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#71774 - 05/26/03 11:51 PM Thanks for the welcome, guys
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I appreciate the warm welcome from you all.
You've made it easier for me to be here and I value your openness.
I chose to post on the gay survivors board, I guess because I've discovered that I have a pretty low opinion of gay men--which includes myself.
I've been "out" for a long time intellectually; but am just now learning I need to separate the abuse of power that we call "sexual abuse" from my need/desire for love and intimacy that expresses itself in my homosexuality.
I have tried very hard to alternately reject, deny, downplay, ignore, flaunt, and numb out the effects of sexual abuse on my feelings about myself. I found out that I don't necessarily hate myself for being gay--more for being sexual, for "allowing" myself to be taken ina nd deceived by my own sexual desires.
In short, it's good for me to have a safe place to communicate with other men--gay or straight or whatever.
I have made a lot of progress--especially since I quit trying to anesthesize my feelings with drugs and alcohol.
I have somewhat successfully stopped getting into really sick, unhealthy relationships--either with men who I use to try and keep me secure or men who leave me feeling used. You know the really, really unavailable types---married, in the closet, drunk, emotionally crippled or just down right cruel.
I don't choose that for myself today. However, I'm hoping to learn to do more than just survive and avoid distressful situations.
I'd like to learn to love myself. Then love another man as an equal--as an adult.
Looks like you all might have some things to show me about that.
And I thank you again for sharing yourselves with me.

Danny

--------------

"La nuit est aussi un soleil." Nietsche
"Night is also a sun."

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71775 - 05/27/03 11:59 PM Re: Thanks for the welcome, guys
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Danny, it seems to be a battle we all fight, to feel good about ourselves, to really believe that we are gifted men who have learned many lessons because of what we have endured.

I suspect it is difficult for men who were raped to experience anal lovemaking as safe. I am sure I would flip out. But men do get to the point where they do not have flashbacks when making love.

One thing I hope you can do is to realise that you don't need anymore crap from anyone. Maybe you need to get to a point where you will consider if a partner is worthy of you. Not in an arrogant way, but in the way that you are looking for loving, caring relationships. If they are only interested in the sexual part of a relationship, well then I guess you will let him know that he does not measure up to your standards, and wish him well.

A therapist once asked me to look in the mirror every morning, pinch my cheek gently and say: "Damn, I'm good!" I guess some guys get to a point where they can believe it. It didn't work for me. But I don't need to do that because I already know that I am good, even better than many and not as good as others but still darn good. You are a good man Danny. If it helps tell yourself that until you truly believe it.

But don't compare yourself to others, e. g. no one will ever be as good looking as I am!!!!!!

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#71776 - 05/28/03 12:04 AM Re: Thanks for the welcome, guys
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Danny you will be ok brother wolf. Self respect is something we all seek and we will help each other find it here. You will get support and brotherly love and maybe the odd boot in the butt when you need it. But remember if that happens it is from our affection for you.

Just stay with us and heal brother wolf

aaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooeeeeeeyup

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#71777 - 05/28/03 01:03 PM Re: Thanks for the welcome, guys
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
Dear Bob,

Thanks for the encouraging word.

I suspect it is difficult for men who were raped to experience anal lovemaking as safe. I am sure I would flip out. But men do get to the point where they do not have flashbacks when making love.

What seems to have happened to me regarding lovemaking is that I tend to ignore my feelings, sort of disassociate, and assume one of the two roles I learned early on--dominant, aggressive, on top and somewhat callous. Or passively needy, wanting, and seeking to model whatever behavior I sense my partner wants. In both cases, I am not in touch with my feelings, my partner becomes an object and I feel distant and alone. That really sucks for an experience that is supposed to be intimate and bring us closer together.


One thing I hope you can do is to realise that you don't need anymore crap from anyone. Maybe you need to get to a point where you will consider if a partner is worthy of you.

Bob, I do realize that I don't need that crap--and I'm better at not actively seeking it out. When I was unaware of the effects of the sexual abuse in my life--those effects dominated my response to life--esp. sex--without me knowing it. Now I know that it is happening, that I am being driven by some lessons that I learned from my abuser and take active steps to counteract that bullshit.
Where that leaves me now, is alone--I'm pretty unsure of myself and how to proceed now that I am trying to abandon those old attitudes that drove me for years.

As for rape and anal sex, I was unconcious (in an alcoholic blackout) on several occasions when that happened to me--I awoke in a bed, and asked myself whose blood was on the sheet--it was mine. It's that same sort of place (unconcious, blacked out) that I do emotionally to myself now.
Having sex without feelings of warmth and intimacy is like dancing without music. Hard work and it gets really boring.


But don't compare yourself to others, e. g. no one will ever be as good looking as I am!!!!!!

I try to remember not to compare--I have found tremendous power in identifying and harnessing the power of the group as a remedy for the isolation and despair that have plagued my life.
I believe that you are a very good looking person, without even seeing you, because of the care and kindness in your message. That's the part of us that doesn't necessarily reflect in the mirror, but perhaps in those whose lives we touch.
Thanks for touching my life. It feels better than I can say.

_________________________
"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

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#71778 - 05/28/03 09:06 PM Re: Thanks for the welcome, guys
MEC Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/03
Posts: 62
Loc: NJ
Hi Danny,
Welcome and thanks for saying things better than I could ever do in talking about my own feelings. Everything you've said could have come from my lips.


You write:
"Or passively needy, wanting, and seeking to model whatever behavior I sense my partner wants. In both cases, I am not in touch with my feelings, my partner becomes an object and I feel distant and alone. That really sucks for an experience that is supposed to be intimate and bring us closer together. ... When I was unaware of the effects of the sexual abuse in my life--those effects dominated my response to life--esp. sex--without me knowing it. ... Where that leaves me now, is alone--I'm pretty unsure of myself and how to proceed now that I am trying to abandon those old attitudes that drove me for years. ... Having sex without feelings of warmth and intimacy is like dancing without music. Hard work and it gets really boring."


It's nice to be able to recognize things not real. In my case it would be equally as nice to be able to accept things I can not change.

Keep coming back,
Michael

_________________________
Michael

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