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#71648 - 04/13/03 09:37 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
guy43 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Nathan, I'm so confused about my own orientation, I can't offer much to you. To both you and Jim, I don't think orientation is as black and white as some may think.

Jim,

I'm not married, never have been, so I can't address those parts of your issues. It saddens me that you're in what looks like to me an epic struggle to find meaning in your life. I'm all too aware of my inner child and that aspect of me is what's saddened.

I'm going to offer this now and will follow your post when you do it on this subject.

You keep bringing up the inner child, it must be important to you. I know what it means to have lost one's childhood, to never have gotten what one needed.

I wonder if you have had the experience(s) of holding, snuggling with, having a tender loving moment with your children. It seems you have by your previous posts.

Just as an exercise of futility (that might not be one after all), is there any way you could imagine yourself receiving those same warm nuturing feelings you've given and received from your children when you were a boy? Doing such nonsense is what inner child work is about as I'm sure you're aware.

Just another thought Jim... when we're despondent (without hope) and don't know what to do, we need to willing to try those things suggested to us - especially those things suggested by more than one source. Open your heart and your mind will follow or is it the other way around?

oh and hey man, you'll make it, give the meds a chance to work, they take time to kick in.

jer


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#71649 - 04/13/03 10:37 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Jim,

I don't know if this helps, but I don't think that people are saying you definitely are straight and just need to work out the abuse. The abuse complicates things immensely but you may be naturally gay. Through things like therapy you may be able to decide whether you really are gay or if it is just a remnant of your abuse... but a LOT of gay men, even ones who have not survived abuse, get trapped into marriages and are not sure if they are straight, so don't feel alone. It almost happened to me and it's happened to plenty people I know.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71650 - 04/13/03 06:40 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
orodo Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/15/02
Posts: 735
Loc: Imladris, The Safe Haven of Ar...
"my mind goes to my safe place where I can love me by making me someone else and pretending that the object in the picture loves that vision that I've created"

I don't usually reply or post here with personal stuff, but this one merits attention, cuz Nathan is my bro. I have done this same thing. Numbing out. With porn, homosexual and heterosexual. After having been ignored by the wife since Christmas, some needs have gone unmet. She says a great deal of hurtful things. My skin is pretty thick after 13 years of marriage and 15 years of monogamy. I still go back to my old reply when anyone has the guts to ask me if I'm homosexual, bisexual or hetero...MONOGAMOUS is all that matters.

"This world of thought also seems to indicate that if you were wounded as a boy and were "programmed" to think that friendship with a male = sex, then if you developed a "healthy" true friendship with another male then you'd not have that desire any more. This one in fact, I believe, is a double edged sword just waiting to impale: if you do have a close friendship with another male, first don't you think your wife would always wonder if you really are going fishing or did you go to a hotel. Second, what if you developed this friendship and it turned to something more?" I know this so well...perhaps explains why I have no close male friends anymore? I used to like to believe that the wife drove them away with her nagging, but I feel equally responsible for having no friends left. Every male friend (gay or straight) I have ever had, I attempted to push the relationship past the appropriate boundaries. Even to the point of dragging my wife into it. Things are better now, in the sense that I don't bother to hang out with the guys, or the girls for that matter. Numbing out again. Hence I turn here, where the boundaries are strong, IE, broadband and a 400 mghz processor keeps me safe. But the wife don't like that either, suspects me of "acting out" and doesn't know why I spend so much time on the PC. So she wants to take that away from me too. HMMMM.

"Once you go 15 years and have 3 kids, your options dwindle to zero very quickly. "

I have three kids, and will be here for them always. YOu are correct Jim, zero options. And Zero tolerance from the wife. She gets sooooooo pissed off if she even remotely catches me checking out the girls at the mall. (Imagine if she caught me checking out anyone else...ow)

Her reality, her issues. My reality, my issues. I can't change her, or make her happy. Only she can change her, and make her happy. I can change me and make me happy. Like she says to me all the time... "WHATEVER".

Peace

Orodo

_________________________
It is better to be Dragon Master than Dragon Slayer. Some Dragons are meant to be mastered, others meant to be slain. Odin, Great Spirit, God, grant me the wisdom to know the difference. "May the Valar guide and bless you on your path under the sky"

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#71651 - 04/13/03 07:20 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I struggled with doubts about my orientation until very recently, and I've been faithfull ( with other women ) to my wife of 28 years.

I was confused to the point of acting out, and always fantasized about other men, or the sex acts between men at least. The actual 'man' never entered the fantasy.

I've known my best friend for nearly 30 years and been lucky enough to work with him for 25 of them, we have a very deep friendship with NO secrets.
We also do a filthy job repairing sewage treatment machinery so we shower daily, and if there's one shower left and it's going home time we're in there together ! He knows I've acted out with other men as well.
But I know I'm not gay - now, so does he.

It's all to do with the mind, not the sex. It's love and attraction that keeps me with my wife, and it's exactly the same for gay people.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71652 - 04/13/03 08:50 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
MrDon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/08/01
Posts: 957
Loc: Deltona, FL
Hopefully I don't bore you all with this story-history of what I went through, and hopefully it will mean something to everyone.

You all got me thinking on this a little because it is something I struggle with and yet I've been with Jeff for over 3 years. While that does sound a little strange, I have a hard time uttering the words that I am gay because of all the shame that I was brought up in my family with. From the churches, to the society-small town stuff to what my father used to say about gays.

And yet, I can deny it all I want every day of my life for the rest of my life, but it won't change what I am. I was abused by three males repeatedly but I don't think that made me any more gay than it would make me straight if I would have been abused by a woman. In fact, one of my first introductions to the world of sex was watching my parents have sex so one could think that if anything, I would have known much more about straight sex than I would have ever thought about gay sex. Of course I am going off on a tangent here a little as well.

But I was always able to be "friends" with the girls in school but nothing more. Other boys/guys were people that I saw differently. I was either attracted to them or I was not (and I really didn't realize this at the time). I felt less sexual being around women than I did around guys. And even though I would never admit it, I found myself constantly checking out guys in many ways.

Than as I got older, I never had girl friends like in a relationship. They just never worked out at the time for me and so I tended to be a loaner. I don't think I would have even thought about being in a gay relationship at the time considering the "home environment" that I lived in. But I always was "attracted" to guys and could be more sexually stimulated around them then I could women. And during this time, I would have never admitted it. In fact I once went to strip bars pretty regularly to keep proving to myself that I was straight.

But still thinking I was going to marry a woman because that is what I was supposed to do and what was "right" and all of that crap, I stayed by myself. It wasn't until I went to visit some friends from a support group in Florida one November that changed everything. Jeff who is my partner that I have been with for the past 3+ years was there in the group of these people. He and I had talked through emails about our abuse but never much more than that. Anyway I knew he was doing a radio show for a gay website on child abuse and I volunteered to tell my story that night. Of course I was scared that if I went to this place of the gay website of what would happen to me. And it turned out that it was nothing like what I feared in my mind.

Anyway getting on to Jeff and I. That night he had no where to stay so I let him stay with me. Things were happening that later I found out they were just meant to happen. We talked for a long time and when it was late in the morning, we knew we had to go to bed. I didn't want to see him sleep on a fold out couch and since the bed I had was huge, I invited him to share the bed. Keep in mind, I did not consider myself to be gay or anything. But I felt very safe around Jeff and there was an attraction physically, sexually and otherwise. But I wouldn't have admitted to that if you paid me a million dollars. Deep down I knew it was there though.

Well one thing led to another and when the morning came, we didn't want to leave each other's arms. We felt so safe, so protected, so loved... I could go on and on. It came time to leave, and I cried because I didn't want our time to end. However I had to go back home which was in the midwest at the time.

By the time I got back home, my world had been turned upside down and the one thing I knew was that I wanted to be with Jeff. Jeff of course had just come out of a relationship and wasn't ready to jump back in that quickly. So it took some time, some flights back down to see him before he started to really trust me in that I had pure motives about myself. We just felt so together when we were with each other and we both hated it when we were apart. It wasn't long before I moved to where he lived and well that was a little over 3 years ago.

At first I could not tell Jeff I loved him because the word "love" was one that meant nothing more than pain and hurt and betrayal to me. That's another story, too long for this post. And neither of us could even say we were gay, so we decieded that we would classify ourselves as two guys who just enjoyed each other so much and wanted to be with each other. If that ain't watering down the word "gay", I don't know what is. But it is all we could come up with at that point. Recently, I have been able to tell some people that I am gay and we are a couple. But I am so afraid of rejection and lightning bolts that it makes this very tough for me. A lot of people that know me, do not know that I am gay. And for the first time the other night, I was actually able to tell Jeff the words, "I love you"... that is a big healing step for me.

We've now been together for 3+ years and in that time, we have grown personally and together as well. We are both stronger because of our relationship. I never ever thought I would spend this much time with anyone in my life or even want to continue until I met Jeff. I can't imagine my life without him now and even though it is not readily accepted in society, I would not give him up without a fight. He means so much to me in so many ways. My life is far better for having him in it.

At one time it really bothered me that I would never have the traditional family with kids, but more and more, that is not becoming an issue with me. I am happy with Jeff. I feel accepted and loved by him. And that is much more than I have ever had in life or ever thought I would.

There is a lot that I didn't say here but I hope this will help people a little. It isn't easy being gay and being a survivor in this world. It is very tough. But for myself and for Jeff, we have had some of the best times in our life together.

Don

_________________________
In order to journey to new worlds, we must first be willing to lose site of the shore.

The Mind Body Thoughts Blog
http://mindbodythoughts.blogspot.com/

Check out my relaxing piano music from the heart!
http://www.donshetterly.com

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#71653 - 04/14/03 05:29 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
jimrh Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Lloydy- it sounds like from your point of view :

"It's all to do with the mind, not the sex. It's love and attraction that keeps me with my wife, and it's exactly the same for gay people."

Therefore, if it has everything to do with the mind then all those of us who find ourselves in a marriage where we only think/want sex and affection and love from men rather than women just have to work on our minds.

Clearly it must be in our misguided, twisted minds only and by getting hypnotherapy or shock therapy or something to wash our minds of this filth is all it takes to get us onto the straight and narrow and completely feel the love and attraction to our wives.

So if I get it correctly from your point of view, love and attraction will keep me with my wife, no matter what?


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#71654 - 04/14/03 07:40 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Jim...

Not to say that this is definitely the case, but you may just be gay, plain and simple, and if that's how it is then nothing is going to make you happy with your wife. It is your choice whether to stay with her and be unhappy, yet keep your family intact, or to leave her and find someone to make you happy at the risk of upsetting her. I would, however, explore the issue in therapy first to make sure that you really are gay and that the feelings are not just caused by the abuse.

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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#71655 - 04/15/03 04:18 AM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
bisulatino Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 70
Loc: San Diego, CA
Nathan,

I'm 20 and my perp was an older male cousin. I too have strong homosexual feelings, stronger perhaps than my feelings for women. For me, watching gay porn is both acting out and numbing out. I do it when I'm stressed, nervous or depressed. I think that you'll definately need to talk to your therapist about it, but don't be scared of your sexuality. Gay, straight and everything else are just words to group people together but we're all different. Don't think about your sexuality in terms of gay or straight, thinks about it in terms of what you want and need, what makes you feel healthy and happy. Talk to your T about your sexuality in this context.

I personally am still pondering my sexuality and am unsure what exactly I am. With help from your T, you'll be able to figure out your own sexuality and that will make you feel more secure in your relationships. Until then, think deeply about important decisions and decide on the choice that you think is honestly the best one for yourself and that you have no doubts about. We are both around the same age and have a lot to learn about ourselves. Don't be scared of learning about yourself, and remember that there are other guys like you going through similar stuff.


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#71656 - 04/15/03 07:02 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Jim
I think what you say is important

Quote:
Therefore, if it has everything to do with the mind then all those of us who find ourselves in a marriage where we only think/want sex and affection and love from men rather than women just have to work on our minds.
If you are seking sex and AFFECTION AND LOVE from men, then maybe there is an issue that needs exploring, preferably with a therapist.

My confusion was deep rooted and seemed very real at the time, but during thereapy I realised that although I craved some sex acts with men, and did them, I had no feelings towards any man I saw or knew other than friendship. I just didn't fancy men.

And although I have had gay friends for a long while and considered myself very cool with the idea of others being gay sometimes the stereotypes were deeper rooted within me than I ever realised, and it's only when I read posts like Don's, and others here, that the full reality hit's home. These are normal people who are deeply in love with each other.
Yes there are promiscuous people around who like sex and just get it on, and orientation doesn't matter there either, there are gay and hetero promiscuous people.

What I did was nothing to do with any of those groups at all, my acting out - and the near constant fantasizing about it - was nothing more than a legacy of the abuse I endured.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#71657 - 04/15/03 07:17 PM Re: Am I gay (possiable trigger)
Sick Puppy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/30/03
Posts: 300
Loc: Nowhere Land
Yup, Lloydy is very right. Although I am on the other side of the issue, everything he is saying is quite insightful and correct. If you're only desiring SEX with other men then it may just be a way to act out because of the abuse. If you desire things like affection and love from other men, in a romantic context, then there is very likely something else there that is not related to your abuse but an issue of basic sexuality. It is all very complicated stuff, though, and for us survivors it is complicated even further. \:\(

I would say please don't discount the possibility that you are just plain and simply gay. If it is just a basic fact and not a feeling caused by your abuse, then you will probably not find happiness in denying it and sticking with your wife...

_________________________
And one day we will die
And our ashes will fly
From the aeroplane over the sea
But for now we are young
Let us lay in the sun
And count every beautiful thing we can see


Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea

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