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#71866 - 07/01/03 08:46 PM Wondering about sex - trigger
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
This is tough to put into words.

I attempted to get into a threesome last night, but early on I had to leave, it grossed me out as I thought it might. Last night was the first time I tried to have body contact since my revelation of SA at the hands of my father. Before that, I would have stayed, whether I enjoyed it or not just to get off. The past decade, a self imposed period of isolation, has left me with little outside or personal contact with others.

The revelation has been a double-edged sword; it has set me free to WANT to be with others, but it also made me aware I am no longer the same person. I want more of the better things that others have, relationship, companionship, sharing, etc. It has made question if I am at heart gay, it has made me ask, since last night, what would it be like to be able to love. Another question I've been asking myself is which is worse, to have loved and lost or to have never known how to love?

On the way there, I remember wondering if I would be alright, you know, not freak out on who was there or break down. I remember thinking how I would say, "it's not you it's me."

Well nothing happened except using that line "it's not you..." I left as fast as I could. Tonight I have no desire to be with others. I'm worried the only future contact I'll be able to have is that which I'll never find. If that doesn't happen, finding a soul mate, then what? Now, with the eyes opened to what has been screwing me up all these years and knowing there are better things to be had, what if I am destined to be alone and more miserable knowing the other side of what could have been?

I'm wondering if taking anti-depressants only numbs the low, which just screws-up the lethargic high of being depressed, like laughing all the way to Hell. And if I stop taking the drug now will I totally lose it now that I know how really messed-up I am? So much has been freed, but I'm wondering if I would be better off never having known.

Just rambling here, sorry. I hope I haven't hurt or offended anyone.

_________________________
Michael

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#71867 - 07/01/03 09:09 PM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
horseboy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 17
Loc: nowhereland
Dear Michael,


In reading your post I can't really help but wonder over your opening line. Now please understand and take to heart that I am neither gay nor homophobic in any way, but here I see behaviour that could be harmfull. Now, forgive me for this paternizing statement, surely I see I have nothing left in your bedchamber, still I would share this thought with you.

Being gay implies to me, as an outsider to that sexual preference, as a person being both physically and emotionally able and likely to fall in love with a member of his or her own sex.
To me, this also implies a bond between these two individuals, nothing less strong then any heterosexual couple would experience.

I believe purely sexual relationships are without exception harmfull, not merely to those who have a history of abuse to bear, but to all humans, because sex is more than just getting off. We were taught it is just that, as a practical thing, and now as adults may continue "using" each other, be it voluntarily. But how voluntary is it?

You "attemped" to get in on it. In my humble view, sex should be spontanious and out of a deep longing to be with another human being. A feeling almost too strong to control or describe. Not planned or scedualed.

Are you sure you are not seeking validation to who you feel you must be in the eyes of others?

Please be very carefull with how you deal with your medication, and by all means consult a doctor before you make radical changes.

I hope you find your awnsers, and happiness as well. You certainly deserve it.

Erik

_________________________
The Lord doesn't aid the mighty battalions, He aids the one that is the best shot.

Voltaire.

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#71868 - 07/01/03 09:37 PM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Michael,

I think it's a good thing you came here to post. Erik's given you a lot of good advice.

The only thing I would add is that you might be impatient, if you're trying to find a soul mate on some schedule. Let up a little, go easy on yourself. It's hard to face the time that's gone, the time that was taken by the effects of sexual abuse. I know it's very, very hard for me, right now. I keep seeing parts of my past in a whole new light, and I'm beginning to see what I lost.

But that's looking back. I'm trying to look forward, and I'm trying to look forward to possibilities, not a plan for playing catch up. Yeah, I'd love to have a way to get everything back that I missed, if I could even identify it. There are a lot of impossible things I'd love to have, though. Part of learning to deal with the real world, and the people in it, for me, is coming to terms with what is and isn't realistic.

I won't say I know your hurt, because you would know I'm lying. But maybe you recognize something in the de>
_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#71869 - 07/01/03 10:17 PM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hey guys,
Thanks for the input. I wasn't trying to talk about the sex, that wasn’t my intent. It’s the emptiness I feel now having come to see emotionless sex as just worthless, when once it at least filled a void. Erik, I agree with you 100 percent about sex being spontaneous. That would be my choice, but I'm very tired of being alone. Joe, looking forward, I also want to see the glass as half full, but the other half I fear may be pretty empty. The last thing I want now is to find myself hiding from the world again ‘cause there is nothing out there for me, so why bother.

Please don't get me wrong, I agree with both of you wholeheartedly and I'm not defending what I did, it is something I did once before many years ago. I'm not proud of attempting it either.

Maybe, in some way, the feelings I'm left with from what I couldn't do last night is a good sign I may be recovering. I don't know. This too shall pass I guess. Stay well y’all.

_________________________
Michael

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#71870 - 07/01/03 11:20 PM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
Sans Logos Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5791
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Michael,

How well I know the pain and confusion of being in the place that you describe.

For my part, loneliness drove me to such disappointing lengths. For the longest time I had the urgency to couple, and when I did, I would ultimately lose a good many years of my life, wasted on a dead end street, when I could have been spending my life dealing with my issues, and getting healthier. I am not proud to admit one of my isms was that of relationship junkie.

Seems none of us dealing the effects of this dis-ease is immune to these issues. They just play themselves out differently in our unique set of circumstances.

Quote:
It has made question if I am at heart gay, it has made me ask, since last night, what would it be like to be able to love. Another question I've been asking myself is which is worse, to have loved and lost or to have never known how to love?
There's something there: If you have never known how to love, then you can never have loved and lost. So maybe the focus would be to decide what it means to you to love.

That is the crossroads where I found myself one moment in time, and that was the moment that I was finally able to put down the cross I had been dragging behind me for so long. I realized that I had to forget about the rest of the world, and look deep inside and see what was real for me. I know that sounds like a Whitney Houston cliche, but really, until I learn to love [ie:trust] me, then what kind of authenticity would I continue to attract in my outer reality? And I realized that that authenticity was something that I really, deeply wanted. It would be my haven from manipulation, either by me or of me. The place where I could determine what the rules of the game would be. It would be a place of justice, compassion and honesty.

This thinking has not gotten me any dates, but it has kept me from tying new ties to a past moment in time, and creating new baggage that would stick to me like gum to a shoe.

It has been hard to accept the alone-ness of my life, but don't think for a moment that this is lonely. Hell, I was lonely before when I settled for false intimacy. But then, when I lost interest in meaningless relationships, I thought that I would dare to dream that there is life beynd coupling. I know we are hard wired for community, but does that really mean one on one relationships? I thought that because the most powerful relationship I ever experienced was one on one. The day I was initiated by my older brother was the day that immutably changed the course of my emotional perceptions and proclivities. But one day, I woke up and said, I don't want to want this anymore! It is too binding! And that became a prayer for change. From that, I dared to dream that there must be some other way for me to "be".

Sure, I want a special someone in my life and heart. But that person has got to be reasonable, and they have got to be able to give no less than I would give of myself to them. So I guess I may as well just fuhgitabowdit for now, and wait and see if the universe has any designs for me to couple.

In the meantime, I want to want something else much more passionately than I want a lover. I want friends like you all, who offer a soft shoulder, and who will take mine, and best of all, I want "me".

Please be patient with yourself. You are doing just great, and I am so glad to see you are here struggling, rather than being off on your own dealing with this crap. Please have safe times, whatever you do, because believe it or not, you deserve to be alive, fully, passionately alive; that was the original plan for you, before someone came along an screwed it all up.

Your brother in the struggle,

Ron

_________________________
  1. the past
  2. ReClaiming Now
  3. advocacy


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#71871 - 07/02/03 02:07 AM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Michael,

Your posting hit home with me. I feel much the

same a lot of the time. I am so goddamned tired

of being alone. I have also tried the ways of

others--bath houses, one night stands etc. They

never really gave me what I sought; but I would

try them again anyway. They say that's one

definition of insanity.....repeating the same

behavior and expecting diferent results.

It seems that I really must let go of what I

grasp in one hand before I can reach out with the

my other hand for what the future holds, what is

different and new.

What I'm letting go of is familiar but

but not very satisfying. What I am

reaching out for is unseen and unknown to me.

Without my unwanted old behavior what will I be?

Sort of like the hole in the donut?

I don't know what I'll be, but I do know

that most days I am ready to take the risk and

let go of the old familiar while reaching out for

the new unknown.

It is in those moments in between when I out there suspended in mid air, in between lives,

that the faith I get from people like you keeps

me up in the air.

I'm so glad you talked about this--it has been

over two years since I have been sexually intimate

with another man. And I want that kind of

intimacy so much that it hurts.

It hurts a little less when i come here and talk

about it with someone like you and the others who

understand.

Take it easy, brother. There's intimacy here for

us. And it doesn't end with an orgasm and a

wiping up. It stays with me and doesn't leave me

feeling ashamed. That's the kind of sexual

intimacy I want too.

I've learned the most about intimacy with a man

from my Al Anon sponsor, who is one of the first

men I ever told about the sexual abuse in my life.

There's no sex, no orgasm, no frenzy of pleasure

seeking.

There is a deep sense of connection, of belonging,

of being loved for who I am and not what I do or

how well I perform.

That's my experience......I still really

want to have sex again and I look forward to that

day......but now I know that the sex is only

going to satisfy me when it comes as the

natural result of love and not as the prelude to

it.

I also try to remember (very hard for me to do,

but I practice) that God is involved in my sex

life too. I try to give him some room to work in.

Take care, Michael. you are in the right place

and you're asking the right questions and yes it

is hard. As I like to say, "If this was so

fucking easy, we'd all been doing it a long time

ago."

Wishing you warmth, comfort and intimacy,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71872 - 07/02/03 02:25 AM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
bowman Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/03
Posts: 72
Michael,
Thanks for posting this topic. I saw myself in a lot of what everyone posted. I don't know what to add. It used to piss me off too much to say that I even wanted relationships, but I really think being profoundly alone can kill you. Now I'm just trying to keep relating honestly and with integrity to the people I find around me.
Ken B.


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#71873 - 07/02/03 02:44 AM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
Sleepy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 288
Loc: Arizona, USA
Ken,
I read this post over and over, and all I wanted to do was say something relevant. Unfortunatly nothing seemed to materialize even though the topic of aloneness is very important to me. I, too, try to simply be open and sincere with people. That way I can at least develop the most fulfilled relationships possible. And maybe the right partner will one day enter my life.
mike

_________________________
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."
--Ursula K. Le Guin

"Mental health is a commitment to reality at all times."
--M. Scott Peck

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#71874 - 07/02/03 10:09 AM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
outis Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/27/03
Posts: 2260
Loc: Maryland USA
Quote:
all I wanted to do was say something relevant
Mike,

You did:

Quote:
even though the topic of aloneness is very important to me
Later,

Joe

_________________________
"Telemachos, your guest is no discredit to you. I wasted no time in stringing the bow, and I did not miss the mark. My strength is yet unbroken…"—The Odyssey, translated by W.H.D. Rouse

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#71875 - 07/02/03 04:55 PM Re: Wondering about sex - trigger
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Michael, you surely started one of the most beautiful threads I have seen in a long time. All you men seem to me, to be such good and decent guys, and, really, very loveable men.

You all speak of wanting to be loved by someone, and wanting that, a sexual relationship might flow from that, or maybe not. It seems to me, who has never married nor been in a serious relationship, that the normal way of liking someone, getting to know them, liking them even more and realizing that they feel the same way about you, and being able to express that in many ways, is still the best and wisest approach.

Most of the old timers here know that I am a Cathoic Priest.
I have been a Franciscan since 1958--yes, I know, ancient histroy for most of you. I chose to live a life that would not involve an individual relationship with one person for life. There are times when I have felt an agonizing lonliness and wondered if I had made the right choice.

Possible trigger--God talk

Of course, I felt that God had called me to this life and would give me the grace I needed..sometimes I have wondered, but most of the time, I do feel I was called to make what is the perfect choice for me.

End of possible trigger

I think that the only thing that has kept me from going nuts is that I have learned that if I am to live a life without a partner, then I have to find a way to fill at least some of the emptiness. For me, that has been in serving people. I have met thousands of people of all ages. Some I have known for a very long time and keep the relationship going. Others were kind of, what a Protestant minister called, serial relationships. He was one of those, a good friend, then we both moved to different parts of the country to work and lost contact with each other. Those are difficult. It is difficult each Spring when a class of students graduate and really leave my life for good. It is a mixed thing, pride in their accomplishments, but sadness to shake their hand or hug them and say "goodbye" and know it really is "goodbye."

I could ceretainly be wrong, but I think that an intimate relationship- with one person would have smothered me. I don't think I could put all that it takes, to make that work, into any relationship, even with folks I have most dearly loved. I think I need to not be tied down to one person like that. That makes me free to love many, but at a less intimate level. There are good and bad to that, but I think it has worked for me.

Others, thankfully, clearly do not choose that path. I would think that, a person called to a single, permanent, intimate relationship would find it sheer torture to go for years without a loving partner. I know nothing of this though.

What I do know is that I think the men here are really great men. I find all of us, me included, to be likeable and loveable men. Each of us, in our own way will surely find the person, or that special way of life that will be very life-giving and fulfilling. I have to believe that for each of you as well as for myself.

A woman, who is one of those friends that I will laways love in a special love, tells me that I do not know the only lonliness. She tells me that she feels lonliest after making wonderful love with her husband, then wanting to talk about something important, and he says, "lets not talk now."
I suspect she has a point there. They got counseling and she tells me that does not happen anymore--hasn't for years.

I guess the point is, we will all have some lonliness in life at times. But it should not crush us. That is not good aloneness, that is bad lonliness and we are not made for that.

Yes, I know, I write too much. All I wanted to say is that this thread was so inspiring to me, you are so inspiring to me.

Long winded Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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