, that I do not want to be like this(sic). To some extent I DON"T... but in reality to some extent I do. I want to have sex with her too... to the point where it has strained our relationship, which I am not sure i want, yet I do. She thinks I am this really great guy and I can overcome all this. I think I am not great at all, that I am far from what she deserves. So, I end up sabataging our relationship, not consciously, but I do, same as I did with my (ex)wife, whom I still love dearly but does no longer love me or will ever again. Divorce in eminant in the next month.

I have come close to fulfilling suicidal feelings but back out cause I am so scared, I love GOD and love my boys... (2 sons) I still 'absolutely go out of my way to PLEASE everyone' AT MY OWN EXPENSE and think nothing of it. I run as far as I can to avoid ANY confrontation, even to the extent of where I need to me acertive with my boys. I don't know how to think at times as an adult, and I am way into adulthood, almost into archaichood.

I am not sure if Scott's Post was where I needed to post this, but a lot of what you guys said to him related to me also and I did not want to be redundant... The point is, while I hate it.. I LOVE IT.. I crave it I lust for it.. I CAN'T HELP IT. I can't reach that intellectual part.. that you guys and others talk about.. I just can't get there. I am like a little kid.. unable to make rational decisions.. UNABLE to say 'NO' not even to MYSELF. Please Note that I have not done anything illegal or hurtful to anyone.. least not in a physical sense anyway, except to myself.

Tom

P.S. I feel that while there is a WHOLE lot of EMPHASIS on the CHURCH situatuion... and i am HIGHLY emotionally UPSET and saddened by the depts to which that went. But please remember, and I am sure you DO, that there are MILLIONS of us also that were abused by members of our own family, friends, or community for which there is no kind of recourse... No one to help support the needs we have in trying to deal. Just wanted to express that sidenote.


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#71993 - 10/25/03 01:05 PM Re: Cheap sex
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Tom,

Thanks for your trust in us. I hope some of the guys can give you some ideas that will be comforting at least.

Tom, one thing I see is that you are filled with anger at yourself and feel that if you are somehow punished it will have some value. That is not at all true.

Here is an idea. Think of yourself hearing a young man telling you all this stuff about himself. I am willing to bet, that you would challenge him on everything, and you would do your best to make him see the goodness within himself.

Do the same for yourself. You have been terribly harmed and it has had an awful impact on you. I wish that just being able to will it to change would work. I also wish that God would be the kind of God that would take all that stuff away from all of us. But, God seems to work trhough our brothrs and sisters of the human race--and they don't have the power to snap their fingers and clear out the debris.

If you can, my hope for you would be that you constantly tell yourself how good a person you are and how much others care for you with unmitigated respect.

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#71994 - 10/26/03 05:01 AM Re: Cheap sex
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Tom,

I can relate to your situation, as well as you can relate to mine. No, I haven't reached addiction stage, but I do have a compulsion (which, thank GOD, I haven't acted upon much. Just enough to make me guilty and miserable that they happened) that could easily become addiction if I allowed it.

I do have, thanks to genetics and upbringing, an "addictive personality" which, if I was to truly let go, could lead me to a variety of addictions. I have a tendancy to abuse alcohol, for example, which I am resisting, but it could easily be anything that is pleasurable to me.

However, Tom, if I may be so bold (and if this is hurtful, I'm sorry. I don't mean it to be that way), I think you have a self-esteem issue that relates to your abuse. My situation screwed me up so badly, I do not know what I want, or am I even sure about my sexuality. I do act out with men and could easily "fall in love" with both men and women, but what am I really? I don't know. Truth is, I should be REPULSED by the idea of sex, or even emotional intimacy, with men. But I am not. Part of me likes it. Likes it enough to consider it for the rest of my life. But if I felt so inclined, I could feel that there was something wrong with homosexuality and wish to "purge" myself of the urges.

These church groups, like Emerge, are well-meaning, but I think destructive. They could take any behavior, make it sinful and wrong, and turn you against it by putting the fear of God (literally!) into you. Thus, they can make you hate yourself and force you into a cycle of self-loathing and self-abuse.

I really don't know what your situation is beyond what you wrote. My guess is that you do NOT feel worthy of any sort of normal and healthy relationship, either with women or men, and you "like" the addictive behavior because it is your release, no matter how harmful it is to you.

I strongly suggest that you find yourself a therapist that deals both with addiction and sexuality issues. (S)he can help you understand why you do these things, make you see how worthy and valuable a person you are (indeed, you are Tom. You have a lot to say and I'd like to hear more about what you have to say), and guide you to better decisions regarding sex and sexuality.

It isn't easy, Tom, but it is doable. My heart goes out to you because I feel the same things you do. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing. You can even PM me if you want to talk.

I love you, brother. No strings, nothing in return.

Peace,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#71995 - 10/26/03 01:29 PM Re: Cheap sex
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Tom
I can remember being just like you, the constant thinking about sex from the moment I woke up - 'till I went to sleep. And I hoped I'd dream about it as well.

But things have changed, and although I still have moments of struggle I haven't acted out with other men for close on six years.
My 'slips' these days are the occasional use of porn, and I don't beat myself up over that any more.
And as time goes on and I get stronger these 'slips' get further apart and easier to stop.

How did I get here?
Well, I have to say good therapy and lots of hard work.
I was lucky in getting a wonderful therapist at a charity that specializes in adult survivors. But I would say to anyone, look very hard for a therapist that specializes or at least has experience of CSA.
I realise that some places are better served than others, but at least look for a specialist therapist.

The hard work ? that was down to me. And don't read into that that I am some kind of 'wonder-guy' that went into therapy knowing what to do and having a steely determination to do it. Far from it.
I was wreck, I'd been suicidal and barely had the self respect to wash anymore.

We can do it, there's no magic to it, just acceptance of who we are, why we are like this, and a small vision of where we'd like to be. Armed with that and some support we can perform wonders. ( miracles by appointment ;\) )

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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