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#71840 - 06/23/03 11:47 PM What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
The following is the response (with only a couple of edits) to a PM that I had with another member.

His take was that the televised/reported depiction of gay people from the SF pride parade, et al... leaves a bad taste in the mouths of people from all over.

My response as follows...

Hi,

Glad I have your curiousity peaked!

Talk about me being in good spirits, you appear to be coping much better as well and for that I am thankful.

OK,

First,

Pride is about the ability to be who you are without the constraint of society's mores and morals. This does not mean that it is necessary that one needs to be immoral but then true morality does not come from religion but from the heart.

Second,

Toward the end of this PM is a partial list of the persons, organizations and themes in this years event (As well as previous parades).

I ask you to review that list as well as the complete list and tell me, "How many of the following would embarass us? What is the ratio? Now which do the media show and why? Would a church have the same effect to sell papers? Would anyone drape themselves on a couch to see breast cancer survivors?

Get my point?

I ask you who is REALLY at fault for the portrayal of gays and lesbians in the media? More importantly, our parade is for us... not the midwest, the east, Malaysia or the Czech Republic. It is for us. To celebrate what we have accomplished. Remember, we have no control over your media in 'STATE', you do! (Course you could also just move out here!)

While I too get a little... 'disturbed' at some images... oh say seeing a mentally handicapped person for example (my own messed up head space) we have to challenge ourselves to think, "What is the real harm here? The "different person or me?"

Finally, I ask your permission to post this PM in the public section of this site.

I think that it is VERY important for people to realize who we really are and more importantly, what we REALLY stand for... Equality and inclusion for all! If the media allows you to see all that attend, the 'freaks' lose their sting on the event.

One day, I hope to march in the parade with my "I am a Male Survivor of Sexual Abuse placard so that we no longer sit in silence".

SIDE NOTE: Last year, the list included Sir Ian McKellan (Magneto) What kid wouldn't get a kick from that? \:\)


Partial List As Follows

Women's Motorcyle Contingent 500+ women on motorcyles, begun 25 or so years ago, and originally called "Dykes on Bikes"

Mikes on Bikes Informal, lively, diverse group of queer boys on bicycles.

San Francisco Bike Messengers Association

AIDS Lifecycle 2 50-70 members of the AIDS LifeCycle 2 Tour.

Cheer San Francisco Adult cheerleading team that performs nationally and

internationally, raising funds for direct care agencies throught the Cheer

Alexander Hamilton Post 448 American Legion Support group for LGBT war veterans.

"No On 6 Reunion" - Briggs Initiative Members from the No On 6/Briggs Initiative fight, 25 years ago, carrying the front banner.

SFLGBTPCC Inc. - Theme Float San Francisco's annual LGBT Pride celebration and parade committee.

San Francisco Lesbian/Gay Freedom Band The San Francisco Lesbian/Gay Freedom Band is the first openly GLBTIQQ music organization in the world, celebrating its 25th anniversary

San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus San Francisco's Gay Mens Chorus

Theatre Rhinoceros Longest running Queer theatre in the world

Rainbow25 2-block rainbow flag, part of the Ocean-to-Ocean flag across Florida

Maupin, Armistead - Celebrity Grand Marshal Noted author, famous for his "Tales of the City" series of novels, about gay life and San Francisco.

Gomez, Marga - Celebrity Grand Marshal Famous local lesbian comedian and actress

Marlene, Vicki - Grand Marshal 1 Fundraiser extraordinare for charities such as PAWS,

the AIDS Emergency Fund and the Breast Cancer Emergency Fund

Gatto, Marina - Grand Marshal 2 14 year old gay rights activist. Starred in the Nickelodeon special "My Family is Different" with Rosie O'Donnell

Person-Harris, Terry - Grand Marshal 3 A seasoned community leader with over twenty years experience in anti-violence movements

Wilson, Hank - Grand Marshal 4 3 decades of activism and community building. He teamed to found Gay Teachers Coalition & Community United Against Violence among others

Williams, Cecil - Grand Marshal 5 Has challenged and raised the limits of spirituality, compassion and diversity as the Pastor of Glide Memorial United Methodist Church

Marriage Equality California - Grand Marshal 6 MECA is committed to legalizing same sex marriage & securing equal rights for LGBT

BAAITS-Bay Area American Indian Two Spirits Cultural and social outreach group of LBGT and/or Two Spirit native Americans

GAPA - Gay Asian Pacific Alliance Furthering interests of gay and bisexual Asian/Pacific
Islanders by creating awareness

San Francisco LGBT Community Center The social, cultural, and political focal point of the SF LGBT community. Board, staff, volunteers, and members marching

Brown Jr., Willie L. - Mayor Mayor of San Francisco

Norcal Waste System Norcal Waste Systems, Inc. the parent company to Sunset Scavenger and Golden Gate Disposal and Recycling Companies

New Leaf Services Counseling center for the LGBT community: Senior services, youth services, mental health counseling, substance abuse couseling

Wells Fargo Local Bay Area employees in support of LGBT Pride

UCSF AIDS Health Project Mental health agency serving over 10,000 people a year

Triangle TaeKwon Do Club We are a not-for-profit community based martial arts and self-defense training organization that primarily targets the LGBTQ community

Migden, Carole - Chairwoman BOE Chairwoman Carole Migden and 100 supporters

AIDS Emergency Fund Float idea is: Queen Of Hearts. We plan to have a "Queen" singing from our float which will be followed by our contingent of vocalists

FTM International Support, networking, and education for and about female-to-male transsexuals, transgendered people, and their friends, families

TGSF-Transgender San Francisco Over 20 years as a non-sexual member based organization serving Bay Area with educational, social and recreational needs

Leno, Mark - Assemblyman

Alice B Toklas Democratic Club

API Wellness Center Asian & Pacific Islander Wellness Center's mission is to educate, support, empower and advocate for Asian & Pacific Islander

Imperial Council of San Francisco, Inc., The Reigning Emperor Michael Parsons and Empress Snatch

Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, The

Out Against The War Anit-war group coalition of queer groups and individuals opposed to war

Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club

Ammiano, Tom - Supervisor

Pride At Work/AFL-CIO LGBT labor advocacy group

Birds of Paradise Spreading word of the tradition of Carnaval (Brazilian holiday) as a joyous celebration of life

Most Holy Redeemer Church Catholic Church and AIDS support group

Log Cabin Club of San Francisco Predominantly gay Republican volunteer organization.

Straights for Gay Rights Founded 27 yrs ago to politically support LGBT community

KRON4 Bay Area television station, televisors of the Parade

Balloon Girls The Balloon Girls were a crime crazy girl gang of the 70's and 80's Known for their slumber partys, Folsom fair and others

Smirnoff Twist - Diego Smirnoff Twist Vodka float

San Francisco Leather Contingent Leather clubs, organizations., businesses, motorcyclists and independent marchers

SOMA Bare Chest Calendar Produces the SOMA barechest calendar which benefits Positive

Resource Center and the AIDS Emergency Fund

Positive Resource Center Provides benefits counseling and employment services for people with HIV/AIDS

Bears of San Francisco Charitable organization promoting friendship and fraternity

Ark of Refuge The Ark of Refuge Mentorship Program is a program that provides positive and healthy mentoring support for gay men and Transgenders

Showtime which is a national premium cable network, their float celebrates their gay programming

Bethany United Methodist Church We are a progressive church in Noe Valley with a membership that is half g/l/b/t and half straight

Chronicle, The San Francisco Local, daily newspaper. Float with 14 newspaper boys and a marching contingent of employees

Newsom, Gavin - Supervisor

Starbucks "Starbucks Frappucino in Bloom" - Partners/Employees on float, enjoying the parade

PFLAG (Parents & Friends of Lesbians and Gays - Providing support, education and advocacy through chapter activities

Freedom In Christ Evangelical Church of San Francisco Non-denominational Christian church comprised of Christians who are gay

Peskin, Aaron & Maxwell, Sophie - Supervisors President and members of the Board of Supervisors

Altoids National candy company

San Francisco Fog RFC First rugby club in Western U.S. established to invite members from traditionally under-represented groups

Pro-Latino De San Jose

Our Family Coalition Members of Our Family Coalition and COLAGE - LGBT families - some with children in strollers

Team Bank of America

The list goes on and on...


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#71841 - 06/24/03 01:06 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Previously titled,

Thread Post Pending


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#71842 - 06/24/03 01:45 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
andrew-almost52 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 243
Loc: canada
Hi Marc, I read your post about the Gay Pride Parade etc. I agree with a number of your points but feel it was a bit over the top to give us the great big list. I also would have thought this would be a topic better placed in the Gay Survivor Section (I just noticed it has been). Isn't the parade the last Sunday in June? I suppose the ideal would be for the 'parade' to be unnecessary. Here in Canada we have a charter of rights that seems to be addressing some of the gay issues of contention, just recently we had a court decision that allows people of the same gender to marry .... a big step. Hopefully, in time, the gay pride parade will be nothing but a distant memory, if only because there will be no societal value differences made between gays or straights or anything in between. Peace, Andrew


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#71843 - 06/24/03 01:58 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
OK, Marc,

I wrote a really cool reply completely supporting you the ideas in your post----then I tried to post it----no way, it was now locked and my cool message got lost.

Oh well, that's sort of the way it is, n'est-ce pas?

Remember that Elvis song "In the Ghetto....".

But back to the point. Glad to see the thread reappear in Gay Survivors.

REMEMBER:

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GAY TO SUFFER FROM
HOMOPHOBIA.

Once again I recommend to all male survivors the very good piece by Kali Munro

Male to Male Child Sexual Abuse in the Context of Homophobia by Kali Munro, M.Ed.

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71844 - 06/24/03 02:02 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
P.S.

I'll walk with you in the parade and help carry the sign. Would you hold my hand? That way I won't be so scared. \:\)

"LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY"
-UNKOWN

With support and affection for all my brothers,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71845 - 06/24/03 02:46 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
At least they've left a closed copy in the main and have a redirect for posts. \:\)

Thank you mods. I totally understand.

This is not the place for controversy but I wanted to show the similarities of survivorphobia to homophobia.


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#71846 - 06/24/03 06:11 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Yes, Marc, I was going to mention that also.

Thanks moderators for your excellent care and service to us all.

Marc, I guess I want to tell you, brother, that your attitude of proud defiance is a real good thing for this gay survivor.

The years of choking back my gay identity has left me pretty damaged--feeling less than; not valuable. And kind of pissed off. OK, a lot pissed off.

And gay men who have been sexually abused don't have the right to be pissed off do they? That's the lie I told myself for so many years.

It was my gayness that caused me to be attracted to my abuser wasn't it? That's the story I told myself for so many years.

There's this awful feeling that I caused it (take your pick, the sexual abuse or being gay), I should be able to control it(same choices) or be able to cure it (same two choices).

It seems to me that homophobia has very serious negative consequences for lots of people, not just gays. One of those highest on that list would be male survivors of male on male sexual abuse.
But we are not alone in this.

The slogan I used :

"YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE GAY TO SUFFER FROM HOMOPHOBIA"

got a touching response from a gay man in my group.

He looked up and said, "Yeah, Amanda (his 10 year old daughter) suffers a lot from what happens as a result of homophobia."

The idea of a sweet 10 year daughter of a caring responsibile father who happens to be gay, being tormented by people at school is enough to make me willing to stand up and say, "Enough!".

Don't want to stir things up too much, but I hope that I'm misinterpreting all this.

Surely, we don't view the struggle against the hatred of homophobia as a 'controversy'. Or as a topic that is marginal to the issues of male survivors of sexual abuse?

The right of a 10 year old girl to not be tormented by homophobic bigots makes it a reality for me that cannot be subsumed by a fear of causing some minor irritation or discomfort.

Or am I just totally off-base here?

Leaving aside the question of the parade or any specific means of expression, let me ask this question for whomever will be willing to answer.

Would you say that the organization of MaleSurvivor views the bigotry of homophobia as a serious contributing factor to the suffering of male survivors of male on male sexual abuse?

It just seems so logical to me, it never occurred to me that anyone here would feel uncomfortable with the IDEA of correcting the gross ignorance of homophobia as an essential element in helping all survivors, gay, straight or in-between.

I'm in a pretty depressed state today, got a strep infection, not sleeping, feeling pretty lonely so it's entirely possible that I just got my knickers in a wad over this.

If any of this offends, disturbs or triggers others I ask your understanding and acceptance.

I'm hurting here and don't want to hurt anyone else.

Peace and justice for us all,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71847 - 06/26/03 02:08 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
michaelb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
HEY MARC.....thought you were going to post my thoughts....I am the person who believes the parade does a great disservice to gay people around the world especially to young gay people coming to terms with their sexuality...

i remember seeing that display on the nighly news when i was a teenager and being appalled....i felt attraction towards guys, but sure as hell did not see myself in any of the "freaks" that were displayed on the news....i sure as hell was not a cross dresser or leather bike type......i was just a pretty good athlete who was attracted to guys.....but being encompassed in a highly homophobic arena such as organized sports i was totally unable/unwilling to accept myself.....hell, it is 20 years later and nothing has changed.....i do not see myself in any portrayal i've ever seen of a gay guy.....after going on a few dates with guys and having no interest in engaging in sex with any of them, i just realized that my homophobia was not the cause of my celibacy, guess i have the sexual abuse to thank for that.....

my contention is that "NORMAL AMERICA" sees that parade exhibition and it just reinforces their stereotypical viewpoints of gay people as sexually promiscuous, cross dressing, sex starved individuals.....gay people question why straight people fear homosexuality?????? look at that parade and you will understand straight america's fears.....

now put yourself in a 16 year old's shoes trying to understand their same sex feelings and seeing the gay pride parade......i knew i sure as hell did not identify with anything/anybody i viewed in that spectacle.....of course, i do not relate to anybody on that gay pbs show either (do they realize there is a big world outside of new york and san francisco????)......i just think the parade does much harm to people's perception of gay people, especially to young people who have so few gay role models.....especially boys, how many gay role models exist for boys??????? very few and to be honest, most of those individuals are quite flamboyant, a characteristic i sure as hell do not share.....

i just think the spectacle of the bizzarre behavior of that parade on the nightly news does quite a bit more harm than help in the cause for equal rights for gay people..........michael


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#71848 - 06/26/03 04:25 PM Re: What if they gave a Male Survivors parade and nobody came?
Marc Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 256
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Michael,

Quote:
HEY MARC.....thought you were going to post my thoughts....I am the person who believes the parade does a great disservice to gay people around the world especially to young gay people coming to terms with their sexuality...
Why would I do that? This way pulled you back to the web site so that you could deliver your own message personally! ;\)

Quote:
i just think the spectacle of the bizzarre behavior of that parade on the nightly news does quite a bit more harm than help in the cause for equal rights for gay people..........michael
I don't think that it has done any harm at all. Look how far we have come in just 17 years!

Supreme Court Strikes Down Gay Sex Ban

For me it wasn't my own perceptions of the Gay Pride events that caused my discomfort, it was society's at large!

Honestly I paid so little attention to the leather guys and the drag queens and more attention to how other people saw them. Much to my chagrin. That shames me most of all!

I like to think that I have been a role model for Gay boys and girls in spite of the insanity of the abuse that I went through.

...and FYI, I sometimes wear leather though only once have I done drag... I was really surprised at how good I looked! But it is NOT de riguer for me to wear anything but jeans and a t-shirt.


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