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#71638 - 04/06/03 05:25 AM Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
I have been asking my self this for some time now brothers. As some of you know I am 19 and have a wife. I am having sexual relations issue from my sa. I am unable to have sex with her. I come down once or twice every couple of weeks and masterbeat to gay porn.

Am I gay because I enjoy gay porn? I have had no gay relationships since I was an adult. I love my wife but am I gay?


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#71639 - 04/06/03 06:18 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Ivanhoe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Dear brother Nathan,
Am I remembering that you are seeing a therapist? The reason that I begin this with that comment is that this is such an individual inquiry. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, let me say this about that.
You're such a young man and still forming your sexual self. Some of us--not me, that's for sure, don't seem to have any real questions about who we'd like to go to bed with. Those of us who have had the trauma and the confusion of sex abuse, have to work a lot harder at working out our identities.
This is just me, now, so this may not apply to you, but it might explain how complicated sex abuse can be for some of us.
My therapist explained to me that I seemed to use my thoughts and fears of homosexuality as a way of putting myself down, that I used my negative thoghts about my sexual confusion as a way to punish myself. "You'll never get it right doing it that way," my father always said when I tried to do anything, causing me to doubt whether I was good at anything. Awfully debilitating and undermining for the developing young boy that I was.
I don't know how any of this may apply to you, but because you said that you loved your wife, I'm assuming that you've had somewhat satisfying sex with her in the past. I'm thinking that this is definately something to discuss with your therapist.
Most of us can panic about such issues and it is my hope, Nathan, that you will see yourself as becoming, and give yourself some time to let it happen, and know that with your attitude of wanting to know about yourself, it will happen. You will know your self and I'm betting that you're gunna like what you find. I'm already liking you and I know other brothers here like you too; it may even be love we feel for you, younger brother, Nathan.
You hang in there, you gotta a lot to give and I'll bet you gunna get just what you want, too.
With love and encouragement,
David.

_________________________
"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

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#71640 - 04/06/03 10:26 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5779
Loc: Lambertville, NJ USA
I agree with David. I've known several men who were survivors, got married and had children, but eventually divorced because the marriage did not "change" their homosexuality/bisexuality. In the end, they realized that they were gay.

One thing that should be discussed with your therapist is whether the same sex feelings and fantasies are related to the sexual abuse you experienced earlier in your life. Sexual orientation is a complex issue. It is not "caused" by sexual abuse, but premature sexual stimulation can create a focus or eroticization to male genitalia or other aspects connected with the abuse (i.e., attraction to older men in fathering roles).

It is a complicated issue that really can't be addressed in this forum but should be dealt with in therapy.

Ken


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#71641 - 04/06/03 04:03 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
Nathan,

FYI, I broached this subject with my T and she keeps telling me to work on my other stuff first, and that I will know when the time is right to work on this issue. OK.....I'm waiting patiently, (a year since I asked her, 15 years since I asked my wife, etc. etc. etc. )

Peace

orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#71642 - 04/06/03 04:28 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
ScottyTodd Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 1561
Loc: Pennsylvania
Nathan - I agree with ksinger's response especially that our orientation may be mixed up due to the abuse. I wrote a response to a similar question (I think it was to Sick Puppy) you may want to find it. It goes into much detail about my own confrontation with gay feelings.

One test I frequently use with others struggling with identity issues is to ask about fantasy during intercourse. Most guys in prison will engage at some time in homosexual acts. They generally fantasy about their favorite girlfriend when engaged in sex. Those who engage in gay fantasies, even when engaged in hetero- sexual intercourse, may want to explore their gay feelings.

Another test is: if you were on a desert island and you had a naked guy or naked female; who would you desire most? Test two: If you were on a deserted island and a had to chose between a naked guy and your wife, what would you do or think? Each result can lead to exploration with your T.

Hope this helped! Questions? PM me!!

Howard

_________________________
If you think you can or you can't - you're right!.......anon
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!.....anon
You're very normal for the abnormal situation you've been through..............S. Todd

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#71643 - 04/06/03 07:55 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Nathan
this question consumed me for well over 30 years, and in that time I've acted out with other men.

I've been married for 28 years, and I've used 'gay sex' as fantasy.
Whei I looked at online porn it was gay porn, I react to hetero porn in a different way, I admire the gorgeous girls - gay porn I just focus closly on the actual sex acts. The looks, shape, age and colour of the men involved are completly unimportant, it's just the dead basic sex acts. Which is all I was interested in when acting out.

The 'test' I always use is who's butt do you watch in tight jeans, the girls or the boys ?
I've always watched the girls.

Being gay is about loving another guy, the way straight men love women, I can't see any difference in that at all with my gay friends.
And I have never used them, or any other guy I know or have seen in a fantasy.

Abuse confuses us, deeply confuses us, and it took years of therapy for me to realise that I wasn't gay. And that the man on man sex I used, still use sometimes, as fantasy has nothing to do with being gay and everything to do with what I was left with by my abuse.
And having said that, I don't believe people can be made gay by homosexual sex as children.
It's deeper than that.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71644 - 04/06/03 08:11 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sum12Watch Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 15
Loc: NE
Nathan,
I am not a survivor, but a friend and family. I read your post and agree whole heartedly with Ken and Dave.
I am lucky, in the respect, that my SA discussed this early with his therapist (in fact, before the memories of the abuse came up and again afterword) and of that, he remained sure that his sexuality was not a response to the abuse, and it is my understanding from the research I have done since this all came up, that it never is. Do follow their advice and discuss this with your therapist. But most importantly, know that whatever the outcome, your sexuality is you, and either way straight or gay, you are a whole, wonderful human being.

_________________________
"Love yourself, like you want everyone to love you." - no author, just popped into my head tonight, plagarize the Golden Rule.

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#71645 - 04/12/03 11:27 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
hello all. To SUM12WATCH - Very well put. Too bad a hell of a lot of other people didn't feel this way. Bosishere \:\)


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#71646 - 04/12/03 11:43 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Nathan:

For a time after I was raped by a gay couple, right in the midst of adolescence at age 11, I had
struggles concerning my sexual orientation & identity. However I am quite heterosexual, twice married and married 23 years now.

I've had many friends & known several people who followed similar paths to my own.

It is possible that you may be married becuz you are heterosexual and that's just the way you are supposed to be.

My sexual acting out (porn) involves women not men due to my own upbringing & abuse and who knows
what other factors. My acting out doesn't mean I should be with any of those women in the pics & not my wife.

Due very possibly tho debatably to your upbringing
the particular types & the timings of the abuses you suffered, and who knows what other factors, you act out with male porn. Doesn't mean you should be with those men or any men (or women for that matter) other than your wife.

Nathan for what little bit I understand of love, I don't think that if you were gay you would love your wife.

IMHOFWIW.

Now I'm not saying that everyone who is homosexual is so becuz of CSA.

But just ask yourself what more probably came out of your CSA & issues involved: your acting out to gay porn or your love for your wife?

Take care Nathan & take it easy on yourself. Love your wife & let her love you.

Victor

_________________________
"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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#71647 - 04/13/03 07:56 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Nathan, your story could very well have been written by me except for your age. I'm 43 and have been married 15 years now. Believe it or not, I have done what you've done, very comfortably and naturally secretively, every year of my marriage.

Before meeting my wife, at age 26, I had never ever been on a date with a woman and hence, never even kissed one, let alone had sex. I also had never fantasized or even had wet dreams about sex with women. Since when I was a boy, it was always about men.

In my case, I have some extra baggage: physical abuse by my father from birth to adulthood and SA from ages 6-12 by an older cousin. I haven't yet figured out exactly what role either one of these played in my grand confusion, naturally it has given me incredibly low self-esteem.

That issue of self esteem is the thing that destroys me and causes me to fantasize in order to find some moment of peace in me. When I go downstairs after faking it with my wife (yes guys, you can fake it too), my mind goes to my safe place where I can love me by making me someone else and pretending that the object in the picture loves that vision that I've created.

As for the sex with my wife, I can't say that I like it; it's very vanilla and has always been very mechanical. Plain and simple.

So now the dilemma. I've seen in the chat room here and also in some therapy textbooks that there is a world of thought around SA, marriage and homosexuality. It seems there is this idea that if you can "find" yourself (and I won't even get started on the whole "inner child" stuff...for another post) that you will know that you really are straight and can therefore be intimate with your wife and think only of her during sex instead of some guy you saw earlier at the mall. This world of thought also seems to indicate that if you were wounded as a boy and were "programmed" to think that friendship with a male = sex, then if you developed a "healthy" true friendship with another male then you'd not have that desire any more. This one in fact, I believe, is a double edged sword just waiting to impale: if you do have a close friendship with another male, first don't you think your wife would always wonder if you really are going fishing or did you go to a hotel. Second, what if you developed this friendship and it turned to something more?

I've chatted online here with at least two other married guy about this issue. I hope they read my post and will add their comments.

One last thing, Nathan. You are young, so when you make your decision, you won't have as much destruction to deal with and you should feel lucky there. Once you go 15 years and have 3 kids, your options dwindle to zero very quickly.

God, grant us peace and wisdom.


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#71648 - 04/13/03 09:37 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Nathan, I'm so confused about my own orientation, I can't offer much to you. To both you and Jim, I don't think orientation is as black and white as some may think.

Jim,

I'm not married, never have been, so I can't address those parts of your issues. It saddens me that you're in what looks like to me an epic struggle to find meaning in your life. I'm all too aware of my inner child and that aspect of me is what's saddened.

I'm going to offer this now and will follow your post when you do it on this subject.

You keep bringing up the inner child, it must be important to you. I know what it means to have lost one's childhood, to never have gotten what one needed.

I wonder if you have had the experience(s) of holding, snuggling with, having a tender loving moment with your children. It seems you have by your previous posts.

Just as an exercise of futility (that might not be one after all), is there any way you could imagine yourself receiving those same warm nuturing feelings you've given and received from your children when you were a boy? Doing such nonsense is what inner child work is about as I'm sure you're aware.

Just another thought Jim... when we're despondent (without hope) and don't know what to do, we need to willing to try those things suggested to us - especially those things suggested by more than one source. Open your heart and your mind will follow or is it the other way around?

oh and hey man, you'll make it, give the meds a chance to work, they take time to kick in.

jer


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#71649 - 04/13/03 10:37 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Jim,

I don't know if this helps, but I don't think that people are saying you definitely are straight and just need to work out the abuse. The abuse complicates things immensely but you may be naturally gay. Through things like therapy you may be able to decide whether you really are gay or if it is just a remnant of your abuse... but a LOT of gay men, even ones who have not survived abuse, get trapped into marriages and are not sure if they are straight, so don't feel alone. It almost happened to me and it's happened to plenty people I know.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71650 - 04/13/03 06:40 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
"my mind goes to my safe place where I can love me by making me someone else and pretending that the object in the picture loves that vision that I've created"

I don't usually reply or post here with personal stuff, but this one merits attention, cuz Nathan is my bro. I have done this same thing. Numbing out. With porn, homosexual and heterosexual. After having been ignored by the wife since Christmas, some needs have gone unmet. She says a great deal of hurtful things. My skin is pretty thick after 13 years of marriage and 15 years of monogamy. I still go back to my old reply when anyone has the guts to ask me if I'm homosexual, bisexual or hetero...MONOGAMOUS is all that matters.

"This world of thought also seems to indicate that if you were wounded as a boy and were "programmed" to think that friendship with a male = sex, then if you developed a "healthy" true friendship with another male then you'd not have that desire any more. This one in fact, I believe, is a double edged sword just waiting to impale: if you do have a close friendship with another male, first don't you think your wife would always wonder if you really are going fishing or did you go to a hotel. Second, what if you developed this friendship and it turned to something more?" I know this so well...perhaps explains why I have no close male friends anymore? I used to like to believe that the wife drove them away with her nagging, but I feel equally responsible for having no friends left. Every male friend (gay or straight) I have ever had, I attempted to push the relationship past the appropriate boundaries. Even to the point of dragging my wife into it. Things are better now, in the sense that I don't bother to hang out with the guys, or the girls for that matter. Numbing out again. Hence I turn here, where the boundaries are strong, IE, broadband and a 400 mghz processor keeps me safe. But the wife don't like that either, suspects me of "acting out" and doesn't know why I spend so much time on the PC. So she wants to take that away from me too. HMMMM.

"Once you go 15 years and have 3 kids, your options dwindle to zero very quickly. "

I have three kids, and will be here for them always. YOu are correct Jim, zero options. And Zero tolerance from the wife. She gets sooooooo pissed off if she even remotely catches me checking out the girls at the mall. (Imagine if she caught me checking out anyone else...ow)

Her reality, her issues. My reality, my issues. I can't change her, or make her happy. Only she can change her, and make her happy. I can change me and make me happy. Like she says to me all the time... "WHATEVER".

Peace

Orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#71651 - 04/13/03 07:20 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I struggled with doubts about my orientation until very recently, and I've been faithfull ( with other women ) to my wife of 28 years.

I was confused to the point of acting out, and always fantasized about other men, or the sex acts between men at least. The actual 'man' never entered the fantasy.

I've known my best friend for nearly 30 years and been lucky enough to work with him for 25 of them, we have a very deep friendship with NO secrets.
We also do a filthy job repairing sewage treatment machinery so we shower daily, and if there's one shower left and it's going home time we're in there together ! He knows I've acted out with other men as well.
But I know I'm not gay - now, so does he.

It's all to do with the mind, not the sex. It's love and attraction that keeps me with my wife, and it's exactly the same for gay people.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71652 - 04/13/03 08:50 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Hopefully I don't bore you all with this story-history of what I went through, and hopefully it will mean something to everyone.

You all got me thinking on this a little because it is something I struggle with and yet I've been with Jeff for over 3 years. While that does sound a little strange, I have a hard time uttering the words that I am gay because of all the shame that I was brought up in my family with. From the churches, to the society-small town stuff to what my father used to say about gays.

And yet, I can deny it all I want every day of my life for the rest of my life, but it won't change what I am. I was abused by three males repeatedly but I don't think that made me any more gay than it would make me straight if I would have been abused by a woman. In fact, one of my first introductions to the world of sex was watching my parents have sex so one could think that if anything, I would have known much more about straight sex than I would have ever thought about gay sex. Of course I am going off on a tangent here a little as well.

But I was always able to be "friends" with the girls in school but nothing more. Other boys/guys were people that I saw differently. I was either attracted to them or I was not (and I really didn't realize this at the time). I felt less sexual being around women than I did around guys. And even though I would never admit it, I found myself constantly checking out guys in many ways.

Than as I got older, I never had girl friends like in a relationship. They just never worked out at the time for me and so I tended to be a loaner. I don't think I would have even thought about being in a gay relationship at the time considering the "home environment" that I lived in. But I always was "attracted" to guys and could be more sexually stimulated around them then I could women. And during this time, I would have never admitted it. In fact I once went to strip bars pretty regularly to keep proving to myself that I was straight.

But still thinking I was going to marry a woman because that is what I was supposed to do and what was "right" and all of that crap, I stayed by myself. It wasn't until I went to visit some friends from a support group in Florida one November that changed everything. Jeff who is my partner that I have been with for the past 3+ years was there in the group of these people. He and I had talked through emails about our abuse but never much more than that. Anyway I knew he was doing a radio show for a gay website on child abuse and I volunteered to tell my story that night. Of course I was scared that if I went to this place of the gay website of what would happen to me. And it turned out that it was nothing like what I feared in my mind.

Anyway getting on to Jeff and I. That night he had no where to stay so I let him stay with me. Things were happening that later I found out they were just meant to happen. We talked for a long time and when it was late in the morning, we knew we had to go to bed. I didn't want to see him sleep on a fold out couch and since the bed I had was huge, I invited him to share the bed. Keep in mind, I did not consider myself to be gay or anything. But I felt very safe around Jeff and there was an attraction physically, sexually and otherwise. But I wouldn't have admitted to that if you paid me a million dollars. Deep down I knew it was there though.

Well one thing led to another and when the morning came, we didn't want to leave each other's arms. We felt so safe, so protected, so loved... I could go on and on. It came time to leave, and I cried because I didn't want our time to end. However I had to go back home which was in the midwest at the time.

By the time I got back home, my world had been turned upside down and the one thing I knew was that I wanted to be with Jeff. Jeff of course had just come out of a relationship and wasn't ready to jump back in that quickly. So it took some time, some flights back down to see him before he started to really trust me in that I had pure motives about myself. We just felt so together when we were with each other and we both hated it when we were apart. It wasn't long before I moved to where he lived and well that was a little over 3 years ago.

At first I could not tell Jeff I loved him because the word "love" was one that meant nothing more than pain and hurt and betrayal to me. That's another story, too long for this post. And neither of us could even say we were gay, so we decieded that we would classify ourselves as two guys who just enjoyed each other so much and wanted to be with each other. If that ain't watering down the word "gay", I don't know what is. But it is all we could come up with at that point. Recently, I have been able to tell some people that I am gay and we are a couple. But I am so afraid of rejection and lightning bolts that it makes this very tough for me. A lot of people that know me, do not know that I am gay. And for the first time the other night, I was actually able to tell Jeff the words, "I love you"... that is a big healing step for me.

We've now been together for 3+ years and in that time, we have grown personally and together as well. We are both stronger because of our relationship. I never ever thought I would spend this much time with anyone in my life or even want to continue until I met Jeff. I can't imagine my life without him now and even though it is not readily accepted in society, I would not give him up without a fight. He means so much to me in so many ways. My life is far better for having him in it.

At one time it really bothered me that I would never have the traditional family with kids, but more and more, that is not becoming an issue with me. I am happy with Jeff. I feel accepted and loved by him. And that is much more than I have ever had in life or ever thought I would.

There is a lot that I didn't say here but I hope this will help people a little. It isn't easy being gay and being a survivor in this world. It is very tough. But for myself and for Jeff, we have had some of the best times in our life together.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71653 - 04/14/03 05:29 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Lloydy- it sounds like from your point of view :

"It's all to do with the mind, not the sex. It's love and attraction that keeps me with my wife, and it's exactly the same for gay people."

Therefore, if it has everything to do with the mind then all those of us who find ourselves in a marriage where we only think/want sex and affection and love from men rather than women just have to work on our minds.

Clearly it must be in our misguided, twisted minds only and by getting hypnotherapy or shock therapy or something to wash our minds of this filth is all it takes to get us onto the straight and narrow and completely feel the love and attraction to our wives.

So if I get it correctly from your point of view, love and attraction will keep me with my wife, no matter what?


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#71654 - 04/14/03 07:40 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Jim...

Not to say that this is definitely the case, but you may just be gay, plain and simple, and if that's how it is then nothing is going to make you happy with your wife. It is your choice whether to stay with her and be unhappy, yet keep your family intact, or to leave her and find someone to make you happy at the risk of upsetting her. I would, however, explore the issue in therapy first to make sure that you really are gay and that the feelings are not just caused by the abuse.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71655 - 04/15/03 04:18 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
bisulatino Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 70
Loc: San Diego, CA
Nathan,

I'm 20 and my perp was an older male cousin. I too have strong homosexual feelings, stronger perhaps than my feelings for women. For me, watching gay porn is both acting out and numbing out. I do it when I'm stressed, nervous or depressed. I think that you'll definately need to talk to your therapist about it, but don't be scared of your sexuality. Gay, straight and everything else are just words to group people together but we're all different. Don't think about your sexuality in terms of gay or straight, thinks about it in terms of what you want and need, what makes you feel healthy and happy. Talk to your T about your sexuality in this context.

I personally am still pondering my sexuality and am unsure what exactly I am. With help from your T, you'll be able to figure out your own sexuality and that will make you feel more secure in your relationships. Until then, think deeply about important decisions and decide on the choice that you think is honestly the best one for yourself and that you have no doubts about. We are both around the same age and have a lot to learn about ourselves. Don't be scared of learning about yourself, and remember that there are other guys like you going through similar stuff.


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#71656 - 04/15/03 07:02 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jim
I think what you say is important

Quote:
Therefore, if it has everything to do with the mind then all those of us who find ourselves in a marriage where we only think/want sex and affection and love from men rather than women just have to work on our minds.
If you are seking sex and AFFECTION AND LOVE from men, then maybe there is an issue that needs exploring, preferably with a therapist.

My confusion was deep rooted and seemed very real at the time, but during thereapy I realised that although I craved some sex acts with men, and did them, I had no feelings towards any man I saw or knew other than friendship. I just didn't fancy men.

And although I have had gay friends for a long while and considered myself very cool with the idea of others being gay sometimes the stereotypes were deeper rooted within me than I ever realised, and it's only when I read posts like Don's, and others here, that the full reality hit's home. These are normal people who are deeply in love with each other.
Yes there are promiscuous people around who like sex and just get it on, and orientation doesn't matter there either, there are gay and hetero promiscuous people.

What I did was nothing to do with any of those groups at all, my acting out - and the near constant fantasizing about it - was nothing more than a legacy of the abuse I endured.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71657 - 04/15/03 07:17 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Yup, Lloydy is very right. Although I am on the other side of the issue, everything he is saying is quite insightful and correct. If you're only desiring SEX with other men then it may just be a way to act out because of the abuse. If you desire things like affection and love from other men, in a romantic context, then there is very likely something else there that is not related to your abuse but an issue of basic sexuality. It is all very complicated stuff, though, and for us survivors it is complicated even further. \:\(

I would say please don't discount the possibility that you are just plain and simply gay. If it is just a basic fact and not a feeling caused by your abuse, then you will probably not find happiness in denying it and sticking with your wife...

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And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71658 - 04/18/03 12:38 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Gentle_Spirit Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 3
Loc: Oakland, California
You ask a very interesting question. Perhaps another question is could I be "Bi-sexual?" For myself, I know that I am 100 percent Gay. I have never touched a woman, never wanted to, and never will. I think the question that you're asking is what am I most comfortable defining myself to be? Another question is what are my emotional and sexual needs? Who can best meet my needs, a man or a woman? Always remember that regardless if you're Gay, Straight, or Bi, it's always okay to be who you are. A good part of life is acceptable ourselves for who we are with all our gifts and limitations.


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#71659 - 04/19/03 12:39 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
bosishere Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/14/01
Posts: 161
Loc: nashville,tn,usa
Gentle Spriit- very well put. During a 8 and 1/2 week stay in a psych hospitl here, I came up with the saying that I tell others - "I am what I am, please understand me." I am just under 60 years old, and I have only been sexual with a woman TWICE in my life. So keeping the saying in mind, if people cannot accept me as I am, then to hell with them, it is there loss. Bos ;\)


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#71660 - 05/19/03 09:21 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Donald,
Do you, for your own peace and contentment with life, ever get out of your head?
jer


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#71661 - 05/20/03 02:39 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Don-NY Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY


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If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

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#71662 - 05/20/03 08:33 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Donald! If you ever learn how to turn the mind off when it is always going at top speed, plese let me know. It is driving me mad! Just for a day. It would be so great.

Bob

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If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#71663 - 05/20/03 09:57 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Nathan LaChine Offline
Webmaster
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 5378
Loc: Washington State
Everyone,


Since I have been here this question was a big issue to me. I needed to know if I was gay. I know have learned something that I wanted to share with my brothers. In the end does it matter if I am straight, gay, bi....... Hello no. In the end it only matters that I am happy with who I am. I will live my life the way that I want to and be happy everyday. So in the end it does not really matter if I am gay it only matters if I am happy. I hope that this thread does help other brothers that are dealing with the same issues.


Lots of love, Nathan


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#71664 - 05/21/03 12:26 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Nathan, young friend!

You have a good point here. It is really important to like/love who we are.

But, I also think you will agree that if a man is gay and married and is unable to have sex with his wife, her happiness may be impaired a great deal. For some this may not be true, but each situation needs to be judged by those involved and they can settle it for themselves.

Maybe we all need to be happy ourselves but not at the expense of people we are committed to, whether that is a wife or a partner.

Our sexual orientation should lead to our daily happiness. But, unfortunately, the ignorance and homophobia of far, far, too many men, makes it seem that only one orientation is ok and should be enjoyed.
For our guys here who are gay, I feel that I need to fight against the ignorance. That makes some people unhappy--but the ignorance makes lots of people suffer and that is abusive.

Enjoy Nathan!

Bob

_________________________
If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

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#71665 - 05/21/03 12:27 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Wuamei Offline
Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
Quote:
Everyone,

Since I have been here this question was a big issue to me. I needed to know if I was gay. I know have learned something that I wanted to share with my brothers. In the end does it matter if I am straight, gay, bi....... Hello no. In the end it only matters that I am happy with who I am. I will live my life the way that I want to and be happy everyday. So in the end it does not really matter if I am gay it only matters if I am happy. I hope that this thread does help other brothers that are dealing with the same issues.

Lots of love, Nathan
Nathan well put young wolf pup! Sounds to me you've come to a good conclusion for yourself concerning this, hopefully for your wife too. I'm sure this thread has probably helped a lot of people. Thanks for sharing it with us, and for sharing yourself with us bro. TC & TTYL.

Victor

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"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

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