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#71779 - 06/03/03 12:52 PM Don't know at all...
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
I read a post in another thread here, I can't remember which one it was now, but it was about father-longing. I indentified well. A lot of the time I wonder if I'm really gay or if I'm just searching for love coming from a man. My father loved me. He was all I had when I was little, but then I grew up and he got farther and farther away and I wanted him back so badly... and then he killed himself, and I was all alone. I think I had homosexual tendencies before his death but I don't remember this longing or this aching...

I don't know who I am. I just don't know. I don't think I'll ever know. I am attracted to men but I don't know if it's a genuine thing or if I'm just looking for someone to replace my father. It's hard to put this into words. I am not just attracted to the idea of a man but to the man himself which makes me think perhaps I really just am gay but then I read these posts and I don't know...

This isn't making sense. I'm sorry. It's really hard to find the right words.

Sometimes I wonder if I am attracted to women underneath all the trauma that my mother caused. I get this sense now and then that perhaps I am. But men seem safer to me; although they hurt me too, it was always in a physical way and they never fucked with my mind like my mom did. I feel safer with men. I am desperate for a man to love me and protect me and care for me and I'm worried that's just because I didn't get all I needed from my father especially in such an awful childhood situation.

Ok... I found the post I was talking about. It's from the "another hour of my life wasted" thread.

Quote:
RickL said:
What's attractive about a hairy chest? To me it denotes something "fatherly" and "warm". The child in me wants the comfort and the affirmation, not the sex.
I think it's something like that, for me. But I don't know. I can't tell. I'm so confused.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71780 - 06/03/03 07:34 PM Re: Don't know at all...
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hi Josh,
I think it was you that started a post on the present. Seemed you were on to something, this dimension of time so oblivious to that which came before and that to come. Like you, I am stuck in both cusps of time questioning my every move.

Then another post discussed the present being all we have and how it should be enjoyed fully for what it is.

It would seem we've come so accustomed to questioning ourselves, conditioned to think we are at fault, that what we do is bad and we wind up questioning the motives of our desires; if we like it it must be wrong.

Now and again, I get weird thoughts that once in awhile tend to make sense. "It is difficult to put behind us a past that continuously, unconsciously confronts, conflicts and corrupts everything we do in the present.

"The past has never left me. The past is always present pulling me apart."

Maybe it's not so bad to be gay. Maybe the grass IS greener not being gay. Maybe it's better just going both ways. Just enjoy the moment and follow your heart.

Definitely easier to write about it. I'm with you in being conflicted however...

Michael

PS: I thought what you wrote in your letter the other day was very fine, it's a wonder you can function at all. Keep progressing, you're an inspiration. Thanks!! I'm learning so much from you and all others here at MS.

Mike

_________________________
Michael

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#71781 - 06/03/03 10:37 PM Re: Don't know at all...
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Hi Josh,
I'm sorry that you are in so much pain. I have felt that also for quite a while. So I wanted to tell you thanks for the subject. If you don't mind, I'd like to share a little of my experience, hoping that it might help and comfort you.
I am a gay man. I was firat sexually abused by a male caregiver from age 15-22. There were other incidents later, but he was the first. He was 55.
I never told anyone about it, until I was 40.

I dated women and then finally got the courage to seek what I wanted which was intimacy with a man.

I have never had any doubts abut my sexual orientation; though I had a lot of difficulty accepting and expressing it. I remember at a very young age, 3 or 4, having fantasies of men (non-sexual).

However, because of the sexual exploitation and the secrets I hid, I continue to have sexual difficulties to this day. Such as being honest in sexual situations. I tend to automatically go into some sort of performance role--seeking to please the other party--instead of expressing my love and attraction. I have never explored my own sexual feelings, but continue instead to repeat behavior that leaves me unhappy and dissatisfied. It really sucks--and not in a good way!

With my therapist, I'm beginning to see how I associate all the negatives about my abuse with being gay----which is really bad since I am gay.
Also, of course, I know intellectually that the abuser was not gay--he hated gay menj--he was a pederast, a pedophile, a criminal, mentally and emotionally sick.

With that type of association, it's easy to end up with a lot self loathing, and self hatred. None of those make a good partner for anyone, hetereo or homo sexual. And I have the scars to prove it!! It doesn't seem possible for me to "think" my way out of these self defeating attitudes.
But I'm working my way out of it, I hope.
Recently, my T asked me to write a list,

"What is wrong with gay men?"

I had no trouble at all relating how it seemed that a gay man would do anything to anyone to have sex; that they lie, and keep secrets; that they cannot be trusted; are manipulative; superficial and only interested in casual sex, drinking and drugs; that they are unclean and carry diseases; and it's just generally not a good way to be.

After I wrote this list, I examined it again from the view point of what the abuser had done to me. Those were all the feelings I had about what had happened.

I looked again and saw that it also expressed many of the negative feelings I have toward myself and my sexual life (if I had one!). I had a lot of stuff mixed up and still do. It's not easy to get rid of those old attitudes.

Here's some of what has helped me. I joined a gay mens therapy group--there are about 7 of us.

I have gotten to know close up gay men who love their children, who would never ever harm anyone sexually, who are sensitive, kind and good citizens. I love these guys and they have loved and supported me----all in a non-sexual, very safe environment. Our group leader therapist is gay.

I went to a therapist to work specifically on how my CSA affects my attitude toward my own homosexuality. It has been amazing. I've been in therapy for about 5 years, but this year was the first I've ever had specifically about this subject with a gay male therapist.
And it seems to be helping dramatically.

My faith community does not accept homosexuality.
I quit going around there. I did not quit believing in the spiritual principles, but simply do not expose myself to that negative reinforcement.

I treat myself as worthy, loveable and in need of love and tenderness. That helps me a lot, though not always easy to do.
I feel less hatred today for myself and others.
I have hope that I may have an intimate relationship with a man that is healthy and healing. I love men and I miss the warmth and strength that I feel from them.

But I couldn't solve the sexual problems without first addressing specifically the abuse with professional help and a patient and loving support group.

So, buddy, you're in the right place and you're asking the right questions. My experience is that as I focus on repairing the damage of the SA, the other parts of my life don't seem nearly as daunting. It's astonishing how much energy and life the effects of sexual abuse rob from us.

I'm taking mine back so I can stop allowing the abuse free rent in my head. It's not easy, I'm pretty new at it. I'm lonely, scared and feel like crying a lot.

Sounds like I'm in the right place too, huh?

You are doing exactly the next right thing for yourself. Keep up the courageous work and the other stuff will follow. You have our support and our love.

Your brother and fellow member,

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71782 - 06/03/03 10:40 PM Re: Don't know at all...
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
It sounds like you are searching and trying to place all the pieces of your life together which I think can be a good thing. At times I probably doubt everything about myself and sometimes it is just hard to accept myself. Just wanted you to know that you weren't alone in accepting yourself, I'm right there with you.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71783 - 06/04/03 05:40 PM Re: Don't know at all...
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Josh,

Quote:
My father loved me. He was all I had when I was little...
And I'm hoping you loved him back. I surely do understand the longing for fatherly, safe, warm nuturing. Whatever has happened over your life, you had his love back then. Too little? You needed more? Maybe, but you had that. It has, I'm guessing, given you a better foundation to living and being a caring human being then you realize.

I can't say my father ever loved me. You can Josh.

It's worth a whole lot, hang onto it as best you can. It's a set of memories that no one can take away from you. I'm tempted to suggest an exercise for you and your partner - when you're feeling really down and out - and he's in a space able to to comfort you - let him hold you and rock you and say "your father loved you", over and over. Sure it's likely to bring the watershed of tears, but maybe some little bit of peace and healing for you. Maybe something like this would help you find the answer to your question.

jer


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#71784 - 06/04/03 06:03 PM Re: Don't know at all...
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Mike,

When I first read your post yesterday, the following quoted sentences really jumped out to me as applicable to me and any survivor struggling with recovery.

Quote:
It would seem we've come so accustomed to questioning ourselves, conditioned to think we are at fault, that what we do is bad and we wind up questioning the motives of our desires; if we like it it must be wrong.
How true this is.

Quote:
Now and again, I get weird thoughts that once in awhile tend to make sense. "It is difficult to put behind us a past that continuously, unconsciously confronts, conflicts and corrupts everything we do in the present.
Oh boy, this says it all for me about as succinctly as it can be phrased. It makes soooo much sense to me I can't stand it the truth of it.

Am I the only one in an epic battle of internal conflict and strife?

I occasionally win a skirmish, but I keep getting pushed back to my cave where it's dark and not about living.

How do you other men find the strength to continue the battles, the efforts toward healing?


Quote:
"The past has never left me. The past is always present pulling me apart."
When I allow it to reign over me. This for me is true in that I was a victim once, but do have a choice now about what I do. My past will, I'm thinking, always be attempting to pull me down and apart. I don't suppose it ever dies, hopefully it'll fade away into unimportance.


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#71785 - 06/04/03 08:32 PM Re: Don't know at all...
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hi Guy,
Thanks, and no to what you asked, "Am I the only one in an epic battle of internal conflict and strife?"

Things have been so good the last few weeks, so unbelievably good I thought just unlocking my past set me free to some extent. Today was the first day I started thinking about the quantity of a drug I need to opt out of this madness.

As much as I want a new life with a caring, honest relationship with another man, or woman if that happens, an ability to keep rage away from rearing its ugly self and more control over my choice of words when I get frustrated, I regress to the acting out of a 6 year old. And porn and poppers are perfect together with my other self lately.

Actually, the poppers I was on my way to get today, but I feel good in talking myself out of that. Sexually, I'm drawn. While I do want the relationship, I also want no male organs. Not to TG in anyway, I'm not at all effeminate, but to remove my perverted desires.

Hey, how ya doin? Good, thanks for asking.
Are you okay? Yeah, I'm fine.
Why are you so mad? Iím not mad.
You okay? YEAH, leave me alone, okay?

Talk about conflicted!!

Michael

_________________________
Michael

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#71786 - 06/05/03 03:59 PM Re: Don't know at all...
Freedom Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 164
Loc: US
Josh,

It is not a suprise that you are confused given what wou lived through.

Give yourself time. Learn to be there for yourself. You are so young that you can do so much with your life.

You can learn to take care of you. I know about the search for a parent. I had a period when that seemed to drive it all. I found bits and pieces in other people but what I was missing from my own parent, I cannot get. I think I have accepted that.

Now I am learning to take care of me. It has been tough and scary but I am doing that, some days better and some days not so well.

You do not have to be perfect. Just be. Take your time. Deep down you can find the right answers.

It does not matter how many times you slip. Get up and try again.

Safe hug,
Freedom.

_________________________
Life is moving on. AM I?

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